Just downloaded shareware GLquake and it doesnt work 🙁 It tries to start, but the only thing it does is to resize my desktop. I'm using Win98 with Raziel's driver and V5 5500.

I'll check again my stereoscopic setup this weekend. A very nice guy just sent me some drivers that are supposed to work with any graphics card, if Wicked3D eyeScream doesn't.

gerwin wrote:

Yes, last week I stopped auto-loading fastvid with the voodoo 3, as it caused some games to appear garbled beyond recognition. Even with minimal settings (Ski or Die comes to mind).

U now use MTRRLFBE by tikbalang instead of fastvid. And I like it much better. Fastvid sometimes detects the LFB size wrongly (8MB?) and turns off other settings when I just want it to turn on LFB write combining. on top of that fastvid is somewhat slow. Ski or Die displays properly with "MTRRLFBE LFB WC", so I can just keep in the autoexec.bat.

elfuego wrote:

Just downloaded shareware GLquake and it doesnt work 🙁 It tries to start, but the only thing it does is to resize my desktop. I'm using Win98 with Raziel's driver and V5 5500.

After some intensive testing, I can confirm that stereoscopic 3D works in both Direct3D and OpenGL with 3dfx cards other than Voodoo2. I first tried the old Wicked3d eyeScream 1.15 beta because it enables resolution override with any Voodoo2, not only the Metabyte ones, and doesn't ask for the Metabyte original CD while installing. It wasn't too stable though, I could use resolution override without too much trouble, but enabling stereoscopic mode ends in a game lockup after a few minutes or even seconds. This eyeScream release comes with a control panel I think is not very user friendly, it gave me some headaches because finding the optimal settings was hard, but it is worth the effort just for the resolution override feature.

With later eyeScream releases, stereoscopy works with many other cards, as you know. I found a problem with 5.02 resease, it didn't recognize any valid resolution or refresh rate for Voodoo3, so it wasn't quite usable. Then I tried 4.12 release and it worked much better. I can enable stereoscopy in both OpenGL and Direct3D, either before entering the game or with on/off toggle hotkey at runtime, so I didn't need any of the 3D activators I had downloaded. Still not stable enough, games keep freezing in stereoscopic mode. This was worse than before, because Voodoo3 lockups hang the whole system, while Voodoo2 doesn't. EyeScream complains of incorrect settings at game loading, so it could just be a configuration problem.

The i-Art Eye3D wired PCI is not the best stereoscopic 3D system you can find. It needs to install a PCI card just to connect the glasses, while other systems use external devices or even wireless connection. And it seems to have some incompatibility problems with other stereo drivers and activators. Fortunately, Wicked3D eyeScream recognizes the Eye3D CD as an original Metabyte CD, so you can install and use it with the supported graphics cards. But later cards lack eyeScream support, and you will depend on other stereo drivers and activators. Incompatibilities will arise then.

Last thing I'd like to note is the OpenGL issue: eyeScream 2000 comes with a Glide2x wrapper. There's no Glide3x wrapper, and therefore you can't activate 3D stereo with either 3dfxvgl.dll, 3dfxogl.dll or MesaFX. WickedGL is an ABSOLUTE MUST for stereoscopic support in OpenGL games, I told you!!!

batracio wrote:

elfuego wrote:

Just downloaded shareware GLquake and it doesnt work 🙁 It tries to start, but the only thing it does is to resize my desktop. I'm using Win98 with Raziel's driver and V5 5500.

After some intensive testing, I can confirm that stereoscopic 3D works in both Direct3D and OpenGL with 3dfx cards other than Voodoo2.

Alright, then do what you can to run NFS3 and NFS4 in Glide + stereo on a Voodoo3/4/5 and post results please! 😀

I also reactivated the stereo rig and I managed to get UT'99 running again in glide + stereo with 4.11 driver, but it really looks sad. I also tried Wing Commander demo which also kind of works (sad+bad). What games did you test?

One mode question for the end - did you try to update the WickedGL driver (wrapper) that the eye3D uses manually? Maybe we can force the glide3x to load... Also, did you try to use eye3D with some newer video cards (GF3/4/5/6, or Radeon 9800/x800)?

