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Tetrium's guide to Windows ME

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First post, by Tetrium

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Notice: Any discussion like "ME is crap, 98SE rocks" and "why would any sane man even want to bother with Mistake Edition" can be done over here Windows Me - "Misunderstood Edition"
I'd prefer this thread to not become a discussion thread, we all know how these tend to turn out.

If anyone here wants to let us know how superios 98SE (or any other OS) is, then please feel free to create another tweaking thread.
Thank you for your time 😀.

------ Intro ------
I got the idea to write this from this thread
Particularly this part 😁
Perhaps someone here should write a guide to optimizing ME?
I at some point even made a ZIP disk which was packed with all the necessary files and tweaks I needed to get ME running swell

edit: I suppose I should do it !
But feel free to chime in!

edit2: I quickly found both the ZIP disk containing all the stuff and tweaks I used for all my new ME rigs and that extremely versatile and visually pleasing USB 250MB ZIP drive I used at the time. I'm actually gonna go through with this !
Will post a link here once the first revision of this mini-guide is done .

------ The backstory ------
Backstory: Over the course of many years I kinda accidentally ended up building tons of new rigs, mostly using older parts I scavenged from basically anywhere. I think anyone who builds one rig after another, kinda starts to develop some routine, not only in building the rig with parts carefully selected (or just jumbled together with a hammer almost, whatever suits your bill), but also installing drivers, certain programs one will kinda always use (winzip/winrar, some text editor, directx, etc) and doing some manual or automated tweaks to make the system run the way you want it to run.

As I happened to build mostly rigs using Windows ME, I started to develop and tweak my own workflow and ended up using a dedicated ZIP disk containing all of the files and tweaks and other info that I needed to quickly get my newest rig running the way I wanted.

I've just dug out this ZIP disk which I haven't used in a few years or so I think (my latest builds were mostly XP and 7) but I always kept the disk.

------ Content of the disk ------
At the time of writing, I only just gotten the entire content of the ZIP disk onto my 7 rig so I can re-read all of the stuff I collected and written years ago and I'm going to describe the contents at first (perhaps upload it or parts of it at some later time).

The root dir contained a single dir and the Dutch version of the DirectX 8.1 setup (probably not used an earlier version as I mostly build rigs which didn't need earlier versions and perhaps to save some space).

Inside the main dir I had 2 new dirs (9x programs and tweaks) and a few programs and text files.

The text files contain a trick how to install ME without having to use a serial code, another one with the standard location of the current ME serials location in the registry and a small guide on how to customize the start/programs menu (this file was apparently downloaded or copy+pasted from microsoft somewhere in 2009).

The programs here are:
* IVIEW397.EXE
this program has been a staple for me for years now.
* klcodec301f.exe
can't remember why exactly, but I probably wanted to be able to run all kinds of video files if I wanted to.
* MESP1.EXE
this one is important. Even though it's an English unofficial SP I got from msfn.org which I used on my Dutch installs, this file also contains some automated tweaks that saved me some time, but were in my opinion a must-do.

The 9x programs dir contains the following files:
* TCPOptimizer.exe
I really can't remember why I put this one here, probably in case I ever needed it for networking, which iirc I never ended up doing.
* SPeedGuide.net__TCP Optimizer...
This file probably describes what the TCPOptimizer is actually for (I find it a good custom to always download the download page along with the programs I download, to prevent me from finding loose .exe files without having any clue why I downloaded it in the first place years ago 🤣
* VOGONS - Windows ME and network cards.mht
I think this one is obvious 😁
* WINMEHCL.TXT
Another microsoft download, a Hardware Compatibility List for Windows ME, dated 03/06/2003. This list is very extensive. Dunno why I put it on this ZIP disk, as choosing the components would typically be something I'd do before putting all of the components together, but I think I put it on the disk itself so I'd know where to find it whenever I needed it.
This list is very extensive.

The second directory (tweaks) contains all of the actual tweaks, downloaded from different sources on the net.

These include downloaded webpages containing the following (only putting small portions here, otherwise it would become unreadable in no time 😜.)

