VOGONS


First post, by MrSzalonna

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Hey here and have a nice day! I am planning to build a pc with (GL)Quake and Doom in mind. I want a card that's...
PCI,
Well supported by Windows 98 SE,
Stable,
Cheap (I live in the middle of Europe).

I already have 3 ISA Trident cards and a AWE32 that I've got for free from a friend's dad... do you know how much are they worth?

Please send me the link(s), too.

Sorry for my English I'm tired. 😀

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Last edited by MrSzalonna on 2024-05-16, 19:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 21, by keenmaster486

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For GLQuake you will need a 3D-capable card. Do not use the ISA Tridents, as they won't even work well in Doom.

See if you can find an Nvidia PCI card.

World's foremost 486 enjoyer.

Reply 2 of 21, by SScorpio

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You'll want to stick to earlier cards since you have an original Pentium versus a P2 or higher.

I'm not sure what's available or pricing for you. But an NVIDIA Riva TNT2 M64 is a good performance match to your CPU, and gives good DOS compatibility. A Voodoo3 would give more support as it can handle GLIDE games, but that's a 3DFX card and has gotten expensive.

Reply 6 of 21, by Gmlb256

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If you can afford 3dfx hardware and want to get the best compatibility, an S3 video card starting from the Trio64V+ paired either with a Voodoo Graphics or Voodoo2 card.

Alternatively, a single nVidia TNT2 M64 PCI card does the job and works with GLQuake.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce2 GTS 32 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 7 of 21, by Errius

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That's exactly the setup I have on my P200 MMX rig. (Trio64V+ and Voodoo2.) I built this system to play one specific game: POD (1997). It's the only computer I've owned since the 1990s that is able to run it properly.

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 8 of 21, by rasz_pl

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For glquake and other 3d accelerated titles:
Best: any pci vga + Voodoo 2, or even Voodoo3 PCI
OK'ish: Any Nvidia TNT 1/2 PCI

Period accurate:
Best: any PCI VGA + voodoo 1/2
OK'ish: Riva 128, Voodoo Rush, PowerVr, S3 Savage pci, Matrox G200 pci, Verite V1000/V2000
Bad: ATI Rage (you will be raging), Matrox Mystique (mistake), jokes like Sis/S3 Virge/S3 Trio3d/Cirrus Logic

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 9 of 21, by MrSzalonna

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fosterwj03 wrote on 2024-05-15, 23:41:

I have a Matrox G200 in my Pentium MMX 233 computer. Works great, and it can display some crazy high resolutions.

Thanks! I'll keep my eye on that card, it's not crazy expensive on Ebay.

Reply 10 of 21, by megatron-uk

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S3 Trio64 / S3 Virge + Voodoo (1 or 2) would be the best all round option for a machine like that.

If I had to stick to one for cost reasons it would be the S3 for compatibility with the widest range of (non-3d) games and operating systems (Dos, windows, Linux).

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 11 of 21, by marxveix

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rasz_pl wrote on 2024-05-16, 02:49:
For glquake and other 3d accelerated titles: Best: any pci vga + Voodoo 2, or even Voodoo3 PCI OK'ish: Any Nvidia TNT 1/2 PCI […]
Show full quote

For glquake and other 3d accelerated titles:
Best: any pci vga + Voodoo 2, or even Voodoo3 PCI
OK'ish: Any Nvidia TNT 1/2 PCI

Period accurate:
Best: any PCI VGA + voodoo 1/2
OK'ish: Riva 128, Voodoo Rush, PowerVr, S3 Savage pci, Matrox G200 pci, Verite V1000/V2000
Bad: ATI Rage (you will be raging), Matrox Mystique (mistake), jokes like Sis/S3 Virge/S3 Trio3d/Cirrus Logic

Rage4 (Rage128 Pro PCI - Direct3D,OpenGL) and Rage3 (Rage Pro 8MB PCI - Direct3D, OpenGL, 3DCIF) is not that bad. For me Rage2 cards are bad performers, not Rage3/Rage4.