I replaced the heatsink on my Voodoo 3 2000. Removed the original heatsink with a razor then attached a bigger heatsink with two M3 bolts. I still think the card gets very hot even when I am not doing anything 3D. Now I consider underclocking the card by default. I can always raise the clock again in windows when necessary.

As I cannot find a clock setting utility for Dos (who has one?), I might just edit the BIOS of the card with tdfxbioseditor_1.61.exe so it runs like a Voodoo 3 1000.

119-04-2011 GB, INFO FROM BIOS FILES:
2VOODOO 3 PLLCtrl
3TYPE   1000       2000      3000      3500     3000/O.C.
4MHZ    125,090    143,182   166,091   183,750  200,455
5K      1          1         1         1        1
6M      11         1         3         1        3
7N      225        58        114       75       138

Gerwin, are you considering underclocking your V3 2000 card because you are concerned about the card's longevity? For what it's worth, I have tested about 10 of these things over the years, and I have never come across a broken one. They appear to be indestructable. I've also OC'd them until they artifact, and when you stop this excessive OC'ing, they return to normal operation once more.

Question to the group: has anyone come across a defective V3 2000 card? I vaguely remember seeing one with a capacitor knocked off, but I think that was because of poor packaging, and it got smashed during transit.

I have found two malfunctioning Voodoo2 cards and a dead Voodoo4, not counting the ones destroyed by wrong handling. 3dfx offered a lifetime warranty for their products. Funny thing, considering that most of their cards survived the brand itself.

I've come across several malfunctioning V1s and V2s (usually buckled pins on one of the chips), one dead V4, and one malfunctioning V5.

So far all 3DFX cards I've tested worked fine, except for the one V2 which had a minor graphical display error, which didn't bother me much anyhow.

The V3 PCI's get very hot though, I prefer to give them some extra cooling anyway 😉

My Voodoo3 3000 died after a few years of use. It was built into a silent PC, so the air flow was not very good, and I remember burning my fingers on the heatsink several times. The Voodoo 3 heatsinks seem a bit weedy to be operated without fans.

retro games 100 wrote:

Gerwin, are you considering underclocking your V3 2000 card because you are concerned about the card's longevity?

Maybe a little. But the heat from that thing is just not right in principle, I don't want anything that hot in a PC. Also the system it is in can only run DOS games, and these won't need a 143 MHz core + memory speed. I set it to 100 MHz. It is a little cooler now. 😀

Edit: Put it on 125 MHz instead. At 100 MHz I noticed somewhat corrupted output in a DOS game (Battle Isle 2).

Edit: Put it on 114 MHz, at 110 MHz and below I noticed the issue.

I've just dug up 2 V3 2000 cards. They look almost identical, except for one thing. One heatsink is taller than the other. Apart from that difference, the heatsinks look identical. One card weighs 108 grams, while the other card weighs 98 grams. The RAM speed of -6 can be seen on both cards. The taller heatsink model has RAM made by Infineon, and the other card's RAM is made by Hyundai.

elfuego wrote:

Alright, then do what you can to run NFS3 and NFS4 in Glide + stereo on a Voodoo3/4/5 and post results please! 😀

I also reactivated the stereo rig and I managed to get UT'99 running again in glide + stereo with 4.11 driver, but it really looks sad. I also tried Wing Commander demo which also kind of works (sad+bad). What games did you test?

One mode question for the end - did you try to update the WickedGL driver (wrapper) that the eye3D uses manually? Maybe we can force the glide3x to load... Also, did you try to use eye3D with some newer video cards (GF3/4/5/6, or Radeon 9800/x800)?

Testings I've done so far (eye3D PCI + eyeScream 4.12/5.02 + Win98SE):

Voodoo2 + Tomb Raider 4 (Direct3D): stereoscopic mode and resolution override work fine (had to manually enter 1024x672 resolution in registry database to enable override). Game seems stable.

