VOGONS


Voodoo 2 tests?

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Reply 20 of 50, by Stiletto

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FeedingDragon wrote:

Wrapper is probably the wrong term. For games that use it, I was hoping that a replacement GLIDE2X.OVL was available that would access other cards instead. From what I understand, Creative Labs had one such for their NVidia based cards, but had to remove it when 3DFX sued them. Since NVidia bought out 3DFX, I was hopeful that they had one, but they don't

You are talking about "Unified" - and you're wrong, it is only a normal Windows wrapper, one of the many predecessors of projects like OpenGlide and nGlide and dgVoodoo. I don't believe it comes near DOS .OVL at all, it's merely for Windows games.
Download:
http://krick.3feetunder.com/creative-unified-3dfx-glide/
http://unified.chat.ru/

Commentary:
Glide Wrapper for Nvidia Cards!
http://www.sysopt.com/showthread.php?46485-Cr … lide-Wrapper%29
http://www.glideunderground.com/modules.php?o … owcontent&id=23
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1038556
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/3dfx-sues-cr … s/1100-2460636/
http://slashdot.org/story/99/06/11/1830242/3d … labs-over-glide

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 21 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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Stiletto wrote:

You are talking about "Unified" - and you're wrong, it is only a normal Windows wrapper, one of the many predecessors of projects like OpenGlide and nGlide and dgVoodoo. I don't believe it comes near DOS .OVL at all, it's merely for Windows games.

Ah, so that's what it was called. Came across 1 brief comment about CL being sued over Glide issues on another forum's old post asking for exactly what I was looking for (a replacement GLIDE2X.OVL file for TNT2 cards.) Didn't find anything else about it except references to old articles about the law suit. Only scanned the first couple of those, stopped when they weren't give details about the "driver" involved.

Thanks, that eliminates that as a possibility.

On a side note: Got it "partially" working on Tomb Raider in DOS. Remembered there was an environment variable to dump debug information to a text file and thought I'd give that a try. While setting that up, also came across PCI adjustment variables, and decide to experiment with those as well. The first experiment was to set SSTV2_FASTPCIRD=0 and the game loaded up, went to the menu (was getting that with the 3.01.01 driver file - one generation back from last.) Only this time, when I started the "training" session (where I go for testing, it's faster,) it loaded right up. I ran around the house for a bit. Only, when I exited to go back to the menu, all I got was the last scene of the entering house video, and it locked up at that point instead. I thought of this because of the card's functioning at slower CPU speeds (on the first MB.) And thought maybe the speed of PCI accessing was the issue. Going to read through the debug file and see if there's other things that might help. If I can get it working, maybe looking at what is necessary can point to exactly what/where the problem is.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 22 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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I spoke to soon 🙁

It worked once. I haven't gotten it to work again yet. The debug file doesn't seem to list any errors. However, it also doesn't seem to change any regardless of what I do, where it locks up, which version of GLIDE2X.OVL I use. Checked by renaming the dump file each time and doing a non-binary file compare (fc debug.txt debug2.txt, etc...)

Feeding Dragon

Reply 23 of 50, by Gamecollector

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If you want to test Voodoo card in DOS - download this and use tests from SDK\Glide2x\Bin\DOS folder.
P.S. you need DOS/4GW in the same directory. Google is your friend.

Asus P4P800 SE/Pentium4 3.2E/2 Gb DDR400B,
Radeon HD3850 Agp (Sapphire), Catalyst 14.4 (XpProSp3).
Voodoo2 12 MB SLI, Win2k drivers 1.02.00 (XpProSp3).

Reply 24 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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Was running those tests with varied success, and the 2 different OVL files I had at the time. Decided to try the other versions available. On one of my searches, there was mention that v2.50 was the most compatible, so I switch to that one first. More of the tests succeeded, and I noticed that I was not finally getting debug information like I had been wanting. So I decided to try and run Tomb Raider again. Yippeee, though it failed it gave me a page full of info, which I'm afraid I don't completely understand (pic provided.)

