VOGONS


Reply 60 of 408, by Deksor

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Well, there are less search options than the fields that can be filled in there. You can't search by max memory, exact CPU support, or stuff like that. But on the other hand having this data stored is handy for you to know if your board actually supports it or not.
I just ask myself three questions
- does the data matter ?
- is it hard to "extract" ?
- can I identify a motherboard with it ?

If it truly matters, I'd add it, even if it's hard to find (except if that's totally impossible to find). If it doesn't matter, but it's easy to add, I may still add it. But if it doesn't matter and it's hard to add, I won't bother with it ^^
And if it can be used to identify a motherboardn then I'll add it to the search function. If it doesn't, it'll simply be displayed on the motherboard page if the field is filled.
Example : serial ports flavours. I won't do any search function for them, and it's a little hard to figure out as you need either a manual documenting the pinout or someone to test the pinout (so basically : human intervention), but it's a really good information to know as it can save you so much time instead of thinking your serial port or your mouse is dead, getting through tons of serial port brackets, until you find the one that works with your motherboard ... (true story).

I think my search function is complete as it is right now (except for POST string search), so I don't think I'll have to modify it anytime soon.

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Reply 61 of 408, by evasive

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The POST string search, well there's this:
https://www.wimsbios.com/motherboardid.jsp
You might get away with having the search taking the manufacturer ID and giving you a list from there both for Award and AMI, Phoenix not so much.

Reply 62 of 408, by GigAHerZ

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Would you mind sharing your database schema, how you have structured all the data from TH99 archive?
I've also thought about modernizing this TH99 dataset, with main focus on the structure of the data so easy searching and everything else would be easy to implement later on.
Maybe i can then chip in with something. 😀

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - And i intend to get every last bit out of it even after loading every damn driver!

Reply 64 of 408, by GigAHerZ

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Thank you Deksor! Pretty much what i expected. Even more extreme on some cases. (For example the max_ram table, that just holds the integer)

They reason i wanted to see that was because i was thinking about this and i had an idea, that for example motherboard's own properties could be just a key-value pairs of data, to not have any restrictions on schema level and have ability to add some very specific properties. At the same time, on UI level, you can select out a distinct set of keys and distinct set of values and use those sets to make sure same things are named the same way.
In an essence, i think it's called sometimes as a "fluent schema".

Of course, not all properties may be possible, or even reasonable to do that way, but on some other cases, maybe that idea sparks something in your mind. 😀

But having such a normalized table and converting all that html into this database... man, i bow at you. That's quite a big work no matter what!

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - And i intend to get every last bit out of it even after loading every damn driver!

Reply 65 of 408, by Predator99

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evasive wrote on 2020-05-26, 05:31:

The POST string search, well there's this:
https://www.wimsbios.com/motherboardid.jsp
You might get away with having the search taking the manufacturer ID and giving you a list from there both for Award and AMI, Phoenix not so much.

Thats interesting. I think its quite easy to extract the POST-strings from a ROM- image (if the ROM is not compressed). Just made some quick test with "grep" on the ones on my drive and got some good results. Dont think there is much use in writing a program for that. With such search your already get maybe 80% of the strings and for the remaining ones you need to take a look into the dump. Afterwards you can improve the search to find the missed ones next time...

AMI:
grep -H "40-" *BIN
486-486-A4865-A4866.BIN:40-0131-425004-00101111-070791-OPWB493
486-920087335.BIN:40-0101-DK1343-00101111-060691-OPWBSX
486-ASUS ISA-486SV2.BIN:40-110A-001292-00101111-111192-I486SI
486-Contaq.BIN:40-0700-D01508-00101111-070791-CTQ 486
486-Genoa VLB.BIN:40-0100-006156-00101111-080893-SIS461
486-Peacock PCK486DX.BIN:40-0100-806294-00101111-060692-SYMP
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:40-0500-D01131-00101111-070791-UMCWB
486-UNICHIP 486 WB 4407.BIN:40-0200-001107-00101111-111192-U4800VLX