------ webpage 1 ------

Tips and suggestions that will allow you to enhance and improve Microsoft's Windows Millennium Edition OS.
Master Index

Windows-ME booting faster
Displaying ALL system files
Disable the smart start menu
Cascading control panel
Capturing the screen image
Playing digital video files smoothly
Creating a clean bootable disc
Installing Win-ME on slower processors
IntelliMouse problem
Restoring DOS Mode
Sysedit with WinME
More Speed
Speed Up Internet Explorer 5
Modem Connection Timeouts
Change Registered Owner
Enable Windows Media player DVD playback
CDFS Cache Tweaking
TweakUI for WinME
System Restore Issues
Windows Me: The Missing Manual and Windows Me Secrets
WinME Drivers
Windows Me updates
Windows Me Newsgroups
WinME Related Microsoft Knowledge base Articles

------ webpage 2 ------

A forum thread containing a base msbatch.inf file along with a little bit of info

------ webpage 3 ------

This one basically contains the tip to disable PC-Health instead of removing it (I found simply disabling it to me pretty much sufficient, it would be my personal advice to anyone else).

------ webpage 4 ------

Another microsoft page describing how to disable system restore in Windows ME (It's in Dutch, the page mentions it's auto-translated and I'd be surprised if the original files are still on microsoft's website).

------ webpage 5 ------

A webpage with detailed descriptions about how to effectively auto-manage ME's memory and even though the page was apparently specifically written with a program "cacheman" in mind (not present om my ZIP disk, probably because the tools wasn't freeware at the time. No idea about that program now, but I never really needed it anyway).

------ webpage 6 ------

A downloaded version of "How to run Windows ME well, version 5" and apparently this guide is still online!

-----

One thing I'm missing is tweakui, but it's possible this program is already contained inside that unofficial ME SP I mentioned earlier in this post.

This will be a work in progress at best and things may stall a lot, but perhaps it might be a good starting point at combining our knowledge on how to get ME running the way we want it to run.

If anyone has any additional tweaks or questions regarding this subject, feel free to ask or contribute.
I wrote this as a quick semi-guide and this is more an embryo instead of a matured guide, but we all gotta start somewhere, right?
__________________ Picking suitable components _____________________

This is also important.

Windows ME does have slightly, but significant, higher minimum system requirements.

Where Windows 98SE might even run kinda fine on a DX4, I'd recommend not trying out ME on a similarly low-specced system.

It needs a more powerful CPU, it needs a slightly larger harddrive and it definitely likes a higher amount of minimum RAM.

Personally I'll typically not consider ME for anything with only 64MB of RAM (the type of RAM doesn't really matter too much I think) and I think a Pentium MMX really is the minimum CPU to use here).

When it comes to what I'd see as the absolute useable minimum, I'd get specs as the following:

CPU: 300MHz K6-2 or a Pentium 2
RAM: 128MB
HDD: 3GB or so
Graphics card: 4MB Virge or similar
Sound: ISA should work (or might, but ME isn't as well suited for DOS as 98SE is)

My minimum specs for getting a Windows ME rig that actually starts being fun to use:

CPU: 400MHz K6-III or 350MHz Pentium 2
RAM: 192MB
HDD: 6GB or so (need at least 1GB for the Windows ME partition)
Graphics card: Any GPU that comes with 16MB should be good enough, a single Voodoo 12 runs perfectly fine in ME)
Sound: Anything PCI

My kinda-optimum specs, anything above will yield few results for Windows ME itself (but it's perfectly ok to install ME on a significantly more powerful system depending on the games you intend to play on it).

CPU: Anything Pentium 3 or something like a 500MHz K6-III or K6+
RAM: 256MB
HDD: 10GB, the faster and the newer the harddrive is, the better
Graphics card: TNT2 or Voodoo 3
Sound: PCI

The last bit here is a bit redundant and depending on how much you want it, the kinda practical maximum system requirements for Windows ME (unless you wanna go tweak the hell out of it using memory patches and stuff like that).

CPU: Anything that doesn't have 2 cores or doesn't have hyperthreading
RAM: 512MB - 1GB
HDD: 128GB or so
Graphics card: Geforce FX or Radeon 8500 (not sure about the Radeon bit)
Sound: CT Audigy 2 or so? (I know little about driver support for 9x for much more recent sound cards).

