VOGONS


First post, by Panties

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Hi Vogons,

I saved this baby from Trash - ABIT AB-BH6 Slot1.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Roj19I__TsZj … iew?usp=sharing
https://soggi.org/motherboards/abit/BH6.htm

It is running Pentium 2 233Mhz, beside the BIOS battery and Quantum Fireball HDD dead, everything else is in perfect health.
However.......

Here's a few things I want to clarify:-

1. Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jVlcUAkCrIG … Xo9JUrcXRlC9MMV
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V70a2S7dwzK … GHHayt9PHCw8DUw
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SDj0IFm9mm6 … UV-AXdYEK4N7W3T

Does anyone have this soundcard? If yes, please share your experience on this card...

2. Quasar ISA Card

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1S59rWkXEJX8 … _JXVqrx3YiZIBHg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SArs-HQ-2Mk … W7CqMMAPBVily4E

What is this card? Anyone own this card before? What does it do? Help me to identify it... (Google Search couldn't help me on this...)

3. 6326AGP-E Rev2.1 8MB VGA

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RpANPQUJrW3 … z6PWmajrIWYyQXa
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1S10aqkzYJKk … 2hnbkvcFXJhoWcn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiS_6326

A quick googling, I believe this is a SIS 6326AGP Card. Am I right?
Is this card, any good for early DOS gaming.. like.. early 80s? or is this Trash? Should I replace this with Voodoo3? or just combo with Voodoo 2 SLI?


These are the cards that I found, came with the ABIT AB-BH6 Slot 1 PC.
Will this machine, is good enough for old 80s DOS gaming? How about the Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard, for DOS compatibility? good?
Thus can I slow down this machine, to play old DOS games that are sensetive to speed? (Slow down till 386 or 486?)

I want to build this as an old Gaming machine.. maybe DOS/Win95/98....
But before I get my hands dirty.........
Please share your thoughts.... I want to hear your thoughts/ideas/advice.... Thank you in advance..... 😀 😀

Reply 1 of 8, by Horun

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That Quasar card is a BIOS add-on adapter like a DTC1181, it probably gives support for large HD's. There are two rev's to AB-BH6 so if you decide to flash it's bios be very careful as the bios versions must match the board revs. https://soggi.org/motherboards/abit/BH6.htm
Have a ct2940 but no CT2960, in general the SB16 PNP cards are decent specially for Win9x builds and have DOS support.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 8, by dionb

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As for the Vibra, see here:
Sound Blaster: From best to worst

CT2960 isn't the worst, but it's not great:
- CQM, not OPL3 (so old 'AdLib' music might sound a bit harsh).
- Pretty much every kind of Soundblaster MIDI bug out there. Don't use this card for MIDI.
- Singing/hissing after playing a digital sample
- Vibra clipping too.
At least it isn't a noisy card... that said, it's a Soundblaster and will just work in most cases.

For video card DOS compatibility:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

SiS 6326 is better than average, but far from perfect. S3, 3dfx and early nVidia are generally the best options for VESA.

But...

You mention early 1980s. Then you can ignore VESA compatibility, as that's pre-VGA. VGA (*any* VGA card) is generally backwards software-compatible with EGA and CGA (TTL-mode, not composite), but not with Hercules. Note however that a lot of really old games are made for a 4MHz CPU and will be unplayable on a P2/P3 platform, even if you use all hardware (drop clocks, disable cache) and software (MoSlo) tools available.

Don't quite understand your reference to Voodoos in this context, they are also late 1990s cards and won't make the slightest difference with 1980s DOS performance or compatibility. The only Voodoo there are DOS games for is the Voodoo 1, although it's a short list, accelerated 3D is mainly a Windows thing.

Reply 3 of 8, by Panties

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Horun wrote on 2020-02-16, 17:21:

That Quasar card is a BIOS add-on adapter like a DTC1181, it probably gives support for large HD's. There are two rev's to AB-BH6 so if you decide to flash it's bios be very careful as the bios versions must match the board revs. https://soggi.org/motherboards/abit/BH6.htm
Have a ct2940 but no CT2960, in general the SB16 PNP cards are decent specially for Win9x builds and have DOS support.