1210-131649.jpg

file.php?id=15812

The other card, at first wouldn't display the text long before the video shuts off. The first time I got Laura's "Welcome to my home, let me show you around" audio, but it never continued and the system locked up. All the other times, I didn't get the audio. After several reboots, and missed picture shots, it stayed up for a while.... Actually for about 4 minutes when I finally shut off my computer. Plenty of time to get another picture, only the text was identical. So I see no reason to post the second picture.... The text is exactly the same.

I get the same text with test 27 (cycle 3d on/off.) It pops the screen up, and when I hit <space> to cycle it off then on, it drops back to DOS with the same message. All the other tests seem to go okay (using v2.50 of the OVL.)

Feeding Dragon

Reply 25 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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Ok, got it running with version 2.51 of the OVL file and a single Voodoo II card. Add in the other card SLI and I'm back to the never getting a 3DFX splash screen and hard lock. Single card (haven't swapped cards,) it loads fine. Both Tomb Raider and Shadow Warrior 3DFX. Both cards, and Tomb Raider locks up with the posted message before I even get the menu, and Shadow Warrior says it cannot load texture (or some such, sorry I should have taken a note on that.)

Does the version of the OVL make THAT big a difference? The newer versions didn't maintain backwards compatibility? I guess my next step is to play musical PCI slots again with both cards 🙁

Talking to others who have it working fine.... Which drivers are you using? Which cards? Should I be considering replacing one or both of these? Is there anything else I should be considering?

My system specs.... And changes made during testing:

Gigabyte GA-6BXC MB Intel 440BX Chipset (Problem started on Asus P3V133 MB, Also used Asus P3B-F MB.)
Intel 800Mhz (FSB 100Mhz,) CPU
3x 128M PC100 SDRAM (Tested 1 stick at time with a 4th PC133 stick, all 3 PC100 in system now)
NVidia TNT2 M64 32M AGP 2x Graphics Card (Also tested with ATI Rage Pro Turbo, ATI Rage 128 Pro, & NVidia GeForce2 MX 200)
STB Black Magic Voodoo II 12MB Card (x2 - only one in right now)
RTL-8169S Gigabit NIC (not currently installed.)
Roland MPU-401AT Card (Tested with it removed, but is in system now.)
AWE32 PnP (forget the exact CT# - Tested with it removed but is in now.)
3.5" 1.44M Floppy Drive (A: - Currently reversed in BIOS for 5.25" Game testing)
5.25" 1.2M Floppy Drive (B: - See drive A above.)
3x 40G HDD's, (6 2G DOS Partitions, 3 36G WIN98 Partitions.)
1 40x CD-ROM drive (All the drives were removed at one point or another during testing - Except CD-ROM)

So the problem persisted through 3 MB's, 2 Chipsets, 3 HDD's, & 4 Sticks of RAM. Sort makes the Voodoo 2 cards themselves look guilty 🙁

Feeding Dragon

Reply 26 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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Update: Playing musical PCI slots. Put second card in slot 3 i/o 2 and Tomb Raider loaded, but Shadow Warrior reported "Could not open 3DFX Context" (so it wasn't load texture, sorry about that.) Re-doing the setup and giving it a try resulted in the same thing. So, I'm 3/4's of the way there (1/4 - 1 Game Working 1 card, 1/2 - Both Games 1 card, 3/4 - 1 Game 2 Cards, Full - Both Games 2 Cards.) I'm more hopeful than I was. Running the tests helped. It was while I was trying to figure out which tests worked and didn't work that I came across the 2.50 reference. Though still might not be a full fix, at least I'm getting somewhere.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 27 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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YAY!!! It's working 😀 Full speed, SLI, Still have my 3rd ISA slot open (it shares with the 4th PCI slot,) so I can start planning on the Game Port with speed control. Setting ISA 16-Bit delay to 4 (the largest value - though I did step through 1, 2, & 3,) didn't completely help. Some games are fine, some are not. Wing Commander Armada is the main culprit. Everything is put back together. Shadow Warrior playing at 800x600 without a hiccup (I believe that means that SLI is working.) Tomb Raider is working fine as well.