================= TETRIUM'S WINDOWS ME GUIDE ===================
Things I'd recommend to do, include the following:

*** First some hardware bits I tend to use

** In general, building a rig (including a retro rig) is partially about picking the right parts, but also in the way that you use said parts.

Windows ME tries to do things it's own way and messing around with swapping components or settings may upset ME, so try to do minimal unnecessary changes

It's important to consider the parts you'll use in your rig, especially when using Windows ME as this helps prevent all kinds of odd issues.

** Workflow before actually assembling the parts that you are going to use in your retro rig

One rule I abide to, is to never use completely untested parts when building a retro rig. This is somewhat more time-consuming at first, but will make things easier (and less frustrating) in the long run.

Whenever I acquire new parts, I always inspect the parts first by inspecting for anomalies, like burn marks, leaking caps, scratches, bend pins, battery damages, signs of rough handling, wear and tear (fans that are seized up or damaged power cables) and other physical damages, dirt, dead biological stuff that doesn't belong there and anything else out of the ordinary.

I also make sure I got the parts that I think I bought by checking the part number. Sometimes parts are sold under slightly different names or there are subtle, but important differences (like having a Live! sound card that is either a retail card or an OEM card from a Dell system, which might need completely different drivers or treatment).

Next I store all these parts separately from the rest of all the sorted parts, into a box of untested parts with the specific notion written on there that these boxes contain untested and uncleaned parts.

So guess what the next step is? Yup, cleaning all the parts (mostly things like contact points of memory modules) and these I put in what is basically the next box (untested, but cleaned up).

At some point I will actually test the hardware bits briefly by plugging it into a test setup (usually a crappy or otherwise expendable motherboard with only the most basic parts installed, like a slow CPU + HSF, monitor, mouse and keyboard and a PSU and stuff like that) and see if anything starts to burn.
Memory modules I only make sure it passed POST with each module tested separately. Same goes for graphics cards and CPUs.
I'll also keep an ear out for any fans that might be stuck or almost worn out.

After everything has been tested, the parts get labelled and sorted into the right storage containers. This will depend on how many parts your collection of retro gear consist of. I'll typically keep parts together that belong together (like dual channel memory modules or upgrade modules that only fit very few computer parts) or parts that somehow make sense being put together (like PC-100 modules separated from PC-133 modules and PCI graphics cards of a certain era together).

** Picking the parts

This is basically a large part of preventing any future issues that are in fact quite easy to prevent, like trying to add a Voodoo 5 to a s478 Intel-chipsetted board (it will fit, but things could burn if you try this). When adding more than one memory module, I always try to pick modules that are as similar as possible (same chip density and same manufacturer get preference here).
Any quirks I'll want to know in advance, like PCI slots that aren't actually suited for the stuff I want to use in it.
It will also help to know in advance how much power components like CPU and graphics card will use (and what rails, 5v or 12v?), as this is important when considering the PSU and the case ventilation. Computer parts that are strained to their max will die sooner and give you more headaches down the road, so consider this.

IMPORTANT!!!!! A special consideration when planning to build an ME rig, is the harddrive.
Why? Because one of my tricks is in partitioning.

What I'll always do (and this goes especially for Windows ME, as I want the Windows part to remain as clean and lean as can be), is partition the drive in 2 parts at the very least, with the C partition intended to be for Windows ME and basically nothing else!

This is important for several reasons, as having ME on its own partition will prevent it from getting corrupted by evil installers and uninstallers and it will help prevent disk fragmentation.
I'll typically only add other Microsoft stuff or drivers to C and will partition the remaining space depending on how much space I have left, but my preference is to use D for program files and E for games (with the E partition being the largest).

In my experience, setting this to 1GB should be enough (unless you intend to set the virtual memory to a very high value, the swap file must also be located here... I think).

So please do create a separate partition for Windows ME.

** Now on to the start of the actual assemblage of the rig itself!

At this point I'll probably already know which parts I want to have in any certain rig I intend to give life.

It's the usual start at first, assembling and configuring the basic hardware components (motherboard, CPU, graphics card) and I put this on my test bench again as I'll be using a trusty PSU.
Obviously I'll do another (but more brief) visual inspection for any signs of future problems (leaking caps or moist or warping of a motherboard, stuff like that).