grep -H "41-" *BIN
486-G486IP IMS.BIN:41-0000-ZZ1124-00101111-060692-IMS8849

grep -H "X0-" *BIN
486-486 CAM.BIN:X0-0101-001105-00101111-060692-495SX_A

grep -H "30-" *BIN
486-FX3000.BIN:30-0500-D01131-00101111-070791-UMCWB

Award:
grep -H "\-00" *BIN
486-486 CAM.BIN:X0-0101-001105-00101111-060692-495SX_A
486-486 CAM.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-486 CAM.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-1
486-486-A4865-A4866.BIN:40-0131-425004-00101111-070791-OPWB493
486-486-A4865-A4866.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-486-A4865-A4866.BIN:23H-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2
486-486-GIO-VT2.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒▒d So▒are Inc. Awar08/30/94-VT82C486A-214L2000-00
486-486SLE M106-4SLE4Z1.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒▒d So▒are Inc. Awar!11/09/94-SIS-85C471E-2C4I9C31-00
486-920087335.BIN:40-0101-DK1343-00101111-060691-OPWBSX
486-920087335.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-920087335.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-7
486-ASUS ISA-486SV2.BIN:40-110A-001292-00101111-111192-I486SI
486-ASUS ISA-486SV2.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-ASUS ISA-486SV2.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-3
486-Chaintech 486 SLE.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒▒d So▒are Inc. Awar!11/09/94-SIS-85C471E-2C4I9C31-00
486-Contaq.BIN:40-0700-D01508-00101111-070791-CTQ 486
486-Contaq.BIN:34L-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-Contaq.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-4
486-FX3000.BIN:30-0500-D01131-00101111-070791-UMCWB
486-FX3000.BIN:30H-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-FX3000.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2
486-G486IP IMS.BIN:41-0000-ZZ1124-00101111-060692-IMS8849
486-G486IP IMS.BIN:24H-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-G486IP IMS.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2
486-GA-486SVF.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A逾d So▒are Inc. Awar 04/27/94-SIS-85C471-2C4I8G01-00
486-Genoa VLB.BIN:40-0100-006156-00101111-080893-SIS461
486-Genoa VLB.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-Genoa VLB.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-9
486-MB-4D33.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒H▒d So▒are Inc. Awar03/09/94-UMC-491-2C4X2A30-00
486-PCChips.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒ ▒d So▒are Inc. Awar07/13/94--2C4X6H01-00
486-Peacock PCK486DX.BIN:40-0100-806294-00101111-060692-SYMP
486-Peacock PCK486DX.BIN:23H-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-000
486-Peacock PCK486DX.BIN:000-0-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2
486-SiS 486SL.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒▒d So▒are Inc. Awar 02/07/94-SIS-85C471-2C4I8C30-00
486-SiS Green.BIN:e Inc. Award Software Inc. Award Software Inc. A▒@▒d So▒are Inc. Awar 04/28/94-SIS-85C471-2C4I8S21-00
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:40-0500-D01131-00101111-070791-UMCWB
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:30H-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-29H
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2
486-UNICHIP 486 WB 4407.BIN:40-0200-001107-00101111-111192-U4800VLX
486-UNICHIP 486 WB 4407.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-31L
486-UNICHIP 486 WB 4407.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-4

Reply 67 of 408, by Predator99

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Yes, these are different matches in the same file, e.g.

486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:40-0500-D01131-00101111-070791-UMCWB
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:30H-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-29H
486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN:000-1-0000-00-00-0000-00-00-00-2

for the file "486-UM486-UM486sx.BIN" - only the 1st match is the valid string.

Reply 68 of 408, by Deksor

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Well you're right ... I remember trying that though, I don't get why it didn't work 🙁

Oh well

Here's the linux command I used to list every POST strings :
Old AMI :

cat -v *.bin | egrep -o "[[:alnum:]]{4}-[[:alnum:]]{4}-[0-9]{6}-"

New AMI :

cat -v *.bin | egrep -o "([0-9]{2}-.{4}-[[:alnum:]]{6}-[0-1]{8}-[0-9]{6}-.{20})"

Award :

cat -v *.bin | egrep -o "[0-9]{2}/[0-9]{2}/[0-9]{2}-.*-[0-9]{2}"

The award one is not so great by comparison, but Award POST string seem to change more than their AMI counterpart.

Last edited by Deksor on 2020-05-28, 13:53. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 69 of 408, by Predator99

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Thats looking even better 😉
I cannot test at the moment because I dont have a full Linux, tested my proposal on my QNAP which does not seem to support all grep/egrep options... (invalid option -- o)

Reply 70 of 408, by evasive

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Don't worry too much about the Award bioses. I have got something I can run in a for/next loop:

2A990513.BIN: 05/13/1999-691-596-W877-2A6LFPAAC-00 128K 05/13/1999 For Apollo Pro AGP/PCIset 3A000831.BIN: 08/31/2000 […]
Show full quote