How I got it working? It took the reference driver v3.01.00. When 2.50 worked partially, 2.51 worked even more so, 2.53 worked almost completely, I just stepped through them all. Every last one of them failed in one way or another except v3.01.00 (Oct 11, 1998) with OVL v2.54. Which rather surprised me since 3.01.01 (Jan 27, 1999 - OVL v2.54) was one of the worst failures (it and 3.02.02 - the last one,) wouldn't do anything at all consistently. Sometimes menu, most of the times not. Some of the tests worked some of the time, most of the time most of them failed.

So, for now, I'm doing a little jig 😀 and until I come across the next game that craps out on me, I'm very happy. Still a "little" concerned about how picky it was over the driver version (the OVL.) But I'm going to take what I can get for now.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 28 of 50, by MrEWhite

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So musical PCI slots fixed it huh? Nice!

Reply 29 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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MrEWhite wrote:

So musical PCI slots fixed it huh? Nice!

Actually, no it didn't. I went through every possible combination with 2 boards and 4 slots. I even reversed the SLI and tried doing it backwards (attaching to the farthest card instead of the nearest.) I got the exact same results in every combination. At this point, I just put them back into slots 1 & 2 (don't remember which board was originally first,) and attached to the nearest. It was "after" all that wasted work that my brain finally kicked into gear (or I was just getting desperate,) and I started trying every version of the OVL file I could find. OK, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but I usually get there eventually.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 30 of 50, by MrEWhite

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FeedingDragon wrote:
MrEWhite wrote:

So musical PCI slots fixed it huh? Nice!

Actually, no it didn't. I went through every possible combination with 2 boards and 4 slots. I even reversed the SLI and tried doing it backwards (attaching to the farthest card instead of the nearest.) I got the exact same results in every combination. At this point, I just put them back into slots 1 & 2 (don't remember which board was originally first,) and attached to the nearest. It was "after" all that wasted work that my brain finally kicked into gear (or I was just getting desperate,) and I started trying every version of the OVL file I could find. OK, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but I usually get there eventually.

Heh, nice.

Reply 31 of 50, by Stiletto

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Nice diagnostic work, FeedingDragon!

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 32 of 50, by Agent of the BSoD

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Somewhat related question, since I have two STB 12MB V2s on my 98 machine: When you load up TR, do you get a 3DFX logo at all now? And are you using the Rush or 3DFX patch on it, and real mode DOS or not? Mainly asking this because I can run the game just fine, but I do not get a 3DFX splash logo at all, which I thought I was supposed to get. (and judging from your posts, you've seen it show up before but I'm not sure if you were referring to TR in specific or something else) The test files that were linked earlier worked fine for me so I thought it was odd.

And on a side note, the 3DFX patch doesn't work at all for me, even with environment variables, it just runs in software mode no matter what I do.

Pentium MMX 233 | 64MB | FIC PA-2013 | Matrox Mystique 220 | SB Pro 2 | Music Quest MPU Clone | Windows 95B
MT-32 | SC-55mkII, 88Pro, 8820 | SB16 CT2230
3DFX Voodoo 1&2 | S3 ViRGE GX2 | PowerVR PCX1&2 | Rendition Vérité V1000 | ATI 3D Rage Pro

Reply 33 of 50, by Gamecollector

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3dfx logo isn't automatic. The game must call grSplaph function to display it. So - some games show the logo, some aren't. This is normal.

Asus P4P800 SE/Pentium4 3.2E/2 Gb DDR400B,
Radeon HD3850 Agp (Sapphire), Catalyst 14.4 (XpProSp3).
Voodoo2 12 MB SLI, Win2k drivers 1.02.00 (XpProSp3).

Reply 34 of 50, by Agent of the BSoD

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Yeah, I know. I'm just curious since my setup sometimes is a bit finicky, and since I don't understand why the regular 3DFX patch won't work at all (just for testing) since it's been reported to work with environment variables on the V2.