31 different MiniGL/OpenGL Win9x files for all Rage 3 cards: Re: ATi RagePro OpenGL files

Reply 12 of 21, by theelf

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Love S3 cards but one problem i found in all trio and virge i tested is that 320x240 resolution use 70hz not 60hz, in DOS can be solved loading scitech vesa, but at least for me, the trick did not work under windows and directx, ddraw, etc games, still use 70hz refresh rate, and never get a smoth scroll

For example, Sonic CD in windows 95, using a cirrus logic card i get smoth scroll, but impossible using any s3 card i tested

For me this kills 2D gaming in windows, since 320x240 is a common resolution for console ports for example, and they expect 60hz

Reply 14 of 21, by kingcake

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theelf wrote on 2024-05-16, 07:49:

Love S3 cards but one problem i found in all trio and virge i tested is that 320x240 resolution use 70hz not 60hz, in DOS can be solved loading scitech vesa, but at least for me, the trick did not work under windows and directx, ddraw, etc games, still use 70hz refresh rate, and never get a smoth scroll

For example, Sonic CD in windows 95, using a cirrus logic card i get smoth scroll, but impossible using any s3 card i tested

For me this kills 2D gaming in windows, since 320x240 is a common resolution for console ports for example, and they expect 60hz

Cirrus Logic 5446 is the best 2D PCI card, period. Ignore the S3 bandwagon people who have probably never even tested them.

Reply 15 of 21, by kingcake

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kingcake wrote on 2024-05-16, 21:29:
theelf wrote on 2024-05-16, 07:49:
Love S3 cards but one problem i found in all trio and virge i tested is that 320x240 resolution use 70hz not 60hz, in DOS can b […]
Show full quote

Love S3 cards but one problem i found in all trio and virge i tested is that 320x240 resolution use 70hz not 60hz, in DOS can be solved loading scitech vesa, but at least for me, the trick did not work under windows and directx, ddraw, etc games, still use 70hz refresh rate, and never get a smoth scroll

For example, Sonic CD in windows 95, using a cirrus logic card i get smoth scroll, but impossible using any s3 card i tested

For me this kills 2D gaming in windows, since 320x240 is a common resolution for console ports for example, and they expect 60hz

Cirrus Logic 5446 is the best 2D DOS dumb framebuffer PCI card, period. Ignore the S3 bandwagon people who have probably never even tested them.

Reply 16 of 21, by kingcake

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theelf wrote on 2024-05-16, 07:49:

Love S3 cards but one problem i found in all trio and virge i tested is that 320x240 resolution use 70hz not 60hz, in DOS can be solved loading scitech vesa, but at least for me, the trick did not work under windows and directx, ddraw, etc games, still use 70hz refresh rate, and never get a smoth scroll

For example, Sonic CD in windows 95, using a cirrus logic card i get smoth scroll, but impossible using any s3 card i tested

For me this kills 2D gaming in windows, since 320x240 is a common resolution for console ports for example, and they expect 60hz

Cirrus Logic 5446 is the best 2D DOS dumb framebuffer PCI card, period. Ignore the S3 bandwagon people who have probably never even tested them.

Reply 17 of 21, by Dan386DX

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Pino wrote on 2024-05-16, 16:35:

a TNT2 vanta (m64) PCI would not be period correct, but it's cheap and highly compatible.

Yes, this is the one I use in my 6x86 (233) system which is kinda similar performing to OP's MMX. The only complaint I have is that Windows is far less responsive once the drivers are installed because the driver overhead seems quite heavy.

90s PC: IBM 6x86 MX 233MHz. TNT2 M64. 256MB/1GB.
Boring modern PC: i7-12700, RX 7800XT. 32GB/1TB.
Fixer upper project: NEC Powermate 486SX/25. 16MB/400MB.

Reply 18 of 21, by zuldan

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MrSzalonna wrote on 2024-05-15, 17:57:

I already have 3 ISA Trident cards and a AWE32 that I've got for free from a friend's dad... do you know how much are they worth?

The CT3900 is the best AWE32. You are very lucky to get that for free.

Reply 19 of 21, by DEAT

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kingcake wrote on 2024-05-16, 21:29:

Cirrus Logic 5446 is the best 2D PCI card, period. Ignore the S3 bandwagon people who have probably never even tested them.

Agreed with this - I've had numerous issues with outputting Win9x 320x240 games on S3 and ATI cards, and the Cirrus Logic 5430/5434/5446 cards have been perfect with sharp output. They're also one of the few PCI cards that work with MoraffWare's HOTTEST SVGA GAMING!!! modes along with most Trident 2D cards, and the speed benefit is massive when using 1024x768x256.