You should put in a new RTC before continuing any testing.

I would need somebody to desolder it, or i should try to hax it.
My soldering iron is so shit i want to leave it in the woods and never come back.

Obtain an appropriate soldering iron, use the sharpest tip you can find, probably a Weller ETS tip. Use approx 440 C temperature to your iron for approx 3-6 seconds on the solder pad, then quickly use a solder sucker to suck out the solder. It may take 2 or 3 times per solder pad. Use care to ensure you do not leave the tip on for too long at too high of temperature, or you could start to break down the PCB. Lightly wiggle the DIP pin after several attemps to suck out all the solder, but do not use much more force than you would to dislodge food from your teeth while flossing. If you use too much force, you could break the through hole copper or trackes which attach to it, either on the surface, or a middle layer trace.

Good luck!

Word of advice, when you put a RTC back in, use a socket instead of soldering it directly.

[shameless plug]Or if you frankenstein a new battery in the RTC chip you can keep using that for a while until I start selling my RTC replacement modules. 😉 [/shameless plug]

sunaiac wrote:

Stojke wrote:

Using SuperScape (3DBench2) all processors score 74.6FPS when running at 160MHz with S3 DX 2MB.

This is low, what is their score at 133 ?

Don't forget about the law of diminishing returns. Just because 160mhz is 20% faster than 133mhz, doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to get a 20% performance boost. The actual performance increase could be far less.

True. Especially if running at a higher bus frequency means you need to run your memory and / or cache with more loosely timings.

feipoa wrote:

Obtain an appropriate soldering iron, use the sharpest tip you can find, probably a Weller ETS tip. Use approx 440 C temperature to your iron for approx 3-6 seconds on the solder pad, then quickly use a solder sucker to suck out the solder. It may take 2 or 3 times per solder pad. Use care to ensure you do not leave the tip on for too long at too high of temperature, or you could start to break down the PCB. Lightly wiggle the DIP pin after several attemps to suck out all the solder, but do not use much more force than you would to dislodge food from your teeth while flossing. If you use too much force, you could break the through hole copper or trackes which attach to it, either on the surface, or a middle layer trace.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info on the temperature and timing part. I am already familiar with this since i finished electronics middle school here in Serbia 😀
And i have lots of experience with it so thats not the problem.
The problem is that i dont have the money to buy a decent normal soldering workstation. I bought some Chinese soldering station for 20$ with temperature regulation, but now all it does is destroy the tips, they simply turn pitch black after some time. I think its because the tips are ULTRA bad, but i dont know.
I have been saving for some tools, but nothing in the close future.

Never keep the tips for longer time idle at over 400oC
always put them away with solder on the tip, and clean regurly with water and sponge, and use only solder with lead.
non lead solder will eat away the solder tip, and oxidize when you blink your eye's

But isn't lead solder now banned in EU countries?

At work we use Pb free, but sometimes i repair older parts that were done with lead solder also with lead solder.
Soldering with Pb is heavenly, at home i only do Pb solder, because i do not want to buy new tips all over.
Once you move over from Pb to tin/silver shit you kill your tips, or put a time restriction on them.
The tips would then look ok after a whila also after cleaning, but turn it on and instant oxidation and tip contact will be bad and you end up killing your PCB's trying to solder them also because that solder needs to get more heat also, not to mention if it cools down too fast you end up solder with micro cracks inside, and could cause a flaky connection.
Pb is still for sale, we even have it on our roofs to fix corners of the drain system, this will end up getting in rain water and such, they do not care about that also.
A good hand wash does the job after soldering with it and avoid the fumes as much as you can, or you could turn over a little mad if you use it too much, but heh.
btw lead free solder is such chemical stuff i doubt it is even better for us.