Voodoo2 + GLQuake (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereoscopic mode and (manual) resolution override work fine. Eventual game lockups, process can be killed.

Voodoo2 + Quake III (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereoscopic mode and (manual) resolution override work fine. Eventual game lockups, process can be killed.

Voodoo2 + Unreal/UT (Glide2x): stereoscopic mode works, but the effect hits image quality. Texts are hard to read even with resolution override, and lighting effects are not displayed correctly (halos, coronas and lens flares are 2D effects and do not have depth). Otherwise game is playable.

Voodoo2 + NFS3 demo (Glide2x): stereoscopic mode and resolution override work fine. Had to manually edit registry database to enable glide mode. Stereo looks very nice, it improves image quality IMHO.

Voodoo2 + NFS4 demo (Glide3x): yes, it uses Glide3x instead of Glide2x!!! Game completely ignores glide wrapper, so stereoscopic mode and resolution override are unavailable. Had to manually edit registry database to enable glide mode. Nothing remarkable.

Voodoo3 + Tomb Raider 4 (Direct3D): stereo mode and (needless) resolution override work fine. Game seems stable.

Voodoo3 + GLQuake (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereo mode and (needless) resolution override work fine. Eventual game lockups, cannot kill process.

Voodoo3 + Quake III (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereo mode and (needless) resolution override work fine. Eventual game lockups, cannot kill process.

Voodoo3 + Unreal/UT (Glide2x): untested. Should work like Voodoo2.

Voodoo3 + NFS3 demo (Glide2x): untested. Should work like Voodoo2.

Voodoo3 + NFS4 demo (Glide3x): untested. Should work like Voodoo2.

Voodoo5 + Tomb Raider 4 (Direct3D): stereoscopic mode works very fine, game looks great at high resolutions (no override needed).

Voodoo5 + GLQuake (miniGL/Glide2x): game runs, but nothing else works. You can see both stereo images up and down without being combined. VSA-100 chips get unsynched and heavy interleave artifacts can be seen.

Voodoo5 + GLQuake (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereoscopic mode does not work. WickedGL complains of unsupported stereo mode at loading.

Voodoo5 + Quake III (WickedGL/Glide2x): stereoscopic mode does not work. WickedGL complains of unsupported stereo mode at loading.

Voodoo5 + Unreal/UT (Glide2x): stereoscopic mode works, but the effect hits image quality. Texts are hard to read even at large resolutions, and lighting effects are not displayed correctly (halos, coronas and lens flares are 2D effects and do not have depth). Otherwise game is playable.

Voodoo5 + NFS3 demo (Glide2x): game crashes, either selecting default Glide2x or glide wrapper. 3Dsetup does not recognize V5. It scans PCI devices to find 3dfx cards!!! Had to manually edit registry database to enable glide mode and select Voodoo2/Voodoo3, but didn't work.

Voodoo5 + NFS4 demo (Glide3x): game runs fine, but uses Glide3x instead of Glide2x, so there's no stereo support at all. Had to manually edit registry database to enable glide mode and select Voodoo2/Voodoo3.

GeForce256 + Tomb Raider 4 (Direct3D): stereoscopic mode works very fine, game looks great at high resolutions (no override needed).

GeForce256 + GLQuake (OpenGL): eyeScream does not support OpenGL.

GeForce256 + Quake III (OpenGL): eyeScream does not support OpenGL.

Still not tried newer, unsupported cards.

I don't understand your question about updating the WickedGL driver/wrapper. One thing is WickedGL, and another one is the Wicked3D eyeScream wrapper. I need to reinstall WickedGL each time I want to use another 3dfx card, because its copy protection fails (I'm using the leaked 3.02 commercial release). However, Wicked3D eyeScream detects hardware changes and doesn't complain. There's no way I know of to update the stereoscopic wrapper, and no easy* way either to force it to load and use a Glide3x library. If it was possible, we could add stereoscopic support to every OpenGL game that is compatible with either 3dfx ICD or MesaFX. But unfortunately we cannot easily* do that, and WickedGL won't work with V5, so it will be limited to miniGL compatible games (Quake, Hexen II, Quake II, Heretic, Sin, Half-Life and not many more).

