I managed to get it working for a second, Planet X3 loaded up and played for a minute. Restarting the game to change to a different video mode killed it again. I have no idea what I did.

Anyways, here's the YouTube video I mentioned I'd post:
https://youtu.be/vCVrq7cmRNo

If I can't get this PAS16 card to work, I was going to give up and use a SoundBlaster Vibra 16C instead, but I can't find any drivers anywhere for it. I can't even find a good picture of it online or a record on TH99.
The main chip says "ViBRA 16C (C) CREATIVE TECH '95 CT2505-TDQ2 9704-SS1890C2" and across the long edge of the board is the text "P/N: SF16-FMI-03" which brings up pictures on Google.

First, the PAS16 is not a PnP card. It's configured using software and stores its settings in an EEPROM. The EEPROM often fails on such early non-PNP jumperless cards. Also, the PAS16 is not an easy card to work with, as it is not a Sound Blaster clone. It has a separate chip (Thunderboard) for SB Pro compatibility. Because of this, it requires twice as much resources and the chance of having resource conflicts is much higher.

As for the Vibra 16, that's just a single-chip SB16. You don't need any drivers for it. All you need is CTCM or ICU to do the PnP init.

Where do I get CTCM or ICU from? How do I use them? I don't know anything about SoundBlasters or any other sound cards.

I really only want AdLib / SB1 and 2 emulation. I don't care about what other features any of these cards might have.
Is there a way to exchange the EEPROM and keep the card working? Seems like a nice card regardless. Might be nice to have SCSI later on.

you have to load MVSOUND.SYS on every startup to soft-configure the PAS16 in order to use it at all. It's more or less the same situation as the SB16s that require DIAGNOSE /S

maxtherabbit wrote:

you have to load MVSOUND.SYS on every startup to soft-configure the PAS16 in order to use it at all. It's more or less the same situation as the SB16s that require DIAGNOSE /S

It is loaded on every startup, it's in CONFIG.SYS. I even disabled QRAM to see if that was causing an issue, and no difference.

What SCSI drive are you using ?

Intel486dx33 wrote:

What SCSI drive are you using ?

I am not using SCSI at all. I just want AdLib / SoundBlaster compatibility for a couple pieces of software. The rest of it will be completely disabled.

Also, it's worth mentioning that this is a 286, so anything that requires a 386 won't worth without EMU386.

Does EMU386 affect performance in games / applications?

I have used many MV PAS16 in 386 and 486 builds but not any 286 so my knowledge is limited here. They are not all EEprom, most have jumpers (J2) and jumpers behind the IN/OUT jacks plus (depending on the exact card) jumpers for the cdrom interface. J2 is typically down by the ISA slot connectors and sets the base card address. I will attach some pics from the manual so you can experiment. One note on J2: try with 5-6 jumped instead of the Default all off.
What is the MVSOUND.SYS line in your config.sys ?
As for the Vibra card it is probably a CT-4100 series and may be a bit to new for running on your 286 though one person here did (Getting Sound Blaster 16 Vibra to work under DOS) but the the resources needed will eat up a bunch of the lower ram iirc.

FAMICOMASTER wrote:

Also, it's worth mentioning that this is a 286, so anything that requires a 386 won't worth without EMU386.

Does EMU386 affect performance in games / applications?

Not that I know of. I had got a PAS16 with on-board SCSi installed in a 286-12 (Siemens chip ?) in the 90s.
Worked fine for me both in Windows 3.1 and plain DOS. The Thunderboard part was enabled and games detected a SB no problem.

OPL3 was also available to games and Windows. What derSammler said about resources might be true on 486 or higher systems.
On a "normal" 286 with one IDE channel and a few COM/LPT ports, the PAS16 shouldn't cause no resource conflict.
Yes, the PAS16's native part requires some extra IRQs, DMA lines and Port I/Os, but these are usually those not used on a 286/386, anyway.
One of the IRQs used is the second IDE channel, for example, if memory serves. 😀
(Edit: The SB16 also requires an extra IRQ and DMA in comparison to an original 8-Bit SB card.)