Great. Okay, so basically, I don't need to flash the BIOS to the latest version, otherwise, it wont be compatible to Quasar card. Thanks! I will put the card, back into the ISA slot that it came from...

dionb wrote on 2020-02-16, 18:50:
As for the Vibra, see here: Sound Blaster: From best to worst […]
Show full quote

As for the Vibra, see here:
Sound Blaster: From best to worst

CT2960 isn't the worst, but it's not great:
- CQM, not OPL3 (so old 'AdLib' music might sound a bit harsh).
- Pretty much every kind of Soundblaster MIDI bug out there. Don't use this card for MIDI.
- Singing/hissing after playing a digital sample
- Vibra clipping too.
At least it isn't a noisy card... that said, it's a Soundblaster and will just work in most cases.

For video card DOS compatibility:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

SiS 6326 is better than average, but far from perfect. S3, 3dfx and early nVidia are generally the best options for VESA.

But...

You mention early 1980s. Then you can ignore VESA compatibility, as that's pre-VGA. VGA (*any* VGA card) is generally backwards software-compatible with EGA and CGA (TTL-mode, not composite), but not with Hercules. Note however that a lot of really old games are made for a 4MHz CPU and will be unplayable on a P2/P3 platform, even if you use all hardware (drop clocks, disable cache) and software (MoSlo) tools available.

Don't quite understand your reference to Voodoos in this context, they are also late 1990s cards and won't make the slightest difference with 1980s DOS performance or compatibility. The only Voodoo there are DOS games for is the Voodoo 1, although it's a short list, accelerated 3D is mainly a Windows thing.

a. Yes, I did mentioned 1980s, as I thought to re-build it like "all in one 80s-2000s" Gaming Era! 🤣! 😁 hehehe... since that's not possible, I will re-built it accordingly to the P2 era gaming....
b. Thanks for sharing the link. I check the SoundCard compatible list, and OMG, This SoundCard have hanging note bug! I want to couple it up with an external Midi, but, oh well, I'll just go along with it...
c. For VGA, I saw the complete sheet. Yeah, this card is so-so, ain't perfect. hmm... You mentioned nvidia. I do have Riva TNT2 lying somewhere. Perhaps this machine, I'll just go for 90s instead, because I have another P1 200 Mhz MMX for that... so it's fine.

Thank you guys for pointing me to the right direction. I'll google up on what games to play, on this P2... Any recommendation?

Reply 4 of 8, by dionb

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Panties wrote on 2020-02-17, 02:54:

[...]

a. Yes, I did mentioned 1980s, as I thought to re-build it like "all in one 80s-2000s" Gaming Era! 🤣! 😁 hehehe... since that's not possible, I will re-built it accordingly to the P2 era gaming....
b. Thanks for sharing the link. I check the SoundCard compatible list, and OMG, This SoundCard have hanging note bug! I want to couple it up with an external Midi, but, oh well, I'll just go along with it...

Hang on, this is Sound Blaster bug list. There are other sound cards with hanging note issues (such as Mediavision's Pro Audio Spectrum 16), but they are few and far between. There are more than enough sound cards without hanging note problems - pretty much anything with chips by Aztech, ESS or Yamaha is a safe bet on that front.

c. For VGA, I saw the complete sheet. Yeah, this card is so-so, ain't perfect. hmm... You mentioned nvidia. I do have Riva TNT2 lying somewhere. Perhaps this machine, I'll just go for 90s instead, because I have another P1 200 Mhz MMX for that... so it's fine.

TNT2 is a bit newer than P2-233, but the combination should work fine and has very good DOS VESA compatibility and good Direct3D too.

Reply 5 of 8, by Panties

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dionb wrote on 2020-02-17, 18:47:
Hang on, this is Sound Blaster bug list. There are other sound cards with hanging note issues (such as Mediavision's Pro Audio S […]
Show full quote
Panties wrote on 2020-02-17, 02:54:

[...]

a. Yes, I did mentioned 1980s, as I thought to re-build it like "all in one 80s-2000s" Gaming Era! 🤣! 😁 hehehe... since that's not possible, I will re-built it accordingly to the P2 era gaming....
b. Thanks for sharing the link. I check the SoundCard compatible list, and OMG, This SoundCard have hanging note bug! I want to couple it up with an external Midi, but, oh well, I'll just go along with it...

Hang on, this is Sound Blaster bug list. There are other sound cards with hanging note issues (such as Mediavision's Pro Audio Spectrum 16), but they are few and far between. There are more than enough sound cards without hanging note problems - pretty much anything with chips by Aztech, ESS or Yamaha is a safe bet on that front.

c. For VGA, I saw the complete sheet. Yeah, this card is so-so, ain't perfect. hmm... You mentioned nvidia. I do have Riva TNT2 lying somewhere. Perhaps this machine, I'll just go for 90s instead, because I have another P1 200 Mhz MMX for that... so it's fine.