Whenever I use a motherboard which already has its correct CPU installed, I'll reapply any thermal compound to make sure this won't cause any problems down the road. Same with memory modules, a quick re-insertion.

I'll start by putting motherboard, CPU+HSF and a fodder PCI graphics card together and make the system POST. I'll typically also enter the BIOS and check the voltages (I don't have a volt meter, so I'll do it this way, it's better then nothing 🤣). I'll watch out for things like accidental overclocking (too high a FSB on a jumpered board) or overvolting and after everything has checked out, I'll remove power from the system and start adding parts one by one (usually the real graphics card will be the first to get added).

I'll typically only add additional components (like the sound card) if I suspect ME already came with the drivers for it. If the component is a lot newer and requires separate driver installs, I'll wait till after ME is installed and running before I'll physically add these components and install its drivers.

Now what does all of this have to do with Windows ME?

Windows ME can be quirky and troubleshooting ME can be nasty if the problem can be a million different things.

** Installing Windows ME

Yup...I'll install ME as soon as I have only the basic stuff assembled on my test bench. Things that I'll have pre-assembled include all of the memory I will be using, the correct CPU and motherboard and graphics card and (obviously) the correct HDD.
Sometimes I'll even add the intended graphics card later and use a fodder-Virge or something. This is to make sure ME doesn't choke while installing and to make sure stuff like overheating and other potential problems ruin your fun later.

Be sure to have created a separate C partition for ME as I've described above (at least 1GB and keep as much away from C as possible).

With ME, you'll want to prevent swapping tons of different components around and you'll also not want to install tons of programs and other funny stuff (unless it's games, cuz games are cool 😁).
ME works best when it is lean. This is my experience.

Now, the other hardware stuff I'll optionally add after the installation of ME is completed and I'm on the desktop.

I'll typically postspone assembling the final rig into its dedicated case after I'm done with all of the tweaks which I've described below.

*** Now on to the more software-ry bits

** First I disable any stuff I don't want or need:

Disable the Windows ME PC Health feature (I don't bother trying to remove it completely)
* Way 1 to disable it:
Run Task Scheduler (Accessoires\System Tools)
Right-click PC Health and disable it.
* Way 2 to disable it:
Go to start, run, type "msconfig" and click on the startup at the top then find PC Health and uncheck it.
Doing it the msconfig way has the extra benefit that one can disable more stuff in a single go (mostly stuff related to power management and task scheduler) Go nuts, but at your own discretion, remember that this is YOUR rig 😀.

After PC Health is disabled, the OS might want a reboot, but iirc I typically first disabled System Restore next before doing a reboot so I had 1 less reboot (use at your own risk).
Disable the WIndows ME System Restore thingy:
Right-click "My Computer" and then go to "properties"
There should be a "Performance"-tab or button, go there to find the option to disable System Restore
Might ask for a reboot now
Disable Windows Update
From control panel --> automatic updates
Should be disableable from here.
Disable anything that has to do with hybernation and power management (possibly from within the BIOS, but this is best done before installing ME as doing major tweaks to the BIOS settings after ME is installed, may ruin the OS.
Right-click on desktop --> properties --> screensaver --> settings.
Set things like "standby" to "never"

** Next are the things like certain settings that I typically take a look at.
Enable DMA for HDD and ODD
Right click My Computer --> properties --> device manager
Here check each applicable device
properties --> settings --> now go enable DMA by hitting the checkbox (it's possible this can't be done when the device doesn't support DMA and if it can't then it can't).
There are other settings, but I'm not sure these matter a whole lot.

The desktop resolution I will typically pick depending on the hardware I use (graphics card and display monitor etc), but also depending on the wallpaper I picked, but I will often set it to something that is lower than 32-bit colors (I hardly notice the difference in prettyness, so might as well disable the 32-bit feature thingy).

