VOGONS


First post, by TheAdmiralty

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Howdy!

For the first time in a long time, I've actually finished building a system past it being a pile of parts on a test bench. Since everyone likes pictures:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/jw4uu3yo9fl8rn2/DSC_0084(2).JPG
http://www.mediafire.com/view/njusjoqmnsqlp8z/DSC_0085(2).JPG
http://www.mediafire.com/view/5r9nhmw88g25h3j/DSC_0086(2).JPG

...The pictures don't really show much, but I'll blame that on the fact that they were taken from 10 feet, standing on a swivel chair, using a DSLR with a really ill-matched zoom lens. Not really meant for close-up pictures of a computer... I'll take some better pics soon enough when I get my other lens back. 🤣

Anyway, the system itself is in a brand new ATX desktop case with an also new Antec EarthWatts 380... those two things cost as much as the rest of the system. Under that little black heatsink is a Pentium-MMX at 200Mhz (SL27J), on an FIC PA-2011 motherboard. 256MB of SDRAM.

From top to bottom, the expansion cards are as follows:
S3 Virge/GX 4MB (STB Nitro3D)
Creative SB Audigy SB0090
3Com Fast Etherlink 10/100 PCI
US Robotics (3Com) 56K Fax/Modem
Creative SB AWE32 CT3990 +8MB

The video card is likely to change to something a bit faster and less period-correct; the GeForce FX5200 I have seems a bit too far ahead, but is pretty much the next step-up in my inventory ATM. I'm hoping to get that Audigy set up to output MIDI done on the AWE32, or at the very least, use its microphone jack as a passthrough from the AWE32's line-out; the CT3990 may be my favorite sound card of all time, but with a pair of sensitive Shure SRH-940s, the noise floor is... well... substantial.

The HDD is a Quantum Bigfoot, 2.5GB. I know the drive itself works without issue, as it came to me with the owner's contents completely intact and functional; the one thing about Win9x is that you can pretty much put any HDD into any system and it will find a way to function just fine. Well, I immediately started formatting it to put my own Win98SE on it, and FORMAT is currently trudging through what appears to be a huge chunk of bad sectors, as it's "trying to recover allocation unit 5xx,xxx". The thing sounds awesome nonetheless, and isn't that what counts the most? 😀

If this were your system, what would you change about it? What would you do with it? Now that I've finished this thing, I'm not exactly sure what I want to do with it... I didn't really think that far ahead. I might buy an ISA ethernet card, move the Audigy down a slot, and put two Voodoo2's in there. I'd really like to get a 5.25" floppy drive and controller card just for the hell of it, but I just can't shake the feeling that it'll end up dead as a brick within a few years anyway... they seem to be hitting the end of their functional shelf lives just about now. I guess it kinda follows the same logic as my wishing I had an amber-monochrome CRT.

Just thought I'd share my progress here... I'm sure someone out there would enjoy seeing a nice chunk of old hardware as much as myself. Feel free to comment... I'll be sure to keep you updated once I get everything set up!

He took out his hip flask when he reached the page that described how he reached the page that made him take out his hip flask.

Reply 1 of 12, by badmojo

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I'd swap out the S3 for a Matrox card and put 1 (not 2!) Voodoo2's in there, I'd also take out the Fax/Modem and hang it on my wall instead. I'd change the Audigy for a Live! too.

Very nice system though, I really like that case. Any reason you didn't go for a 233MHz over the 200? And for that matter, any reason you didn't go PII or III?

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 2 of 12, by TheAdmiralty

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It's funny you should mention that... my original plans were to use a Matrox G450. I ordered one from eBay; they ended up shipping an AGP card to me, and told me to keep it since they sent me the wrong item. Got a free AGP G450 out of that. Second attempt came from PCLiquidations (awesome store, btw) - I was told after I put in the order that they had run out of stock, and so gave me a free 'upgrade' to the PCI FX5200 I have now. Maybe the third attempt will get it right. 😀

As for the MMX-200, I ended up getting it for $1.99 in a deal with two Slot-1 Pentium III's (500 and 850Mhz, Katmai and Coppermine); I might toss $8 into a 233 if I find one with free shipping, but it's not an urgent issue at the moment. I actually have a nice Slot-1 AOpen AX6BC, but it's never quite worked right; USB devices randomly drop, memory problems, IDE controller problems... it just has a lot of random issues that rear their heads often enough to make it not worth using. I got a good deal on the PA-2011 I'm using right now; $15+shipping for the motherboard, as-new in its original box with all the original contents still with it. I've just always liked the first generations of Pentiums for some reason.

The case is quite nice; it isn't designed for large ATX boards like the PA-2011, as a 3.5" HDD will hang over the board an inch or so, though this won't hurt anything as long as you don't have any vertical I/O in that area; being made out of 1mm steel, the thing feels like a brick. Also, no front panel I/O was actually a plus in this case, as I couldn't really make use of it anyway. Now all I need is an original metal "Pentium with MMX Inside" case badge for the front. 😀

UPDATE: The Audigy didn't want to work; the hardware wasn't being detected at all, and when I unpacked+installed the drivers myself, the card itself wasn't working the way it should. I pulled it and put in an SB Live! Value CT4670 I've had laying around; it did seem to work, but with both of these cards, the AWE32 was "Unable to load synthgm.sbk due to a read error" - The cards were fighting each other for resources, and the AWE32 was getting the shaft of it. I've decided to just use the AWE32 by itself to avoid the headache.

He took out his hip flask when he reached the page that described how he reached the page that made him take out his hip flask.

