Hey people here is what wondering about. Can old Windows Direct 3D games in software mode be any better depending on the computer's CPU? If you know of what CPU is great for some games that uses software mode please let me know, I'm curious.
wrote:Can old Windows Direct 3D games in software mode
A game running in "software mode" is by definition running independently of the graphics hardware (and is thus not technically Direct 3D).
Can you provide an example of such a game?
Yes. 3DMark's 03-05 CPU tests, show that (on Win 7 or older).
Best CPU for sofware render mode must have highest IPC and Frequency available + IMC inside is recommended. I would say at least two Cores should be inside (3-4 is optimal, I think).
@up "is not Direct 3D"... M$ WARP ?
Source : LINK
Old(er) games can have a "Direct 3D SW" mode available (as well as Direct 3D HW).
wrote:Yes. 3DMark's 03-05 CPU tests, show that (on Win 7 or older).
The CPU tests don't actually render everything on the CPU, they just use a very low resolution so that the GPU has little or no effect on the total score. They also use software vertex processing.
See the whitepaper: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-aws.futurema … -whitepaper.pdf
wrote:The CPU tests don't actually render everything on the CPU, they just use a very low resolution so that the GPU has little or no effect on the total score. They also use software vertex processing.
See the whitepaper: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-aws.futurema … -whitepaper.pdf
True. But when something has to be run in software, it generally isn't faster than hardware solution. That's why I think, even if it's only Vertex Shader code, a better CPU will give additional perormance.
Well it depends what your trying to do, right now I think the most current CPU's could maybe emulate DX8 at a playable framerate, but I think SM2 software emulation is still a pipedream for playability, it can be done but its to slow to be useful
wrote:wrote:Can old Windows Direct 3D games in software mode
A game running in "software mode" is by definition running independently of the graphics hardware (and is thus not technically Direct 3D).
Can you provide an example of such a game?
Lego Creator depending on a real type of Pentium
wrote:@up "is not Direct 3D"... M$ WARP ?
WARP is great. I remember after installing Win8.1 thinking that the graphics driver had already been installed because the monitor was running at its native 2560x1440. All of the window/start screen animations were running at 60fps as well. I was amazed when I found out that it was using software rendering that entire time.
The lack of V-sync on YouTube videos is what finally gave it away. 😀
94 MHz NEC VR4300 | SGI Reality CoPro | 8MB RDRAM | Each game gets its own SSD - nooice!
Hah, an interesting example of this being the other way, but in a good way is this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RG29N0cLHE
Lego Island will run too fast to play in D3D/GL mode like an old 4.77 IBM PC game on a faster 80x86 chip. It's only playable in software mode.
wrote:Best CPU for software render mode must have highest IPC and Frequency available + IMC inside is recommended. I would say at least two Cores should be inside (3-4 is optimal, I think).
Do you know of any CPUs in mind that have that?
Simply put : You need fastest single thread available (since I doubt old software will use more than two cores/threads).
If you want to go cheap and be 100% Win XP compatible, a good start would be OC'ed Phenom II (with biggest L3 cache), or Core i5's 1-st gen (Quad Core only, because i5 6xx series and lower have slower IMC's than full quads).
From newer CPU's :
Pentium G3258 OC'ed, should be a great and cheap CPU for this (but Win XP support on it... is "tricky" at best 🙁).
Best CPU would be the newest/fastest Core i5 (currently i5 6600k is "the top dog").
The big question is : How much $$$ you want to sink into project like this, and do you want to OC the CPU (if OC is out of the question, search for highest clocked locked versions).
To clarify :
I DID NOT tested how those CPU's behave in software render.
I only pointed out those that (to me), have best chance at doing what needs to be done.
PS. Fast RAM is higly recommended (lowest timings with highest clock speed, I don't khow how what is more important for old soft render, ie. Bandwidth or Latency).
Last thing... Windows 10 HATES DX9 software renderer from 3DMark 03 and 05.
Oh and do you know any of old Pentiums for like Windows 95 Direct 3D applications that have great Software rendering?
wrote:Oh and do you know any of old Pentiums for like Windows 95 Direct 3D applications that have great Software rendering?
Putting aside MMX for the moment, one Pentium 1 is pretty much just like any other Pentium 1; the only difference is speed. What are you expecting here?
If you are playing Lego Creator in software mode and it is too slow, then get a faster CPU. End of story.
whats "imc inside" ?
Guardian of the Sacred Five Terabyte's of Gaming Goodness
wrote:whats "imc inside" ?
IMC == Integrated Memory Controller (integrated on the CPU that is, rather than the chipset). This reduces latency and potentially improves bandwidth, both of which are important for software rendering.
wrote:wrote:Oh and do you know any of old Pentiums for like Windows 95 Direct 3D applications that have great Software rendering?
Putting aside MMX for the moment, one Pentium 1 is pretty much just like any other Pentium 1; the only difference is speed. What are you expecting here?
If you are playing Lego Creator in software mode and it is too slow, then get a faster CPU. End of story.
I was wondering if the software rendering for that game is any great on a Pentium II.
wrote:I was wondering if the software rendering for that game is any great on a Pentium II.
A Pentium II is generally faster than a Pentium 1, so a game using software rendering will probably be faster. Why do you think it would be otherwise?
wrote:wrote:wrote:Oh and do you know any of old Pentiums for like Windows 95 Direct 3D applications that have great Software rendering?
Putting aside MMX for the moment, one Pentium 1 is pretty much just like any other Pentium 1; the only difference is speed. What are you expecting here?
If you are playing Lego Creator in software mode and it is too slow, then get a faster CPU. End of story.
I was wondering if the software rendering for that game is any great on a Pentium II.
i suspect you assume that CPUs have different instructions helping with software rendering, like the various GPU architectures of the time, probably in the hope to get better visuals. If that is the case I must disappoint you, that does not exist. Software rendering is exactly what it says on the tin, a rendering path purely done in software. It will look the same on any cpu it will work on, with the only difference being performance. And that is intentional. It was most prominently used as a fallback in the case that supported GPU Hardware was not available.
wrote:wrote:I was wondering if the software rendering for that game is any great on a Pentium II.
A Pentium II is generally faster than a Pentium 1, so a game using software rendering will probably be faster. Why do you think it would be otherwise?
Because for now on I would like to play it on the original Windows os like Windows 95 by replicating the old DOS computer I had back when I was like 2 with a emulator called PCem. I don't think the next version will have it because the dynamic recomplier is not fast enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCem
So, your problem is that you want to run Lego Creator in PCem, but it runs too slowly? Then that's just too bad. There's nothing you can do about it except maybe wait for faster computers to become affordable.