** Next are the memory and other performance tweaks

Active Desktop
I don't disable active desktop even though this might help speed things up a bit, but that's just a personal preference.
Virtual Memory
This is basically tweaking the swap file.
What I would typically do, is to set it to a fixed amount. The important bit here is that whenever the swap file increased or decreases in size, it will add to disk fragmentation. Extra disk fragmentation by this constant growing and shrinking of the swap file can however be easily prevented by making it a fixed size.
PAY ATTENTION! This does have one big potential drawback: If the system needs more virtual memory than you set the maximum amount of virtual memory to, your system will crash, so I'd typically set it to something large and to an amount it will be very unlikely you'll probably need (if you play games that require 64MB at the most and don't use too many other programs, setting this to 512MB will probably not cause this virtual memory overflow problem).
This also depends on the size of your HDD, so I kinda tend to set it quite high (like 1 GB or so), even for slower systems under 500MHz or so, unless I'll know I can really get away with a smaller size (like 512MB or even somewhat less).
Heres how:
Go to Control Panel --> System --> Performance --> Virtual Memory and choose "Let me specify my own virtual memory settings"
Specify the same amount for both the minimum and maximum RAM-size (a good guess is to use twice the amount of RAM here).
This will take effect after a reboot.

Memory usage tweaks (use at your own discretion!!!!!):
Go to your Windows directory (probably on your C drive).
Open up system.ini and find the [386Enh] section
Make an extra line by using the ENTER key and then add the following line:
ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1
IMPORTANT!!!!! If you use 512MB or more, set MaxFileCache=524288 (the following written part describes where and how to do this)
Next find the [vcache] section and add the following lines:
MinFileCache=
MaxFileCache=
ChunkSize=
IMPORTANT!!!!! As I don't really know why setting MinFileCache and MaxFileCache to 524288 regardless of how little RAM is installed, I might simply use 524288 regardless of the settings I written below. Use at your own discretion!

From what I've read, MinFileCache and MaxFileCache should 1) be identical and 2) be about 25% of the size of your RAM (I don't think it will hurt if this is set higher, as it's also recommended to set MaxFileCache to 524288 when using 512MB RAM instead of the 131072 that I described directly below here).
So 16384 for 64MB, 32768 for 128MB, 65536 for 256MB, 131072 for 512MB. When tweaking a rig with, say, 192MB or 384MB, I'd use the value of either 128MB (32768) or 256MB (65536) for 192MB and either the value of 256MB (65536) or 512MB (131072) for 384MB.
ChunkSize iiuc defaults to 512 and this value is kinda like the size of the sectors of your HDD, so larger values in ChunkSize will mean a slight increase in memory performance, but also a slight increase in memory useage. I personally tend to set this value to 2048 or even 4096, as I tend to use (way) more memory then these settings were defaulted for.
These settings will take effect after a reboot.

Now right-click My Computer and go to properties and then performance
There should be a setting with computer role. Change it from desktop pc to network server

Turn off animated menus
This is not only a tweak I use because it's unneeded, but also because this will actually help in making your OS feel more responsive, which is nice!
Here's how:
Control panel --> Dsiplay --> Effects
uncheck "use transition effects"

** Other tweaks

These tweaks are a bit more personal, but I think these also make sense in a way.
What I do (and I do this with basically all versions of Windows), is to unhide system files/system directories and unhide known file extensions

There is also this VMM32.VXD problem, but as I kinda know little about this, it's best to use google or ask on a forum or something.

*** Now on to the more fun-like stuff

** This is the part where you'll have to decide what to do with this rig.
I typically use it for gaming and perhaps a benchmark or 2, so I'll install things like DirectX (the version is up to you) and the remains of the drivers that were not auto-installed by ME itself (I typically do the drivers after all of the above tweaks are done, also to prevent these from messing with the OS too much before I disable stuff).

So there isn't much here, as this comes down to personal preference.

** Completing the rig

And at this point I'll start with the final assemblage of all the remaining parts and its drivers (mostly things like sound cards and NICs I add at this point).

You should be home free now (this guide will probably be revised a couple more times).

================================================================
Assume this post will be edited a lot if need be, cheers.

Last edited by Tetrium on 2016-05-26, 00:29. Edited 4 times in total.

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Reply 3 of 38, by Tetrium

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Rhuwyn wrote:

I've always failed to see what Windows ME did that Windows98SE didn't. (From a retro perspective). Do you prefer Win98SE or WinME? Whats your reasoning?

