there are some "modern" soc's that only implement 486 stuff mostly plus some minor improvements, they reach some 300 mhz iirc, so thats the highest raw power imho, and since gfx is included you could get extreme vga performance as well i guess;
I've always wondered how the Vortex86 line functioned for DOS (along with appropriate bus expansion). Is there an opportunity for new build here?
All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder
my understandig was, that it was made for absolute backwards compatibility, so i guess it must be good; i dont own one, at least, im not even sure id have the coins for it
Photos?
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
http://www.icoptech.com/en/product/Vortex86DX3.html there are SBCs too, this is fscking powerful *drools*
wrote:my understandig was, that it was made for absolute backwards compatibility, so i guess it must be good; i dont own one, at least, im not even sure id have the coins for it
The technology originally came from Rise, and I hear those CPUs were somewhat quirky. That's why I was curious.
All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder
wrote:DTK-PKM-0033S Cyrix 5x86-133/4x @ 3.70 V 1024 KB write-through L2 cache 128 MB FPM 60 ns Win95c/WinNT4 SiS 496NV / SiS 497NU 33 […]
DTK-PKM-0033S
Cyrix 5x86-133/4x @ 3.70 V
1024 KB write-through L2 cache
128 MB FPM 60 ns
Win95c/WinNT4
SiS 496NV / SiS 497NU
33 MHz FSBVoodoo3 3000 16 MB
Adaptec 2940U2W Ultra2 SCSI
Seagate Ultra320 SCSI HDD - 146 GB - 10K RPM - ST3146707LW
3Com 3c515-TX 10/100Base-TX
Creative AWE64Gold with 28 MB SIMMConnSCSI2 CD-ROM - NEC CDR-1910
3.5" CF Card adapter connected to onboard IDE (unused)
Logitech PS/2 MouseMan M-S38 (PS/2 circuit & BIOS mod required)Cachechk
L1 = 273 MB/s
L2 = 93.1 MB/s
RAM Read = 55.5 MB/s (75 ns)
RAM Write = 69.3 MB/s (60 ns)Speedsys
L1 = 191.1 MB/s
L2 = 59.0 MB/s
RAM = 44.0 MB/sGLQuake at 800x600x16 shows 28.0 fps.
-nosound -nocdaudio -nonet -nomouse -nojoy -wavonly
Hey,
Little bit offtopic - may I ask you to upload "DTK PKM-0033S v2013 PS/2" BIOS file? 😀
Are you planning on adding the PS/2 mouse function? This BIOS is really only of interest if you intend to add native PS/2 mouse support. It should work even if you do not add the PS/2 mouse support though. There are probably some settings I've unhidden and set defaults optimal for my system.
For adding PS/2 mouse support, refer to this Re: DTK PKM-0033S +5V pin overheating + PS/2 mouse implementation
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
Thank you, feipoa. No, it's totally beyond my skills to do PS/2 mod and it's my only one PCI 486 motherboard (and have also only one VLB). 🙁
But I'm gonna need it to check one issue that I had with PKM-4DPS BIOS, i.e any ISA sound card (worth mention they all are PnP) I put in this motherboard produce no sound though they are detected correctly and have resources assigned (they produce sound in my 440BX machine).
If you aren't doing the PS/2 mouse mod, then you should use the BIOS I've attached here.
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
I was wondering...given all your testing feipoa, gdjacobs and others, which chipset each of you preferred.
Say you had a choice of two motherboards:
Which would you chose? And would it (chipset) matter if you went with an AMD 5x86@166 vs a Cyrix 5x86@120 ?
My goal here is stability and compatibility over absolute peak performance.
Also, I saw in a different thread that you had aquired an ALi-based motherboard. How did it perform? Stability? CPU compatibility?
Cheers
there were games which did not like the cyrix at all
MB-8433UUD doesn't have the VIA chipset; it contains the UMC 8881/8886 chipset. Boards contain the UMC 8881/8886 and SiS 496/497 chipsets result in similar performance. I think the SiS had a slight edge on the UMC board for RAM read speed, but it was negligible in my opinion.
The SiS boards seem to have the benefit of working with the Voodoo3, if you're into that kind of thing, while UMC boards won't work with the Voodoo3. The UMC boards do, on the other hand, work with the Voodoo2 just fine.
I prefer boards with double-banked cache as they allow for faster cache timings when using a 40 MHz FSB. For the Biostar, this at least allows for running 256K double-banked, while the MSI board will do 1024K double-banked. While the Biostar board can be modded to work with 1024K double-banked, this board doesn't contain memory buffers and you will be limited by this when trying to squeeze more out of your system. I have an ongoing test matrix for this scenario when using different RAM/cache sizes and different CPus for the fastest possible timings. It also varies by RAM module density.
The Biostar board will work fine with 128 MB FRM sticks. Most of SiS 496 BIOSes allow for a max of 32 MB sticks, except for the 4DPS 1.72+ BIOS.
The Biostar board runs well with a 66 MHz FSB if you can find an agreeable CPU. I've run it with 1024K, 66 MHz, and 128 MB for quite some time, but for greater stability, you must run RAM Read at 2 WS. For this reason, I dropped the cache back down to 256K and run RAM Read at 1 ws with only 64 MB RAM.
I also run a SiS 496-based board with 32MBx4 sticks and a Voodoo3, but I don't play with it nearly as much as the Biostar.