Anyway, I experienced issues with EMM386 and an dditional OPL3 card (SB16 CT1740) once.
EMM386 caused weird stuff, and the other OPL3 caused a conflict with the PAS16 base address (388/389h, same as OPL3).

Edit: PAS16 cards do have jumpers for special stuff, like setting each card's ID in a multi-PAS16 scenario..

Jo22 wrote:

(Edit: The SB16 also requires an extra IRQ and DMA in comparison to an original 8-Bit SB card.)

No, they don't. All Sound Blasters only use one IRQ, the PAS16 needs two. Also, the Vibra 16C he mentioned can even do 8- and 16-bit using a single DMA. Again, the PAS16 needs two as well.

Normally, you would choose either IRQ 5 or 7. Most people use 5, because 7 is used by LPT1. With the PAS16, you don't have much choice. As you can see from his screenshot, he needs to use IRQ 5 and 7. So there's a conflict already that you can't avoid. Probably not his problem so far, as long as he doesn't try to print, but still important to be aware of.

ps: there's no difference in resources between a 286 and a 486.

^Relax, man - take it easy. It's sunday, so let's have a nice breakfast first alltogether. ^^

The Vibra was released after the original SB16, yet a lone the PAS line.
- Let's celebrate it uniqueness and stress relieve from Creative's usual CTM/CTU Plug&Pray hell. 😉

So the PAS16 needs (speaking under correction)..

Thunderboard (optional): Port I/O (220h), IRQ (5), DMA (1)
MPU 401 (optional): Port I/O (330h), IRQ (9)
FM Synthesis : Port 388h
Native Part: Port I/O (388h), IRQ (10), DMA (3),

By comparison, the SB16 DAC part needed: Port I/O (220h), DMA (5), DMA (1)

IMHO, they are even in that respect. Or at least, not much is gained or lost in that respect.
Besides, if memory serves, the PAS16 can also use odd resources like DMA 0.
And if Thunderboard is disabled, it uses less resources than the old Sound Blasters, even.
(On PAS16, 388h is both FM and DAC base address).

Edit: Minor fix.
Edit:

ps: there's no difference in resources between a 286 and a 486.

My apologies, I meant to say that some 486es (but higher end PCs, -Pentium PCs- mainly) had additional resources installed.
For example, 486 PCs from the 90s often had several on-board controllers or came with expansions cards pre-installed.
IDE, Floppy controllers and such. By comparison, the average 286 and 386 systems were using Baby-AT motherboards
with not much extra hardware. Sure, there were exceptions, too. Some had VGA on-board. Or a bus mouse interface on-board.
Pentium/586 PCs were had a much higher integration density and contained ACPI (IRQ 9), APIC and enhanced system timer (APIT ?),
along with two IDE controllers, using both IRQ14/15 if configured for legacy mode.

Horun wrote:

I have used many MV PAS16 in 386 and 486 builds but not any 286 so my knowledge is limited here. They are not all EEprom, most have jumpers (J2) and jumpers behind the IN/OUT jacks plus (depending on the exact card) jumpers for the cdrom interface. J2 is typically down by the ISA slot connectors and sets the base card address. I will attach some pics from the manual so you can experiment. One note on J2: try with 5-6 jumped instead of the Default all off.
What is the MVSOUND.SYS line in your config.sys ?
As for the Vibra card it is probably a CT-4100 series and may be a bit to new for running on your 286 though one person here did (Getting Sound Blaster 16 Vibra to work under DOS) but the the resources needed will eat up a bunch of the lower ram iirc.

