What kind of DOS gaming?
IBM PCjr / Tandy 1000 era?
IBM 5150/60/70 era?
286 era?
386 era?
486 era?
Pentium (MMX) era?
Pentium II era?

Each era has sound / graphic standards and different games with unique specifications.

Do you just want to play games with OK sound or go high end?

My recommendation: buy an OEM desktop (or multiple) with SB Pro 2 / SB16 and hook up a MT-32 and SC-7/55.

I had a SB Pro, SB16, AWE32 and a Terratec Maestro 32/96.

The Terratec is what I kept. It's SBPro compatible for old games, and WSS compatible for new games. The MIDI sounds like a Roland SC-55 (same ROM.)

If you also hook up an MT-32 (or better: CM-64), that should give you the best possible setup.

- If I get a Soundblaster AWE64, will it be enough to cover everything Soundblaster? How about adlib, etc?

Yes. I don't remember ANY compatibility issues with AWE64 (of course it should be ISA version, not PCI).
Every game worked in all selectable Adlib/SB/SB 2.0/SB Pro/SB 16/AWE32 modes.

- Should I just get a Gravis Ultrasound instead (or the new one currently being prototyped on this board), or would I have to get both?

I wouldn't recommend "instead", because many games did not support GUS natively, relying on SB emulation, wich not always worked.
And I wouldn't really recommend "both", because hardware resources (IRQs, DMAs) were scarce back then, so you may run into hardware conflicts.

IMO GUS is more something for people who like to play around with loading wavetables, produce music et cetera.

I like to turn a vintage machine on and just start a game with native SB / LA / GM support: no hassles. 🤣

PeterLI wrote:

My recommendation: buy an OEM desktop (or multiple) with SB Pro 2 / SB16 and hook up a MT-32 and SC-7/55.

I believe I want 386-486 etc, but I wouldn't want to be unable to try earlier generations if possible. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to think of having a single machine to do all this.

I've been using DOSBox to listen to the (emulated) sound of various cards, and my conclusion was MT-32 > GUS > SB, depending on what the game allows. I don't know what to do with General Midi, which sounds cool but seems seldom used by games?

What's the idea behind using a SB Pro or 16 instead of the more advanced AWE32/64? they can all be found for relatively cheap today.

realnc wrote:

I had a SB Pro, SB16, AWE32 and a Terratec Maestro 32/96.

The Terratec is what I kept. It's SBPro compatible for old games, and WSS compatible for new games. The MIDI sounds like a Roland SC-55 (same ROM.)

If you also hook up an MT-32 (or better: CM-64), that should give you the best possible setup.

That seems like a nice setup! Is there no significant differences with an AWE32/64 or a GUS?
I might go with this setup otherwise.

jarreboum wrote:

realnc wrote:

I had a SB Pro, SB16, AWE32 and a Terratec Maestro 32/96.

The Terratec is what I kept. It's SBPro compatible for old games, and WSS compatible for new games. The MIDI sounds like a Roland SC-55 (same ROM.)

If you also hook up an MT-32 (or better: CM-64), that should give you the best possible setup.

That seems like a nice setup! Is there no significant differences with an AWE32/64 or a GUS?
I might go with this setup otherwise.

There are differences. It's not SB16 compatible (the AWE32 is). However, that didn't matter the majority of the times because most SB16 games also supported WSS. Getting the Terratec means you won't need an SC-55.

On the other hand, if you go for an AWE32, you will also need either an SC-55, or some other MIDI module or WaveTable board, since the AWE32 is not MPU401 compatible. It also sounds absolutely nothing like an SC-55, while the Terratec does.

If you actually have money to throw at this, then you can get an AWE32 + SC-55 (or a Terratec WaveTable that has the SC-55 ROM, like the Terratec WaveSystem Professional SOWT-24 Ver. 2.0) + CM-64. This will give you SB16 compatibility for some games that didn't support WSS. But, more expensive. If you want to spend less money, then Maestro 32/96 + CM-64 will do it.

A GUS is nice to have, but overall not that useful. Demoscene stuff though loves the GUS.