My goal has always been peak performance without compromising system stability. Determining the edge of what is stable can take years because these systems aren't run as an everyday computer anymore. I am confident I've found this peak performance + absolute stability point with my Biostar board with 66 MHz FSB. Everyday night I test out new 3D games on it (early 3D only - 1995-1998). I'd like to try 512K double-banked cache with 1ws Read to squeeze out a little more, but I haven't felt like pulling the MB out of the case yet. I modified another Biostar board which uses only jumpers to swap between 256K, 512K, and 1024K of double-banked cache, that is, rather than soldering the configuration shut.
I do not recommend running any single-banked cache PCI 486 board with a 40 MHz FSB unless you don't mind running it slow.
I did find a branded ALi-based PCI 486 board. I think its brand is Gigabyte. It only has single-banked cache though and the performance was fairly disappointing in comparing to the UMC and SiS alternatives. I also have the PCChips M918, which is also ALi-based and allows for double-banked cache, but after some tests it became clear that the cache infrastructure wasn't designed properly on this board, as if it was build for fake-cache or something. I didn't even notice a cache transition in Speedsys unless I set the RAM speed way low and the cache speed all the way high. The performance of this board was absolute trash. I'd like to obtain a double-banked and branded ALi-based board before I make any final comments on the ALi-chipset though.
What are you trying to setup? What is your objective?
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
Yes, thanks for the correction. After working on my FIC PA-2013 SS7 motherboard I got my chipsets confused. 😕
My goals? Initially it was to create a vintage early to mid-90s era gaming machine, but I have been playing around as I always do to see just what can be done. Just because...
So right now, my system plans are as follows:
Now for the silly part:
Given my initial requirements, all this is completely overkill obviously, but I must admit, once I started, I just kept trying to push the limit.
That said, massive overclocking is not one of my goals. If anything it was to be as silent as possible. So speed was to be acheived through the use of the fastest secondary parts (ram, cache, chipset, video and disks).
Any suggestions or advice?
AMD 5x86@120 OR Cyrix 5x86@160
A Cyrix 5x86 running at 160 MHz? That is impossibly ambitious. I assume this was a typo.
Any reason you selected an S3 Savage4 Pro card? It seems unlikely that its OpenGL or DirectX drivers will work in Windows, but it would be interesting to find that out. Have you tested it yet?
TX2plus works great on the Biostar board, however, I don't think you'll be able use CD's in DOS. If that's the case, you'll need to put the CD-ROM on the onboard IDE port.
I'd loose the PCI network card and put in the Voodoo1. You can use a LPT to network adapter or an ISA network card.
When using the 40 Mhz FSB, you should restrict the cache to 256K double-banked.
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
wrote:AMD 5x86@120 OR Cyrix 5x86@160 A Cyrix 5x86 running at 160 MHz? That is impossibly ambitious. I assume this was a typo. […]
AMD 5x86@120 OR Cyrix 5x86@160
A Cyrix 5x86 running at 160 MHz? That is impossibly ambitious. I assume this was a typo.Any reason you selected an S3 Savage4 Pro card? It seems unlikely that its OpenGL or DirectX drivers will work in Windows, but it would be interesting to find that out. Have you tested it yet?
TX2plus works great on the Biostar board, however, I don't think you'll be able use CD's in DOS. If that's the case, you'll need to put the CD-ROM on the onboard IDE port.
I'd loose the PCI network card and put in the Voodoo1. You can use a LPT to network adapter or an ISA network card.
When using the 40 Mhz FSB, you should restrict the cache to 256K double-banked.
Did it again.
I mean't the opposite: AMD 5x86@160 and Cyrix@120MHz
As for the Savage4, I got it at a resonable price, and I wanted what I hope to be the fastest PCI S3 possible and I'm sure its analog video output can only be better than the older generation cards. I don't care about it's 3D features.
For the Promise card, you're right. It just allows me to disable the secondary port.
I wish I had a decent ISA network card. I'll need to look for one. With Any luck we may still have some Etherlink III ISA cards at work lying around.
Cache-wise, you're VERY right. The 256K configuration was by far the most stable, especially when pushing timing and FSB parameters.
Are there any socket 3 boards with pipeline-burst L2? I thought I saw one back in the day. It sure would be useful with faster bus speeds. I also remember seeing a magazine ad for a 486-100 which was supposed to be faster than the competition on account of using 50MHz bus instead of 33MHz. I wonder what memory/cache timings that would have used.
I once tried the 5x86-120 at 60MHz x2 in a VLB board. The video card would bench at 50MB/s in DOS, but the system wasn't stable. When running Win3.1 pretty soon the video driver would have a GPF or something.
wrote:... hope to be the fastest PCI S3 possible and ...
I did get the GF2 working on this motherboard. Wouldn't that be the fastest possible card for this motherboard?
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
Pipeline burst on a socket 3? I don't think so. The M919's manual claimed that there would be one available in the future, but that was just a marketing trick.
I don't know of any OEM which mentioned running a 486-100 on a 50 MHz bus. Are you able to provide this literature? From what I recall, the 486 DX50 had stability problems, so I would be really surprised if someone attempted a 486 DX2-100.
Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.
wrote:Pipeline burst on a socket 3? I don't think so. [...]
Well recently this motherboard sold on ebay (not my auction):
https://www.ebay.de/itm/ALD-PCI5411-PCI-ISA-5 … =p2047675.l2557
According to the documentation of the chipset, it does atleast support pipeline burst l2 cache.