Pentium MMX 233 | 64MB | FIC PA-2013 | Matrox Mystique 220 | SB Pro 2 | Music Quest MPU Clone | Windows 95B
MT-32 | SC-55mkII, 88Pro, 8820 | SB16 CT2230
3DFX Voodoo 1&2 | S3 ViRGE GX2 | PowerVR PCX1&2 | Rendition Vérité V1000 | ATI 3D Rage Pro

Reply 35 of 50, by FeedingDragon

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Agent of the BSoD wrote:

Somewhat related question, since I have two STB 12MB V2s on my 98 machine: When you load up TR, do you get a 3DFX logo at all now? And are you using the Rush or 3DFX patch on it, and real mode DOS or not? Mainly asking this because I can run the game just fine, but I do not get a 3DFX splash logo at all, which I thought I was supposed to get. (and judging from your posts, you've seen it show up before but I'm not sure if you were referring to TR in specific or something else) The test files that were linked earlier worked fine for me so I thought it was odd.

And on a side note, the 3DFX patch doesn't work at all for me, even with environment variables, it just runs in software mode no matter what I do.

TR normally calls for the logo, and it pops up every time I load the game now, but the later drivers never popped it up for me. This could be because they was failing for some reason. Though, on the rare occasions when TR did load with those drivers, or when it loaded with my system majorly under-clocked, it didn't pop up either. I had actually forgotten about the logo, till it popped up with the older driver.

As for playing the game, I'm running it in DOS 6.22. If your issue is any relation to mine, you might need to use the version 3.01.00 drivers from FalconFly that finally fixed my problem. Might be different in Windows 98, I'm still in the process of setting up a re-install or I could test it. I generally plan to play pure DOS games (and Windows 3.1 games) in 6.22 and Win32/Wind98 Games in Windows 98 (dual booting.) Personally, I plan to install those version drivers in Windows 98 anyways. At least until it's proven that I need different ones. If your Win98 drivers work fine except for DOS games, since TR uses DOS mode, and the Voodoo Rush executable file looks for this file specifically, you might try copying the GLIDE2X.OVL file from the 3.01.00 drivers into your TR directory. It will look there first for the file, then search the path. Then you could use the newer files in Windows 98, and this one for TR (or whatever other DOS mode games you end up installing.)

On the same note, Shadow Warrior has never popped the logo up for me. Even with the older drivers. I never really gave it any thought 😀 I believe, that in the early days, 3DFX may have required that programmers trigger the logo as part of the licensing agreement, as most companies shy away from advertising other companies unless they are required to (even if they aren't in direct competition.) But that's just a guess, would have to do a serious comparison study to see if it's a pattern that holds or not. That's a job for someone else though, I find it interesting, but I already have plenty of projects already 🤣

p.s. The environment variables and the 3DFX exe file never worked for me either. It's one of the things I tried out when the problem first started.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 36 of 50, by Agent of the BSoD

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Hmm, I tried that particular version of the glide2x.ovl file, both in Windows and real mode DOS, but the game refuses to use my V2s and just runs in software mode instead. Verified that it works without the file in the TR folder so that's weird.

Pentium MMX 233 | 64MB | FIC PA-2013 | Matrox Mystique 220 | SB Pro 2 | Music Quest MPU Clone | Windows 95B
MT-32 | SC-55mkII, 88Pro, 8820 | SB16 CT2230
3DFX Voodoo 1&2 | S3 ViRGE GX2 | PowerVR PCX1&2 | Rendition Vérité V1000 | ATI 3D Rage Pro

Reply 37 of 50, by vetz

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Are you running at 133mhz FSB?

Also on a side note. These Voodoo2 threads keep showing up. Most of the times its user error or bad hardware, the rest of the times its compatibility issues with the motherboard/other hardware. It's not the compatibility with the card and the game itself that is the problem. There are more people who get this working than not.

Every system I have in my collection works flawlessly with the patches and environment variables provided in my Voodoo2 DOS thread, so there is no problem with those (several others confirm that they work as well, including mega tester Phil 😀 )

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
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Reply 38 of 50, by Agent of the BSoD

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vetz wrote:

Are you running at 133mhz FSB?

Yes, I am. Just checked with CPU-Z.

Pentium MMX 233 | 64MB | FIC PA-2013 | Matrox Mystique 220 | SB Pro 2 | Music Quest MPU Clone | Windows 95B
MT-32 | SC-55mkII, 88Pro, 8820 | SB16 CT2230
3DFX Voodoo 1&2 | S3 ViRGE GX2 | PowerVR PCX1&2 | Rendition Vérité V1000 | ATI 3D Rage Pro