* I said it's no easy because actually there's a way to do that: to program and compile a MesaFX version that uses Glide2x as rasterization library.

batracio wrote:

Voodoo3 + NFS3 demo (Glide2x): untested. Should work like Voodoo2.

Voodoo3 + NFS4 demo (Glide3x): untested. Should work like Voodoo2.

Let me save you the trouble - it works not like V2, but exactly like V5 - better said, it doesnt work. Stereo works only in D3D mode and if you manually force the glide (like I also did) then the stereo does not work.

So, we can safely summarize the whole thing as: V2+stereo works almost always. V3/V5 and other video cards are a matter of luck. The biggest drawback of Wicked3D wrapper is that FSAA of V5 is out of the question, which definitely makes the V2 better choice 🙁

Now I wonder about that iZ3D driver and if its possible to make metabyte glasses work under windows XP with it...

elfuego wrote:

Let me save you the trouble - it works not like V2, but exactly like V5 - better said, it doesnt work. Stereo works only in D3D mode and if you manually force the glide (like I also did) then the stereo does not work.

That's weird, I didn't bother to test Voodoo3 in Glide because I think it uses the same Wicked3D/WickedGL wrappers as Voodoo2. Let me check it again.

elfuego wrote:

So, we can safely summarize the whole thing as: V2+stereo works almost always. V3/V5 and other video cards are a matter of luck. The biggest drawback of Wicked3D wrapper is that FSAA of V5 is out of the question, which definitely makes the V2 better choice 🙁

I always prefer Voodoo2 over anything else for compatibility reasons. But I must admit that playing Unreal with Voodoo5's Glide is jaw-dropping even today; I had played it before with Voodoo1 (too slow) and Voodoo2 (fast enough) only, I wish I had had a Voodoo5 when I first played the game.

elfuego wrote:

Now I wonder about that iZ3D driver and if its possible to make metabyte glasses work under windows XP with it...

From what I've read, iZ3D supports shutter glasses, but activating the stereo mode in eye3D PCI without eyeScream may be troublesome. I'll try it.

batracio wrote:

I always prefer Voodoo2 over anything else for compatibility reasons. But I must admit that playing Unreal with Voodoo5's Glide is jaw-dropping even today; I had played it before with Voodoo1 (too slow) and Voodoo2 (fast enough) only, I wish I had had a Voodoo5 when I first played the game.

I also tried playing UT with V2 SLI and it works ok, but color dithering is plainly seen. There is definitely a major difference in glide quality with V5 and V2. BTW, even though I love V2 and have a bunch of them, I still prefer playing all games that can be played on V5 with V5, no matter how old they may be. The older the better even - the really old games, like Blade of Darkness or NFS3/4 you can play with FSAA 4x and LOD-2 which looks just awesome 😀

Oh and, Blade of Darkness works with eye3D + glide + V5 nicely (no FSAA though).

...and for the record - I just noticed that there are still quite a few UT99 servers running 😀 Anyone up for a deathmatch?

VSA100 has more complex RAMDAC filters to further improve 16bit color. That's most likely what you're seeing compared to V2.

4x ssaa also has an inherent color depth enhancing effect.

I found a tricky method to enable stereo in NFS3 and Voodoo3!!! I was trying to follow the instructions to apply the Voodoo3 patch, but that's a dead end because the patched renderer uses Glide3x. NFS3 can do Glide in Voodoo3 without the patch!!! Now I'll try Voodoo5.

EDIT: got stereo running in NFS4 and Voodoo3!!! This is very promising.

batracio wrote:

I found a tricky method to enable stereo in NFS3 and Voodoo3!!! I was trying to follow the instructions to apply the Voodoo3 patch, but that's a dead end because the patched renderer uses Glide3x. NFS3 can do Glide in Voodoo3 without the patch!!! Now I'll try Voodoo5.

EDIT: got stereo running in NFS4 and Voodoo3!!! This is very promising.

Share the knowledge man! What did you do? What drivers, what setting?