The 82C929A is not SoundBlaster 16-compatible, to my knowledge. Once I get a new quad op-amp to replace the damaged one on the sound card, I'll let you know.

HA you where onto something!

OPL3 music is indeed swapped compared to AWE synth and General MIDI (SC-55). How about that... (I tested OPL3 and AWE synth on the AWE64 and the SC-55 was also connected to this card).

The question now is which one is the intended version? More people had OPL3 so is this the "correct" version? I guess for music it doesn't really matter that much anyway....

Still it never stops to amaze me to run into little bugs such as this one 🤣

The 82C929A is Sound Blaster Pro compatible, not SB16.

unmei220 wrote:

The 82C929A is Sound Blaster Pro compatible, not SB16.

Coolies! Do you get MONO digital effects in Descent as well?

It's shareware so you can just download it for free / legal if you want to test it.

I already have it on my DOS computer. And yes, I only get Mono sound effects out of the 82C929A in Descent. To me, this makes no sense because every other game I've used with that sound card(Collector's CD-ROM edition of Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars TIE Fighter, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom) all have Stereo sound and most of those have SoundBlaster Pro support. I really don't get it. Flawed SoundBlaster Pro support, maybe? Because on my SoundBlaster Vibra16, SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects and SoundBlaster AWE64, there is no Stereo output from any SoundBlaster Pro digital sound.

Either way, I feel like it might be time to ditch the OPTi 82C929A and either put in my SoundBlaster Vibra16 in its place or keep my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 in there(it has inferior digital sound, but the SoundBlaster Vibra16 will not output any Stereo sound in SoundBlaster Pro mode, if that makes any sense).

Wonder if the OPTi 82C930 is any different from the 82C929A aside from the lack of an external audio codec(it's integrated within the 82C930, unlike on the 82C929A.

Ace wrote:

but the SoundBlaster Vibra16 will not output any Stereo sound in SoundBlaster Pro mode, if that makes any sense).

Yup that's the correct behavior. The Sb16s digital part is not Stereo compatible with the SB Pro. Also applies to AWE32 and AWE64.

On such cards when selecting SB Pro you will MONO only. However this isn't a big deal as games that have Stereo digital effects also support the SB16/AWE32/AWE64. So just select that card and you have correct Stereo sound effects!

Regarding that OPTI only playing Mono in this particular game, well as I said before, nothing is 100% compatible. It's just a matter of testing enough games and you will sooner or later run into something that doesn't work as it should...

Know of any games that support only the SoundBlaster Pro?

Ace wrote:

Know of any games that support only the SoundBlaster Pro?

I looked long and hard and asked this question on many forums.

Old games had only Mono speech / sound effects to begin with (e.g. Wing Commander 2) and games that did have stereo sound effects had support for the SB16 anyway.

Although it's an argument that is often used against using / getting a SB16 there are no games that are affected by this issue. At least I haven't found one and nobody was able to provide with an example.

Just to make it clear, only the digital part is affected. Stereo FM is fully compatible with Soundblaster Pro!

Duh, I know the FM Synthesis is not affected! I experienced it first-hand with my AWE64.

So then, out goes the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 and in goes my SoundBlaster Vibra16 until I find something that makes me want to go back to the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0.

Ace wrote:

Duh, I know the FM Synthesis is not affected! I experienced it first-hand with my AWE64.

I know it's just that we aren't the only ones reading this forum and it's a very common misconception 🤣

I'm also looking for a SB16 with OPL hardware, but the low quality eBay images really don't help 😢

EDIT: Well I did a bit more research into SB16s and it seems the Soundblaster 16 Vibra16S (Chip CT2504) was one of the last cards which still came with the Yamaha YMF262-M chip. Well I ordered 2 so looking forward to some more testing 🤣

Did you try putting the 929A into Windows Sound System mode and test Descent using that setting ? Maybe it does work in Stereo using that.

You know what? I completely forgot the 82C929A is Windows Sound System-compatible. Right now, I'm not gonna test it because I'm in need of a new quad op-amp because I lost all FM Synthesis on the right audio channel. I just want to see if my SoundBlaster Vibra16 will work correctly with all my DOS games(I'm only questioning whether it outputs Stereo sound in Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. I know it will output Stereo sound in all my other games with Stereo).

Wolfenstein plays with the mixer settings to get Stereo. So this will also work on a SB16.

Doom supports AWE and GUS and GM so pretty sure it supports the SB16. Though I wasn't aware that the game is Stereo 🤣

Let me know what you find!