It's here Windows Me - "Misunderstood Edition"

If you want, I can answer any additional questions for you over there, I'd prefer this thread to not become a discussion about ME vs 98SE, it's more an attempt at condensing tips and tweaks for ME for future users.

edit: Updated the first post. Mind you, this is kinda a work in progress so I'll probably be editing it over time, ironing out the rough edges.

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Reply 4 of 38, by BSA Starfire

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Well I for one have found ME a better OS than 98SE. So I'm looking forward to your instructions and files. If I wanted DOS, I'd install DOS! 🤣
Back when it was new, I went from MacOS 7.5 on PPC, and Windows 3.11 on a winchip 200 to Windows 2000 on a VERY early Compaq P4 1.5. But even stock I have found ME better than 98 on my retro rigs. In fact that is what the Winchip had after it was swapped to family use, it was fine for years after.
I currently use ME on 3 systems, a Celeron 466, Cyrix MII 333 & AMD K6-2 450.

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 5 of 38, by Tetrium

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BSA Starfire wrote:

Well I for one have found ME a better OS than 98SE. So I'm looking forward to your instructions and files. If I wanted DOS, I'd install DOS! 🤣
Back when it was new, I went from MacOS 7.5 on PPC, and Windows 3.11 on a winchip 200 to Windows 2000 on a VERY early Compaq P4 1.5. But even stock I have found ME better than 98 on my retro rigs. In fact that is what the Winchip had after it was swapped to family use, it was fine for years after.
I currently use ME on 3 systems, a Celeron 466, Cyrix MII 333 & AMD K6-2 450.

The guide that still appears to exist online, is a good start. I'll go update the rest, please be patient for a bit 😜.
Some things (like any localized version of DirectX) also kinda depends on your personal preference.

Any tweaks you can share here by any chance?

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Reply 6 of 38, by Tetrium

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Major update and first real revision of the guide (see first post).

Also decided to give this thread another name, as the old one was kinda not fitting enough anymore.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 7 of 38, by leileilol

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Rhuwyn wrote:

I've always failed to see what Windows ME did that Windows98SE didn't. (From a retro perspective). Do you prefer Win98SE or WinME? Whats your reasoning?

Higher mouse sampling rate by default was one, and integrating what Win98 Plus had (Compressed folders etc) as standard features were another, and then there's the Win2Kisms that Me gets misblamed for (like "Where are my programs? WTF START MENU!!! FUCKING WINDOWS ME worst os ever")

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long live PCem

Reply 8 of 38, by notsofossil

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I have been using the stock Windows ME OEM version and it has been wonderful to use. It's just like Windows 98SE with new features and improvements. The unofficial service pack is certainly nice, but even un-updated Windows ME is perfectly fine, like 98SE. I really don't understand why people hate Windows ME.

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Reply 9 of 38, by clueless1

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I have to say, though I have almost zero experience with ME, I can really appreciate that you'd go to such an effort to document the tweaks that worked well for you through that "ME" period you went through and decide to share it here for all us enthusiasts of classic OSes. Cheers to you. I have no doubt it will be useful to many folks.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
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Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
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Reply 10 of 38, by kithylin

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notsofossil wrote:

I have been using the stock Windows ME OEM version and it has been wonderful to use. It's just like Windows 98SE with new features and improvements. The unofficial service pack is certainly nice, but even un-updated Windows ME is perfectly fine, like 98SE. I really don't understand why people hate Windows ME.

I know you don't want this to be a discussion.. but most likely the reason people dislike ME is because it is notorious for being -extremely- unstable when things as simple as clicking on the start menu button sometimes causes BSOD's even on non-overclocked hardware, on vanilla installs with no drivers or software installed (It's happened to me on many different machines multiple times).

I'll admit I skimmed the guide, but has anyone ever found the root of ME's instability and found a way to patch most of it so it's actually usable?

I even once tried a WinME install in a vmware virtual machine (as "stock" as it gets), and had it BSOD loading official vmware drivers provided by the vmware tools pack. And then tried to reboot it and it crashed again before getting to the desktop, and the system was completely 'hosed' and completely unusable at that point and had to be formatted to recover.. would even BSOD trying to get in to safe mode.