The Vibra card is a "CT-2505." I got it to work under DOS with the "SBPNPXT" program I found online. My Autoexec looks like this:

1SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H1 P330 T2
2SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
3C:\DOS\SBPNPXT.EXE

My PAS16 card has two jumpers labelled J3 and J4. They're in the middle of the card, right above the edge of the 16-bit slot.
J4 has two pins and J3 has 6. J4 is set to 2-3 closed and J3 all are open. It's at port address 388h and DMA sharing is off.
This gets intermittent digital operation and very broken FM.
I'm not trying to set up the SCSI part, I don't need it. If I can disable it, that would be great.

The setup line in config.sys is as follows:

1DEVICE=C:\PROAUDIO\MVSOUND.SYS D:3 Q:7 S:1,220,1,5 M:0 J:1

I thought QRAM might be interfering but disabling it made no difference, so the second line (which is REM'd out) is this:

1DEVICE=C:\UTILS\QRAM\LOADHI.SYS /R:2 /RES=11904 /SQF C:\PROAUDIO\MVSOUND.SYS D:3 Q:7 S:1,220,1,5 M:0 J:1

Both are the default settings that the installer set.

Jo22 wrote:

OPL3 was also available to games and Windows. What derSammler said about resources might be true on 486 or higher systems.

Yeah, this has Thunderboard and YMF262M on the board.

On a "normal" 286 with one IDE channel and a few COM/LPT ports, the PAS16 shouldn't cause no resource conflict.

I'm not even using an IDE channel, this has a DTC 7287 RLL controller installed with one hard disk. No ATA here.
I've got COM1 for a mouse, COM2 is free (but not detected), and COM4 is for an internal modem.
I've got LPT1 for a printer but it's not connected at the moment.

I don't know what resources it's trying to use outside of the diagnostic program, I can't see anything else.

Yes, the PAS16's native part requires some extra IRQs, DMA lines and Port I/Os, but these are usually those not used on a 286/386, anyway.
One of the IRQs used is the second IDE channel, for example, if memory serves. 😀
(Edit: The SB16 also requires an extra IRQ and DMA in comparison to an original 8-Bit SB card.)

I don't have any IDE channels, and I don't have a second hard disk or controller installed, so it shouldn't be an issue, right?

derSammler wrote:

Normally, you would choose either IRQ 5 or 7. Most people use 5, because 7 is used by LPT1. With the PAS16, you don't have much choice. As you can see from his screenshot, he needs to use IRQ 5 and 7. So there's a conflict already that you can't avoid. Probably not his problem so far, as long as he doesn't try to print, but still important to be aware of.

There will never be an instance where I'm using sound and printing at the same time, I can promise you that much.

FAMICOMASTER wrote:

My PAS16 card has two jumpers labelled J3 and J4. They're in the middle of the card, right above the edge of the 16-bit slot. J4 […]
Show full quote

My PAS16 card has two jumpers labelled J3 and J4. They're in the middle of the card, right above the edge of the 16-bit slot. J4 has two pins and J3 has 6. J4 is set to 2-3 closed and J3 all are open. It's at port address 388h and DMA sharing is off. This gets intermittent digital operation and very broken FM.
I'm not trying to set up the SCSI part, I don't need it. If I can disable it, that would be great.

The setup line in config.sys is as follows:

Copy code to clipboard

1DEVICE=C:\PROAUDIO\MVSOUND.SYS D:3 Q:7 S:1,220,1,5 M:0 J:1

I thought QRAM might be interfering but disabling it made no difference, so the second line (which is REM'd out) is this:

Copy code to clipboard

1DEVICE=C:\UTILS\QRAM\LOADHI.SYS /R:2 /RES=11904 /SQF C:\PROAUDIO\MVSOUND.SYS D:3 Q:7 S:1,220,1,5 M:0 J:1

Both are the default settings that the installer set.