Since the board is already done with Pb solder, to remove the Dallas RTC, you could try to remove as much solder as you can with the suck, and gently push the empty hole with the leg still in it with the solder iron to make it come loose from the pcb hole, pin by pin until the whole is loose eventually.
It is very time consuming, i would personally invest in a temperature regulated hot air desolder gun, you can buy some for cheap and are worth it.
Whatever you will never have to do if it is still stuck on is to pry or pull it out, you will damage / pull out your board solder holes, and traces end up in the middle layers it is very hard to fix.

So thats whats killing my tips!
I knew that tin i bought was crap.

I invested in a solder sucker station. While I don't desolder much, when I do, it's a painless process and the final results is worth it.

what is written on the solder formula? you can use it, but clean good, and put away tinned. also you could use tip activator to bring back some of the health to the tips so you can reuse them for some while, but extended time is very limited.
When you use solder with Pb they may end up black, but resolder them with that solder and clean with sponge and water and it is again all shiny and ready for some action.
I never bought new tips for home use in about 20 years or so, still have my 3 original ones 😉

If you have a desolder station you need also good tips because they also oxidize and make bad contact after a while, and they are too expensive to me, hot air is cheap 😉
Also with desolder station you risk damaging the pcb traces while moving the tip while you make contact with the solder and the pcb. not to mention you can cause a pcb bubble. (the heat on to a tiny point on the PCB makes it expand too fast and since there is moist inside the pcb the expansion is too fast and could cause white dots on the pcb and could cause layer break due to forcing and seperating the pcb's inner layers from each other) -> bad.
This can be minimized with heating up the board around that place with hot air around 60+oC or removing the desolder tip after some time and continue after several seconds allowing the board to heat up around gently.
With hot air all, you have to do is wear gloves for the heat holding the board (not try to bend the board due to the heat), and adjust the temperature not too hot but able to make the tin melt and gently and KEEPING moving the hot air around until the board heats up and the component comes out.
This is accelerated when you already remove some of the holes solder but ic is still stuck to the holes edge's, then hot air use makes it come out very very fast. (only the ic if plastic could burn a bit to remove it in such way due to the hot air moving through the almost empty holes burning the ic a bit)

sliderider wrote:

Don't forget about the law of diminishing returns. Just because 160mhz is 20% faster than 133mhz, doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to get a 20% performance boost. The actual performance increase could be far less.

I was comparing to my own scores.
But default timings explain it all.

I have the same goal here, and have a round 35 5x86 cpu's now to test some day.
Maybe the 16BGC's are the best ones to try, and some 4-5v. also a tec might be a good try, the internal heat restricts it so much at use that under ambient temp cpu core could be a good way to achieve it without finding a "the one" cpu. although maybe 180mhz 4x60mhz is a first goal, but how to test a board if it is able to do 60mhz properly.
It is sad am5x86 cannot do 2x multi.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

But isn't lead solder now banned in EU countries?

Banning lead solder was a stupid idea. That tin/silver crap does not have enough flexibility to withstand shock and vibration. I can still remember the polycarbonate iBook G3 and G4 machines that had an atrocious reliability record because the solder would crack at the slightest bump causing components to pull away from the motherboard.

Silver, btw, used to be used to make gold coins intended for circulation harder so they would stand up to wear better. If silver makes gold harder, it is also going to make your solder harder and more rigid. Lead remains soft and flexible.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

True. Especially if running at a higher bus frequency means you need to run your memory and / or cache with more loosely timings.

and some motherboards don't like the higher bus anyway. I never had stability with 150mhz, but 160mhz works dandy with only the soft reset freeze being a problem (caused by tight memory timings) and is definitely somewhat faster than 133mhz.

Mau1wurf1977, which desolder station do you have?
JaNoZ, which hot air rework station do you recommend?

JanoZ, why do you want the AM5x86 to run at 2x? I do not see much value in running such a chip at even 2x66 when 4x40 has better performance. At 160 MHz using a 27 MHz PCI bus, the 160 scores 17.3 fps in Quake 1, while the 2x66 receives 15.1 fps with a 30 MHz PCI bus. The Am5x86-16KB-WB does exist. This is the one from my collection,

Look at that mid-2002 datecode. I think the B1's were the last editions.