It's just.. I don't know what it is but ME is impossible to actually use as an operating system. Quite a high number of people have experienced this same issue on many many different systems.. it's why it was regarded as one of the worst things microsoft ever created.

Even most computers that shipped OEM's like Dell, HP, Gateway that shipped new computers with ME on them would crash the first time turned on just trying to open the included programs.

Don't get me wrong.. I like ME and I would really like to use it. I just can't seem to get it to actually function as an OS and do what it's designed to do.

Reply 11 of 38, by Tetrium

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I see I'm starting to get more attention here 😁

Anyway, added some information about hardware specs concerning the usability of Windows ME.

Don't get me wrong.. I like ME and I would really like to use it. I just can't seem to get it to actually function as an OS and do what it's designed to do.

Don't get me wrong, but we don't typically only use these OS's in the way these OS's were designed to do 😜 (like gaming on Windows 2k and installing Windows on hardware that was not supposed to support it).

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 12 of 38, by kithylin

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Tetrium wrote:
I see I'm starting to get more attention here :D […]
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I see I'm starting to get more attention here 😁

Anyway, added some information about hardware specs concerning the usability of Windows ME.

Don't get me wrong.. I like ME and I would really like to use it. I just can't seem to get it to actually function as an OS and do what it's designed to do.

Don't get me wrong, but we don't typically only use these OS's in the way these OS's were designed to do 😜 (like gaming on Windows 2k and installing Windows on hardware that was not supposed to support it).

Since you seem to know an awful lot more about Windows ME than.................. Anyone I've ever met........ I'll pose a quick questions for you on the maximum side.

You listed 1GB ram... will ME Actually run with 1GB ram? Does it cause any stability or other issues? (Win98se for example gets 'stupid' if over 512 MB)
You listed 128 GB Hard drive... Will WinME do this and run okay? (Win98 SE for example, almost absolutely requires 20GB partition/drive for where it's installed / root, or it starts getting 'stupid' and unstable)

Does it have the same hardware restrictions (512 MB / 20 GB) like Win98se does?

All of this may of been why I've had instability and crashing problems if I was loading it on hardware that surpassed it's maximum limits.... 😲

Reply 14 of 38, by notsofossil

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kithylin wrote:
I know you don't want this to be a discussion.. but most likely the reason people dislike ME is because it is notorious for bein […]
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I know you don't want this to be a discussion.. but most likely the reason people dislike ME is because it is notorious for being -extremely- unstable when things as simple as clicking on the start menu button sometimes causes BSOD's even on non-overclocked hardware, on vanilla installs with no drivers or software installed (It's happened to me on many different machines multiple times).

I'll admit I skimmed the guide, but has anyone ever found the root of ME's instability and found a way to patch most of it so it's actually usable?

I even once tried a WinME install in a vmware virtual machine (as "stock" as it gets), and had it BSOD loading official vmware drivers provided by the vmware tools pack. And then tried to reboot it and it crashed again before getting to the desktop, and the system was completely 'hosed' and completely unusable at that point and had to be formatted to recover.. would even BSOD trying to get in to safe mode.

It's just.. I don't know what it is but ME is impossible to actually use as an operating system. Quite a high number of people have experienced this same issue on many many different systems.. it's why it was regarded as one of the worst things microsoft ever created.

Even most computers that shipped OEM's like Dell, HP, Gateway that shipped new computers with ME on them would crash the first time turned on just trying to open the included programs.

Don't get me wrong.. I like ME and I would really like to use it. I just can't seem to get it to actually function as an OS and do what it's designed to do.

Do I have to make a YouTube video of stock Windows ME running on a run-of-the-mill PC with the correct drivers installed in order for people to believe?

Also, VMWare is the total opposite of "stock". Those tools were written long after Windows ME was discontinued. A proper test would be using a computer that was released around 2000, or a bit older. I'm not surprised in the least you had problems. Virtual Machines suck anyway.

kithylin wrote:

You listed 1GB ram... will ME Actually run with 1GB ram? Does it cause any stability or other issues? (Win98se for example gets 'stupid' if over 512 MB)

Yes, it's perfectly usable for me. Any amount of RAM over 1GB isn't recognized though.