TNT2 is a bit newer than P2-233, but the combination should work fine and has very good DOS VESA compatibility and good Direct3D too.

Hmm.. okay, here's another thing :-
a. External Midi players, are meant or mostly build, for older DOS games, right(like Monkey Island 1/2, Doom.. etc)?
Since Pentium 2 is not able to slow down(say slow till 386 or 486) to accommodate older DOS games, than it is pretty much suitable for Windows 9x/XP games, right? (like Tomb Raider 2, Star Wars Jedi Knight...)
Therefore, I could just proceed to use this Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard that came with it, since I am not going to use any External Midi for that Hanging Bug-Midi port, right?



b. For Graphic Card, what I have in my Arsenal .... (hehehe 🤣 xD ) are...
b1. 6326AGP-E Rev2.1 8MB VGA with Voodoo 2 SLI
b2. Nvidia Riva TNT 2 with Voodoo 2 SLI
b3. Voodoo 3 AGP or Voodoo 5 AGP or Voodoo....err.. rush or banshee.. i need to dig..

FYI, I must have 3dfx in it, because for games, I might test/play is Unreal, Serious Sam, Diablo 2, etc...
Pleasee.. help me make my decision... what works for Pentium 2 233Mhz?



c. For Storage... here's my plan...
c1. Primary IDE - HDD - Win95 (for Nostalgic sake 🤣 )
c2. Primary IDE - HDD - Win98 SE/XP (Dual Boot)
c3. Secondary IDE - HDD/CF/NA - (I am still not sure, Win7 Maybe? just to test purposes....or perhaps DOS in CF card... I am still undecided...)
c4. Seconday IDE - CD/DVD ROM/RAM - Must Have...

Definitely, No SSD.
However, I have plenty of SATA 2.5 HDD.... can I just use SATA Laptop (I will use SATA-IDE Converter) instead? Is there any "REAL" performance gain, compared with the regular desktop 3.5 HDD?

Please advice me.. help me make my decision. I'm going to slowly build it/clean it, this weekend.

Appreciate your advice/inputs on this. 👶 🤪 ... 😀

Reply 6 of 8, by Panties

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Panties wrote on 2020-02-18, 04:39:
Hmm.. okay, here's another thing :- a. External Midi players, are meant or mostly build, for older DOS games, right(like Monkey […]
Show full quote
dionb wrote on 2020-02-17, 18:47:
Hang on, this is Sound Blaster bug list. There are other sound cards with hanging note issues (such as Mediavision's Pro Audio S […]
Show full quote
Panties wrote on 2020-02-17, 02:54:

[...]

a. Yes, I did mentioned 1980s, as I thought to re-build it like "all in one 80s-2000s" Gaming Era! 🤣! 😁 hehehe... since that's not possible, I will re-built it accordingly to the P2 era gaming....
b. Thanks for sharing the link. I check the SoundCard compatible list, and OMG, This SoundCard have hanging note bug! I want to couple it up with an external Midi, but, oh well, I'll just go along with it...

Hang on, this is Sound Blaster bug list. There are other sound cards with hanging note issues (such as Mediavision's Pro Audio Spectrum 16), but they are few and far between. There are more than enough sound cards without hanging note problems - pretty much anything with chips by Aztech, ESS or Yamaha is a safe bet on that front.

c. For VGA, I saw the complete sheet. Yeah, this card is so-so, ain't perfect. hmm... You mentioned nvidia. I do have Riva TNT2 lying somewhere. Perhaps this machine, I'll just go for 90s instead, because I have another P1 200 Mhz MMX for that... so it's fine.

TNT2 is a bit newer than P2-233, but the combination should work fine and has very good DOS VESA compatibility and good Direct3D too.

Hmm.. okay, here's another thing :-
a. External Midi players, are meant or mostly build, for older DOS games, right(like Monkey Island 1/2, Doom.. etc)?
Since Pentium 2 is not able to slow down(say slow till 386 or 486) to accommodate older DOS games, than it is pretty much suitable for Windows 9x/XP games, right? (like Tomb Raider 2, Star Wars Jedi Knight...)
Therefore, I could just proceed to use this Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard that came with it, since I am not going to use any External Midi for that Hanging Bug-Midi port, right?



b. For Graphic Card, what I have in my Arsenal .... (hehehe 🤣 xD ) are...
b1. 6326AGP-E Rev2.1 8MB VGA with Voodoo 2 SLI
b2. Nvidia Riva TNT 2 with Voodoo 2 SLI
b3. Voodoo 3 AGP or Voodoo 5 AGP or Voodoo....err.. rush or banshee.. i need to dig..