Ok. Sounds like a PAS16 Rev. D. J3 sets the ID or card address, all off and the card defaults to 388h. The config line looks good.
Things I would try:
1.reclean the cards edge connectors with 99% Isopropyl alc on paper towel.
2. If a Turbo 286 run it non-turbo
3.If you got the drivers from here then mvsound.sys should be v3.23 or 3.24, the very latest is 3.26. You could grab my zip and overwrite your current.
4. lock the address by jumping J3 pins 5-6 to force 388h. http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/i/M-O/53365.htm
Cannot think of anything else...unless the card is faulty or it just does not get along with your boards BIOS or chipset.

Added: "The Vibra card is a "CT-2505."" Nice ! do not think I have seen a ct-2000 series with the Vibra chip.

That's actually the TH99 article I linked in my original post, believe it or not.

It is a turbo 286 running at 20MHz, but the bus is at 8MHz. Configured by jumpers on the motherboard not to use the higher bus speed. I don't think my 100ns DRAMs could take any faster anyways.

I'll try your drivers here shortly. Apparently whatever the installer did to Windows last time ended up making it not start anymore. Fault outside of DOS extenders? Do I need to reinstall Windows now? Hopefully not.

I'll close the jumper to see if that helps. It's an Award 3.03 BIOS and a Chips & Tech NEAT chipset, if that means anything.
The computer boots fine with the card installed, and it seems that the digital portion of the card works flawlessly (diagnostics program detects no problems at all) but the FM and Thunderboard parts don't seem to work. Programs that autodetect SB Pro don't see it, games that use AdLib are silent when running, and the diagnostics program plays a series of garbage notes.

The joystick problem from earlier is solved - Turns out the AST Advantage had a joystick port that was enabled, even though the header wasn't even populated.

When setting up the card, I noticed that the SB Pro IRQ and DMA addresses for the Thunderboard don't seem to work properly in the default settings. Changing them will get it to play samples, but never FM. The diagnostic program also doesn't seem to be able to tell where the SB Pro portion is even mapped to, just the base address but no idea of the IRQ or DMA.

IIRC, Thunderboard is a clone of SB 2.0, not SB Pro. So you will probably not get any SB Pro-specific software to work. OTOH, most games never really differentiated at the user level. It would either just detect and use whatever capabilities it found, or would only use SB capabilities anyway.

From an FM perspective, once MVSound.sys has initialized the hardware, it should "just work" like an ordinary Ad Lib.

SCSI support is provided by MVSound.sys as well, I believe. I don't remember there being a separate driver, aside from the usual ASPI stuff for disks or CD-ROMs.

As to why it's erratic, if the resources are configured correctly and conflict-free, I don't know what else to suggest. Can you try it in a different (preferably later) computer? Could be compatibility or a bad card, at this rate.

SirNickity wrote:

IIRC, Thunderboard is a clone of SB 2.0, not SB Pro. So you will probably not get any SB Pro-specific software to work. OTOH, most games never really differentiated at the user level. It would either just detect and use whatever capabilities it found, or would only use SB capabilities anyway.

The program I am trying to use, called MIDPak, is a MIDI player that uses the FM part of an SB Pro to play midis. It's nothing special and I'd be open to other MIDI players for PC speaker / AdLib compatibility that will run on a 286.

From an FM perspective, once MVSound.sys has initialized the hardware, it should "just work" like an ordinary Ad Lib.

But I get absolutely nothing in most software, and in the diagnostics program I get a few wonky sounding notes and nothing else.

As to why it's erratic, if the resources are configured correctly and conflict-free, I don't know what else to suggest. Can you try it in a different (preferably later) computer? Could be compatibility or a bad card, at this rate.

The only other machines I have with ISA right now are an IBM 512K AT motherboard and a turbo XT with a V20 in it. I really don't think either would be that much different.

I have another, similar card laying around somewhere, and I have a Pentium 100-S in storage with ISA slots I can pull out. It has Windows 98SE and an ESS AudioDrive installed. I don't have any desktop 386 or 486 machines that work, just one or two stray corroded 486 boards I felt like I might pull parts off of someday. Think a Pentium S will work? I believe it's PCISet.