Reply 3 of 12, by Logistics

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The live is known for problems caused by bus mastering issues. Technically, the Live! and Audigy or similar cards all have a PII-350, or there-abouts, as a system requirement. Are you running ACPI in 98SE? I don't even remember how it worked in 98SE... been so long.

If it were my system, I would probably put that hard drive in another system as a secondary, use MBRWizard to completely clear the drive, use a utility to low-level format it, then start over and see if it still finds bad sectors.

Reply 4 of 12, by RacoonRider

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Nice setup! If I were you, I would go with a Matrox card from around 1997. I would also swap Audigy to SB Live! or just use the CT3990. Intel chip sets are considered to have better memory performance, however VIA compensates with cacheable range. Modem is worth throwing out. A Voodoo card is a must, for this system Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo 2 are both good. However, Voodoo 2 and SLI show their full potential with a much faster CPU.

Logistics, I haven't had issues running Live! with P233MMX. However, there is a minor problem I haven't sorted out. During hot reboot, it takes forever to POST. I don't know if these two are connected, I just use cold reboot whenever I need to.

Reply 5 of 12, by mockingbird

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Is there any advantage in using a S7 platform where you're stuck with a PCI Voodoo2? The Voodoo3 AGP is keyed for AGP 3.3V, so why not use SS7 if you need Glide?

Reply 6 of 12, by Logistics

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RacoonRider wrote:

Logistics, I haven't had issues running Live! with P233MMX.

I never had problems with mine, either but if you look around, they are known for their bus-mastering issue. Even when I did ACPI installs in XP, I didn't have troubles, but I predominantly did no ACPI installs to improve performance/responsiveness in XP so I always loved my Live! value.

Reply 7 of 12, by bjt

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Nicely put together system, Bigfoot HDDs are cool. What do to next - play some games 😀

Reply 8 of 12, by DNSDies

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Seconding the Voodoo card recommendation.
I'd put in a Voodoo3 3000 PCI though.
Glide API is great.

Reply 10 of 12, by zstandig

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Bigfoot drives are cool. I have 2 of them myself. Apparently at the time they were made a physically larger drive was somehow more economical...

Anyway, I was shocked the first time I saw one, was not expecting it when I opened that case up.

Reply 11 of 12, by Stiletto

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zstandig wrote:

Bigfoot drives are cool. I have 2 of them myself. Apparently at the time they were made a physically larger drive was somehow more economical...

Anyway, I was shocked the first time I saw one, was not expecting it when I opened that case up.

We used to use a dead one as a hammer where I worked once. 😁

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 12 of 12, by TheAdmiralty

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Welp, sorry for the long wait; I've been swamped with school work this week. Lots of updates, though.

First of all, the AWE32's Synth problems weren't caused by anything even remotely related to the other hardware; apparently, the SIMM30s I've installed on it are warped or misaligned just enough that they're easy to knock out of contact... every time I get the read error in synthgm.sbk, it's because the card is trying to read from the memory which isn't acting the way it should, stopping the onboard 1MB ROM from loading fully. That problem's been solved.

I'll tell you more about the ACPI situation if needed; I've let everything set itself to whatever default settings are used in both BIOS and Win98 (excluding IDE setup and the likes) - there don't appear to be any problems related to it, so I've never really looked into the matter.

Yep, Bigfoot drives are cool - at the time they were made, it was more cost effective to use a larger, lower-density platter than a small high-density one, at least in the early models like what I have; in the late model Bigfoots (bigfeet?), Quantum forgot about this and used platters which were both large and high-density. It made for one helluva hard drive at the time, but they lost the price/performance edge and the Bigfoot series basically died out at that point. At least, that's how I understand things.

I'm on the lookout for a 12MB Voodoo2 - I've always liked both those those cards... I'd rather pick up that Matrox G450 than a Voodoo3, mostly because of the price difference.

Something fun to try: recording stereo mix with Audacity on a Pentium-200. I thought it might be fun to see if this box would even load Audacity in the first place... surely enough, it sputtered up and could barely keep up with the interface, let alone recording... I set everything to 16-bit/32000 (it couldnt handle and fired up the EMU8K... Audacity would refresh itself maybe once every ten seconds, but surely enough, I ended up with a flawless recording. I don't know how anything in this system could keep up - the HDD, the CPU, hell, even the Virge was doing funny things with the menu buttons, but once the dust settled, here's what I ended up with once I figured out how to cache the recording to memory instead of the ever-so-fast Bigfoot:
Rise of the Triad - Goin' the Fast Way Down
<EDIT: Failed at uploading the rest of what I recorded; I'll post it here in the morning. I'm done for tonight.>
...The GUS can kiss it. That's using what I believe to be the SB Live's 8MBGMSFX.SF2 soundfont; I learned that Audacity won't hesitate to devour all of your memory if you forget to stop recording; I'll put up specific songs by request... It's almost 1:00 and that's all I had the patience to record after setting up Audacity in the first place and finding a way to get the files from said computer onto my laptop... thankfully ADATA made a Win98 driver for their 16GB USB3.0 flash drive. Huh. Either way, it sounds a whole lot better than line-out into my mic jack. 😀

And, more pictures as promised:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a488/ifxwv2ac7xnpv1n6g.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/e94f/epf13w4kgb3idue6g.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/bdbc/aptkgggqb9o784k6g.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9206/4l6n00udn0ddidf6g.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ae61/0yp35688iizukhq6g.jpg
They really didn't turn out as well as I'd have liked, but I live in a cement block dorm at the moment with as much lighting as a typical cave.

More to come shortly!

He took out his hip flask when he reached the page that described how he reached the page that made him take out his hip flask.