FYI, I must have 3dfx in it, because for games, I might test/play is Unreal, Serious Sam, Diablo 2, etc...
Pleasee.. help me make my decision... what works for Pentium 2 233Mhz?



c. For Storage... here's my plan...
c1. Primary IDE - HDD - Win95 (for Nostalgic sake 🤣 )
c2. Primary IDE - HDD - Win98 SE/XP (Dual Boot)
c3. Secondary IDE - HDD/CF/NA - (I am still not sure, Win7 Maybe? just to test purposes....or perhaps DOS in CF card... I am still undecided...)
c4. Seconday IDE - CD/DVD ROM/RAM - Must Have...

Definitely, No SSD.
However, I have plenty of SATA 2.5 HDD.... can I just use SATA Laptop (I will use SATA-IDE Converter) instead? Is there any "REAL" performance gain, compared with the regular desktop 3.5 HDD?

Please advice me.. help me make my decision. I'm going to slowly build it/clean it, this weekend.

Appreciate your advice/inputs on this. 👶 🤪 ... 😀

Update:
SoundCard: Same
VGA: I decided to go with Voodoo Banshee.... I think it suit perfectly with the processor of that era... Thus, it should have Win95 Drivers....
Storage: After much research(googling), Ill put an CF card, just to assist with the boot selector. It's either...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub2win/
or
https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html

Then have BIOS boot to CF as default...

Reply 7 of 8, by dionb

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Panties wrote on 2020-02-18, 04:39:
[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

Hmm.. okay, here's another thing :-
a. External Midi players, are meant or mostly build, for older DOS games, right(like Monkey Island 1/2, Doom.. etc)?
Since Pentium 2 is not able to slow down(say slow till 386 or 486) to accommodate older DOS games, than it is pretty much suitable for Windows 9x/XP games, right? (like Tomb Raider 2, Star Wars Jedi Knight...)
Therefore, I could just proceed to use this Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard that came with it, since I am not going to use any External Midi for that Hanging Bug-Midi port, right?

Hang on... this computer was no good for early 1980s games, but they would not have used any sound hardware beyond the beeper. If you're talking about Monkey Island and Doom, that's not early 1980s but early 1990s. MIDI was a 1990s thing, both in DOS and Windows, and would work fine with early to mid 1990s DOS games. That was the heyday of GM MIDI. Also early Win9x games used a lot of MIDI. Windows drivers for sound cards frequently include MIDI software, but it rarely comes close to the quality of a good external module. So that MIDI module would be very much period-correct and useful for this computer. But not with that card.

Reply 8 of 8, by Panties

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dionb wrote on 2020-02-18, 08:49:
Panties wrote on 2020-02-18, 04:39:
[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

Hmm.. okay, here's another thing :-
a. External Midi players, are meant or mostly build, for older DOS games, right(like Monkey Island 1/2, Doom.. etc)?
Since Pentium 2 is not able to slow down(say slow till 386 or 486) to accommodate older DOS games, than it is pretty much suitable for Windows 9x/XP games, right? (like Tomb Raider 2, Star Wars Jedi Knight...)
Therefore, I could just proceed to use this Creative Vibra 16C CT2960 ISA SoundCard that came with it, since I am not going to use any External Midi for that Hanging Bug-Midi port, right?

Hang on... this computer was no good for early 1980s games, but they would not have used any sound hardware beyond the beeper. If you're talking about Monkey Island and Doom, that's not early 1980s but early 1990s. MIDI was a 1990s thing, both in DOS and Windows, and would work fine with early to mid 1990s DOS games. That was the heyday of GM MIDI. Also early Win9x games used a lot of MIDI. Windows drivers for sound cards frequently include MIDI software, but it rarely comes close to the quality of a good external module. So that MIDI module would be very much period-correct and useful for this computer. But not with that card.

Gosh, wow there's a lot of things I didn't know. Thanks for the heads-up. I will slowly find a replacement SoundCard, without a Hanging Note Bug. Will combo with Voodoo Banshee. 😃