I think the most optimal Am5x86 setup is to run the chip at 60x3. Of about a dozen chips I have, I could not obtain a stable chip at this speed at 4V or less. I'm sure some do exist though. I know some people who have been able to run the Am5x86 at 3x50 with the L2 on the fastest 2-1-1-1 timings without problems provided they restricted the L2 cache to 256 KB of double-banked. You should use a board with a 2/3 PCI multiplier in this case, otherwise it seems silly to run a 50 MHz bus on a PCI-based board. 4x40 is probably the best compromise for the Am5x86. I have at least one board which will run 1024K L2 WB cache on the fastest L2 settings, 128 MB RAM, and a 40 MHz PCI bus.

To determine if a board will do 60 MHz "properly" depends on many factors. First is the PCI bus, if it can be set to 1/2 and 2/3 of your FSB. At 60 MHz, the slowest L2 cache timings should be fine, however it will yield slower L2 throughput compared to the same chip at 40 MHz and the fastest timings. On the up-side (and if I remember correctly), I beleive the RAM speed is slightly faster. Usually a single stick of 64 MB RAM and double-banked 256 KB cache should be best for testing purposes.

I would not know what air station to recommend, we use the leister ch-6056 at work, and i got 2 for free from work cause they were worn out and they were throwing them out (had to replace one coal brush each for the motor).
So in my eyes cause i already have experience these work quite well, are not too big and have enough power for small work like up to larger QFP's, BGA's removal or IDE connectors etc.
a RAM slot removal should use a bigger one, because the leister then has too minimal air surface that it throw hot air at, instead the leister we use a cheapo Steinel hot air tool from conrad http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/825157/St … ef=searchDetail
Personally since i have two Leisters (can you tell we are next to germany with Leister and steinel 😉 then i use Leister Akimbo 😜

But actually anything would work (we use them at around 500oC setting) :
http://mobile-668.en.made-in-china.com/produc … BEST-852D-.html
Try to get one 2nd hand for cheap, a paint stripper may do the trick but it cannot reach high enough temps for the non lead solder type of newer boards, but with 486 this was not the age of lead free solder so youre ok.

So regarding oc i should be looking for am dx2-66's BGC's?, i thought amd was speed binning and the dx is actually a derated 5x86 133?? could that one never reach anything higher than lets say 133mhz?
My am dx4 100's don't do much more than they were sold for as rated cpu so i do not waste my money on them.
As for the am5x86, i would like a multi 2 for 2x66 or 2x83 if that would at all be possible stable at an later revision UMC chipset.
I have several UMC based boards including my lovely pcchips M915 that runs great at 3x50 with all timings tight and i would love to give them a try to see if 60 or 66mhz would run also ok on them.
But i am having trouble to find a cpu that is capable of posting on 3x60 at all or a dx4 that could do 2x60, no posting, so i figure i do not have any of my umc boards that could do 60mhz even a slight post? ;-(
I do not know if it is the cpu's that are vomiting on 60mhz bus or my pci or my chipset that is crashing at 60mhz, or maybe my clock is disturbed.
Is there any way i could make the 60mhz signals from my clock generator stronger or more reliable? maybe that would fix the chipset function at 60mhz.

btw i have a few cyrix 100GP's around, can they do 2x66??

Btw does anyone know if a GF4 MX440SE PCI is able to run on any 486 pci board?, preferably UMC8881? any one with experience what pci cards run and don't run 486 boards?
I saw this card at ebay : http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAD-DOG-Geforce4-MX44 … cvip=true&rt=nc
And i fell in love with it, if it weren't in the usa and cause that amount of shipping fee, i would certainly have bid on it, to feed my 486, or at least try it out.

I have heard(but not confirmed) that Newer NVidia cards require Pentium or PMMX instructions
Getting the card to run in the slot and getting drivers that work are two different things.