Tested on a Intel 855PM mobo chipset + Pentium M 1.6GHz. Also an Asus P4B533-VM desktop board with a Pentium 4 2.4GHz.

You listed 128 GB Hard drive... Will WinME do this and run okay? (Win98 SE for example, almost absolutely requires 20GB partition/drive for where it's installed / root, or it starts getting 'stupid' and unstable)

Yes, perfectly usable. I have used a 120GB IDE HDD on the above Pentium M system.

All of this may of been why I've had instability and crashing problems if I was loading it on hardware that surpassed it's maximum limits.... 😲

I think it stems from shitty drivers or using broken programs or using Windows ME Retail/Upgrade...

Does anyone here realize Windows ME Retail will not boot on its own? You have to run it from the desktop of your pre-existing Windows install. Go OEM all the time.

Last edited by notsofossil on 2016-05-26, 00:53. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 38, by Tetrium

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kithylin wrote:
Since you seem to know an awful lot more about Windows ME than.................. Anyone I've ever met........ I'll pose a quick […]
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Since you seem to know an awful lot more about Windows ME than.................. Anyone I've ever met........ I'll pose a quick questions for you on the maximum side.

You listed 1GB ram... will ME Actually run with 1GB ram? Does it cause any stability or other issues? (Win98se for example gets 'stupid' if over 512 MB)
You listed 128 GB Hard drive... Will WinME do this and run okay? (Win98 SE for example, almost absolutely requires 20GB partition/drive for where it's installed / root, or it starts getting 'stupid' and unstable)

Does it have the same hardware restrictions (512 MB / 20 GB) like Win98se does?

All of this may of been why I've had instability and crashing problems if I was loading it on hardware that surpassed it's maximum limits.... 😲

I listed the kinda maximum specs mostly for completeness and with the intent of listing maximum practical specs and not necessarily the maximum specs ME can be made to run on. I suppose it's possible to get ME (or any 9x) running on a Barton 3200+, but I'd prefer using something like Windows XP on such hardware.

And obviously theres always room for errors, so if you spot any, please let me know so I can fix those 😀.

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 16 of 38, by Tetrium

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notsofossil wrote:

Does anyone here realize Windows ME Retail will not boot on its own? You have to run it from the desktop of your pre-existing Windows install. Go OEM all the time.

The retail package came with a boot floppy I think?
Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense selling a separate (non-upgrade) OS without the user actually being able to install it, right? 😁

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 18 of 38, by Tetrium

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:

I think I got to get myself a Windows ME disc 😀

I got both OEM and retail versions (the retail one being in a large box filled mostly with air 😁).

And it's relatively easy to create an image of a non-bootable ME install disk and make it bootable. I even created bootable Windows ME msbatched install disks this way.

And I hope you find one, please refrain from mentioning me in one of your vids if the thing decides to explode into a huge mushroom cloud 😜.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 19 of 38, by hyoenmadan

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Many of the stability problems who users faced comes by ACPI itself.

Long story says that both Win98 and WinME come with a version of the WDM OSPM driver, ACPI.sys, which was backported from NT to Win9x OS family. Win98 comes with a driver taken from NT5 beta, while WinME one was taken from Win2000 RTM branch. Both have critical bugs, and don't like post 2001 ACPI tables too much... But ironically 98 version (from NT5 Beta) seems less invasive intro the system than ME (from Win2k) version, that's why you don't see the same unstability bug as with WinME. Win 98 uses it to configure the PnP resource tree and a bit more, while ME version goes very deep intro system function, like hardware initialization, in such way the bugs of these older versions of the OSPM driver get amplified.

As side note, you guys can see Win2k RTM, SP1 and SP2 are also unstable when it comes to PCs using ACPI for resource configuration and hardware initialization. Only SP3 fixed ACPI instablilty, in the time that WinXP came and ended with Win2k. Wasn't until WinXP SP1 when machines configured via ACPI became totally stable systems and all the bugs were eliminated. So isn't a problem isolated only to WinME. As proof try to install Win2k RTM in a post 2001 machine with ACPI enabled.You will see how fast it bombs, just like ME.

To overcome this stability problem, install WinME with ACPI support disabled.