Update:
There's quite a few WaveTable boards to choose from. Roland also produced one, which has the SC-55 sounds, the Roland Sound Canvas SCB-7 Wavetable Daughterboard, 4MB. I think this is the best one, as it should sound identical to a Roland SC-55. You should be able to connect that on the AWE32 WaveBlaster port.

Of course finding all that stuff might not be the easiest thing...

As everyone's saying, Gravis Ultrasound is a bad replacement for a Sound Blaster / Adlib card. It should ideally be your second sound card. There's a handful of games where it really shines and otherwise its advantages are in playing or composing tracker music.

AWE64 would be perfectly Adlib/SB16/AWE32 compatible, but they no longer used the original Yamaha OPL FM synth chip. Creative's clone doesn't necessarily sound worse, but it does sound a little different.

I've been using DOSBox to listen to the (emulated) sound of various cards, and my conclusion was MT-32 > GUS > SB, depending on what the game allows.

Keep in mind that DOSBox does *not* emulate AWE32/64 wavetable MIDI capability, only SB16. So you won't hear AWE wavetable sound out of DOSBox, and GUS emulation is the way to go for wavetable MIDI on DOSBox.

And how does real AWE wavetable MIDI sound like? That depends on the soundfont (.sft/.sf2) you use, and on your AWE card memory size.
The cheapest AWE64 Value had a built-in ROM arguably comparable to GUS, but only 512 kB for custom patches (you could mix ROM and custom instruments at the same time). AWE64 Gold has 4 MB memory if I remember correctly.

Damn, are you saying that the AWE may sound at least on par, if not better than a GUS? Then I would have been fooled by DOSBox not emulating it.
I may go with an AWE64 Gold if the sound isn't significantly different from the SB.

So it seems I'm down to two options
- AWE64 with MT-32 and another General MIDI,
- Terratec Maestro 32/96 with Roland MT-32.

No more GUS, and SoftMPU everywhere. Only one ISA card is needed then? I swear I thought I would have to populate it with four or five different incompatible cards. That's a relief.

You might also want to consider an Audician 32 Plus with a Dreamblaster S1 General MIDI daughterboard. The Audician is roughly the equivalent of a SB Pro and does not have the hanging note bug so will work well with the S1 daughterboard. From what I understand, it's a very quiet board too (unlike many Sound Blasters which hiss a lot at higher volumes) and is brand new so you don't have to worry so much about age-related failures. Add Roland MT-32 and this should be a nice combo.

The Audician is currently about $22 shipped to the US while the S1 is a little over $30. You will probably pay more for AWE64 or Terratec Maestro.

I started my DOS PC with a Aztec/Crystal based soundboard which is similar (SBPro compatible) to the Audician, but without a MIDI header. I wanted General MIDI, so I bought a Sound Blaster 16 Vibra CT2800 (one of the quieter Sound Blasters and has a MIDI header) and DreamBlaster S1. Overall it was a good combination, but it was still noisier than the Aztec and has the hanging note bug. I didn't think it would bother me, but on certain games (Tie Fighter and Duke Nukem 3D) it was unbearable. So I ordered the Audician. 😉 It's on its way now. I plan to replace the CT2800/S1 with Audician/S1.

SCD-7/SCB-10/SCM-10: SC-7: GM only: RAP-10 really.
SCD-15/SCB-55/SCM-15: SC-55: GM & GS: SCC-1(A) really.

Wasn't the MPU-401AT often sold as a unit with the SCB-55, kind-of as a replacement for the SCC-1?

SCM-10/15 was the MPU-401AT & DB bundle. Sold for a very brief time: extremely rare.

clueless1 wrote:

You might also want to consider an Audician 32 Plus with a Dreamblaster S1 General MIDI daughterboard. The Audician is roughly the equivalent of a SB Pro and does not have the hanging note bug so will work well with the S1 daughterboard. From what I understand, it's a very quiet board too (unlike many Sound Blasters which hiss a lot at higher volumes) and is brand new so you don't have to worry so much about age-related failures. Add Roland MT-32 and this should be a nice combo.