2A990513.BIN: 05/13/1999-691-596-W877-2A6LFPAAC-00
128K 05/13/1999 For Apollo Pro AGP/PCIset
3A000831.BIN: 08/31/2000-693-596-W977-2A6LFPABC-00
256K ACPI 08/31/2000 For Apollo Pro AGP/PCIset
3ETM1709.BIN: 07/09/2001-i815-W83627-6A69RPAMC-00
512K ACPI 07/09/2001 2theMax 3ETM Mainboard www.2themax.com
3F001124.BIN: 11/24/2000-SiS-630-FV6IRC0CC-00
256K ACPI 11/24/2000
3G990825.BIN: 08/25/1999-MVP3-596-W877-2A5LEPADC-00
128K 08/25/1999 For Apollo MVP3 AGP/PCIset
3M000830.BIN: 08/30/2000-693-686A-2A6LGPAAC-00
256K ACPI 08/30/2000 For Apollo Pro-Plus/133 AGP/PCIset
3PTA1830.BIN: 08/30/2001-i815-W83627-6A69RPAOC-00
256K ACPI 08/30/2001 For 2theMax 3PTA Mainboard www.2themax.com
3S251305.BIN: 03/05/2001-i815-W83627-6A69RPAGC-00
512K ACPI 03/05/2001 2theMax 3S2A5 i815E Mainboard www.2themax.com
3S2A0B10.BIN: 11/10/2000-i815-W83627-6A69RPACC-00
512K ACPI 11/10/2000 For i815E Chipset
3SP31731.BIN: 07/31/2001-i815-W83627-6A69RPAIC-00
256K ACPI 07/31/2001 For i815EP Chipset

The grep trick on the AMI bioses is neat, however you just get the string, not the OEM model info. I'll have to find out what compression algorithm AMI is using (Award is lzh) so we can get the whole picture from them too.

Reply 71 of 408, by Deksor

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Great ! Meanwhile I'm improving the site, with the help of my two new partners, and I'm starting to check what to do with my elhvb backup (I started by removing empty directories, now I'll have to merge every manufacturers/bioses and finally unzip every archive to remove duplicates and have identifiable bioses.

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Reply 72 of 408, by Predator99

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evasive wrote on 2020-05-28, 08:27:

The grep trick on the AMI bioses is neat, however you just get the string, not the OEM model info. I'll have to find out what compression algorithm AMI is using (Award is lzh) so we can get the whole picture from them too.

Can you post an example of a compressed AMI BIOS? I can also take a look at it. Did they already use compression with 486-BIOS?

Reply 73 of 408, by evasive

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This one. If you search for 1111 in the file it will not show you anything, if you export it from amibcp or use something like amideco from Veith Kannegieser one of the parts will contain the ID string.
61-0507-001117-00111111-071595-I440FX

the more interesting part is the TG_001_05_CHIPSET you'll find in the expanded part. I don't think it would show in the compressed version of a 94/95 AMI winbios, have to check a few of those.

Reply 74 of 408, by evasive

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Here's an AMI Winbios. See if you can get this string from the .rom file.

40-P3-D-001256-00101111-072594-UMC498

Reply 75 of 408, by Deksor

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I can't extract any of these POST strings ... that's what I feared actually.

Thanks a lot for your work, it'll be very useful and it'll make our site a hell of a lot more interesting if we manage to include so many BIOSes 😁

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Reply 76 of 408, by appiah4

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Would a motherboard search engine be possible? i.e. search by socket, chipset, number of ISA/PCI/SIMM/DIMM/Cache etc. slots?

Reply 77 of 408, by Predator99

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evasive wrote on 2020-05-28, 12:37:

Here's an AMI Winbios. See if you can get this string from the .rom file.

40-P3-D-001256-00101111-072594-UMC498

I think this should do the job?
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+package/amideco
Dont have a Linux to try at the moment however...

Also here interesting:
https://sites.google.com/site/pinczakko/pincz … e-engineering-1
"The decompression engine used in AMIBIOS8 is LHA decompressor. It's similar to the one used in AR archiver in the DOS era and the one used in AWARD BIOS. However, the header of the compressed code has been modified. Thus the code that handles the header of the compressed components is different from the ordinary LHA/LZH code. The decompression engine code is pretty long, as shown below."

Reply 78 of 408, by evasive

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-28, 13:00:

Would a motherboard search engine be possible? i.e. search by socket, chipset, number of ISA/PCI/SIMM/DIMM/Cache etc. slots?

motherboards.org at the time had something called mobot. From what I remember, the more things we put in there, the less complete the entries became. So yeah, socket, chipset, memory config and slot number/config, maybe a post string but that's about it. As for the post string, some makers are using a non-standard one so that field needs to be multiple-entry and free-form.

Last edited by evasive on 2020-05-28, 13:41. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 79 of 408, by Deksor

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@appiah4 that's what I already have made 😁
Though some parameters are different (no socket but "CPU platform" instead and no cache search)

@Predator99
I'm going to try that !

@evasive, well for now the POST string field is a text field where you can write whatever you want.
I planned to do the search function as simple as "SELECT * FROM xxx WHERE post_string LIKE '%SearchedText%';"
Unless you think there's a much better way to do this ?

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