Just tried the Vibra16 with Doom, and the sound effects are in Stereo. This is enough for me to ditch the OPTi 82C929A; I'm going to stick with my Vibra16/Soundscape combo I currently have. Although, I do need to change the MIDI port address from 330 to something else because the MIDI on my Soundscape is messing up pretty badly.

However, I do notice a rather obnoxious ringing noise whenever no sound is played on my Vibra16. Is this due to the poor signal-to-noise ratio of the SoundBlaster 16 line? If it works any better, I'll grab one of those SoundBlaster 16s with the CT1747. That chip appears to house Yamaha's YMF262 with improved clarity.

By the way:

The question now is which one is the intended version?

Judging by my Soundscape, the Stereo is wrong for FM Synthesis. In Doom, At Doom's Gate(E1M1's tune) is supposed to output the guitar riff from the right, which is how it's output from the Soundscape. Therefore, both the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 and my SoundBlaster Vibra16 have reversed Stereo on their YMF262s. Even my 82C929A has correct Stereo on the YMF262.

Also: it would appear as though the "stuck PCM" glitch I mentioned only occurs on SoundBlasters with DSP version 4.16. So while Creative fixed the stuck MIDI notes in DSP version 4.16, they induced another bug where in certain games, the PCM suddenly stops playing and never works again until you pause and unpause the game. I have yet to experience the stuck PCM bug on my Vibra16, which runs on DSP 4.13. However, on my SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects and SoundBlaster AWE64 Value, I've experienced the glitch.

Can you take a picture of the Vibra you are using?

Why are we using Doom now? AFAIK the FM music in Doom is mono only?

I'm only using it as a reference for General MIDI. Since I know what the Stereo sounds like in Doom's General MIDI music, it was with that game I was able to tell the Stereo is correct on my Soundscape's General MIDI and 82C929A's FM Synthesis, but reversed on my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 and SoundBlaster Vibra16's FM Synthesis.

Right now, I've got an Xbox 360 DVD drive to mod, so once I'm done with that, I'll take a picture of my SoundBlaster Vibra16.

But it could be just a Descent game specific issue? So far I only know of a single game where the Stereo configuration for FM music differs with MIDI music.

Surely there are games where the Stereo configuration between FM and MIDI does line up...

If OPTI and Soundscape chose a Stereo configuration that differs from the reference implementation of Creative, than it comes down to which games you test.

All we can say at this stage is that with Descent at least, the Stereo configuration for FM music differs with MIDI music on Creative hardware, but does not on OPTI and Soundscape.

I just have to find another game where the opposite is true and we are back to square one...

I'll try some other games...

Yup first game I tried and here FM and MIDI have the same Stereo configuration: I tested Warcraft2 SETUP.EXE

Right at the start of the "Test" song you can hear a melody on the right (the other instruments are on both channels). That melody comes out through R on FM and MIDI.

So for this game the OPTI and Soundscape cards would be the ones with the reversed behavior...

So this whole saying of "Stereo is correct" goes out the window because it boils down to:

a. What hardware the game designers used
b. If they where thorough enough to check the Stereo in their music

My ESS AudioDrive for example has the exact same Stereo configuration as my SB Pro 2.0. Whereas your OPTI and Soundscape have a different one.

So basically it's a big mess 🤣

I just stick with MIDI for games that support it. Are there even games that have Stereo FM, but no MIDI? Surely there can't be many...

Edit: Oops. Not sure what happened to my post here. 😦 Basically, I got this sound card, as seen below.

[/quote]

I recorded 4 minutes of X-Wing. Unfortunately, Audacity's recording level was perhaps a tiny bit too high, and in places there's a bit of clipping - if you look at this .MP3 file in Audacity, the "squiggly data" hits the "ceiling" a few times.

For the Opti card, I used the mixer setting defaults. I clicked on the Default button inside the Opti Volume utility. I attached an audio cable from the Speaker out port, and that went in to my Windows XP recording machine. I set Audacity recording level to 1, which is the max. Perhaps I should have used 0.8 or 0.9 instead?

http://www.mediafire.com/?b28b159ufq656t4

Another YMF262 clone that sounds just like true OPL3. Awesome. Although I am still curious to hear what this thing would sound like if you would set the mixer settings to the levels I use on my 82C929A: max out everything except for FM Synthesis, which is set to 85% volume. I'd like to hear that compared to my 82C929A with a real Yamaha YMF262 at the same volume settings.

And by the way, that OPL4 is just OPL3 with a wavetable tacked onto it. I'm assuming this particular 82C929A had a YMF278 or equivalent OPL4 chip on a daughterboard.