I didn't know about this one it's interesting. But the combo Audician 32 Plus with a MIDI daughterboard is equivalent to the Terratec Maestro 32/96, the key difference being that the Terratec sports the SC-55 chip. I listened to a couple of comparison videos on youtube (PhilsComputerLab has a bunch of them), and I must say I much prefer the Dreamblaster X1 to the Dreamblaster S1, but even then I feel the SC-55 is a hair better. Given the X1 is 80€, the price advantage is lost compared to the Terratec.

Reading this thread again it seems people tend to think that the AWE32/64, even though better than a SB Pro, loses its advantage as games having a 16/AWE option also have GM/MT32, and this last option just blow the AWE out of the water.

So:
- Audician 32 Plus with a Dreamblaster S1 / bit weak, nope.
- Audician 32 Plus with a Dreamblaster X1 / much better.
- Terratec Maestro 32/96 / same as above, but the integrated SC-55 may make it sound just slightly better, depending on the person.
- AWE64 with an external SC-55. Is there any advantage in having MIDI as a big and bulky external module? Do all these buttons have any use regarding gaming?

Now if there were a MIDI daughterboard equivalent of the SC-55 I would have to change my mind again 😉

Oh, and a bit of a practical question: how streamlined is the use of a soundcard with MIDI daughterboard, along with an external MT-32? How do I select one or the other? Is it a per game setting that I can automatise? Can I just leave everything on with the correct setting and the sound will only come out of the selected board, or do I have to play with switches every time I change game/setup?

jarreboum wrote:

Oh, and a bit of a practical question: how streamlined is the use of a soundcard with MIDI daughterboard, along with an external MT-32? How do I select one or the other? Is it a per game setting that I can automatise? Can I just leave everything on with the correct setting and the sound will only come out of the selected board, or do I have to play with switches every time I change game/setup?

Easy peasy. Presuming you mean to buy an MPU interface, set the onboard MPU port of the soundcard to 0x300 and leave the MPU card as 0x330. Then just select 0x300 in game to use the Waveblaster midi device, or 0x330 to use your external MIDI box (be it MT32, or anything else) - no other resources or settings need to be changed.

The Terratec seems rare. There is only one on Ebay and it is about US $110 shipped. Something to keep in mind unless you have another source to get one. Best of luck!

A good single choice would be a Vibra16, the model with an OPL chip.
Then get one of those dreamblaster s1 modules (think it's called that).
With a Vibra, you loose treble and bass settings. Though you won't
get that hanging note when using midi...
This is probably the cheapest solution as of now when looking at
what you are getting for the money.
And a decent starter solution.

brostenen wrote:

A good single choice would be a Vibra16, the model with an OPL chip. Then get one of those dreamblaster X1 modules (think it's c […]
Show full quote

A good single choice would be a Vibra16, the model with an OPL chip.
Then get one of those dreamblaster X1 modules (think it's called that).
With a Vibra, you loose treble and bass settings. Though you won't
get that hanging note when using midi...
This is probably the cheapest solution as of now when looking at
what you are getting for the money.
And a decent starter solution.

Not necessarily true. I have a Vibra16 (CT2800) and it does have the hanging note bug.
http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hanging_note_bug
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2012_07_01_archive.html
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2012/07/s … 64-options.html

Go by the CT model number, not the card description.

I saw the Terratec Maestro on eBay, I sent a message to the seller asking if they still had the MIDI daughterboard, as they are using a stock photo. If they don't there's no point bothering getting it.

I thought I had thrown away all my old PC stuff, but it turns out I kept a couple of cards for no reason at all. What I have is a PCI "Maxi Sound Fortissimo", it will probably have as much use as an integrated AC97 in a retro setup. I also have a card with an "ESS Audiodrive ES1868F" as its chipset. No other branding, but it has pins to plug a MIDI board, and that's cool. It's a bit too low profile for the Dreamblaster X1, I'm missing about 5mm in height. I'll get the cheap Dreamblaster S1 to use as a test setup.

I believe I will simply get an AWE64 in the future. After watching some comparison videos I'm satisfied with its MIDI sound and it seems compatible with most everything. They are also fairly numerous and relatively cheap on auction sites.

Of course whatever internal solution I end up with, it will be complemented with an external Roland MT-32.