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Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 41841 of 44650, by xcomcmdr

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I have real hardware that is not period correct. I prefer it that way, it enables me to play a very wide range of DOS and Windows 9X games that won't run on emulators with a single machine.

It's also the same machine I had back in the day, so it's period correct. 😁

Any real hardware has its place and usage, and emulators don't replace it at all.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-01-18, 01:04. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 41843 of 44650, by Ligend

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vad4r wrote on 2022-01-07, 22:31:
Nope. I only know an old report in German https://www.computerbase.de/2008-01/mushkin-m … 0-gt-im-handel/ https://www.computerba […]
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Ligend wrote on 2022-01-07, 20:32:
RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-07, 11:06:

The STB Horizon 64 seems to be complete. Let's hope it works. There is currently only one on Ebay for 80€. Are they really that valuable?

Never heard about Falcon 64 before, and STB Horizon 64 seems to be the only card based on that chipset. Compatibility with DOS games seems to be good, and not that slow either. I have to get one someday, but for definitely less than 80 EUR. 😉

Nope.
I only know an old report in German
https://www.computerbase.de/2008-01/mushkin-m … 0-gt-im-handel/
https://www.computerbase.de/preisvergleich/eu … 01-a307213.html

Checked those links, including comments, but unsure how they are related to STB Horizon 64. Do I miss something?

Reply 41844 of 44650, by HanJammer

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-08, 22:17:
HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 21:36:

but for true and real 'retrocomputing' or 'retrogaming' experience I simply need and want hardware which is from the same "era".

Loud fans, slow ass HDD's and unreliable PSU's are no things I need to re-experience.

It's all part of the experience. 😀

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Reply 41845 of 44650, by HanSolo

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HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 21:36:

Doesn't it? If I wouldn't care for using software on a period correct machine then I would simply use an emulator which is easier, faster and certainly takes less space 😁 but for true and real 'retrocomputing' or 'retrogaming' experience I simply need and want hardware which is from the same "era". Most people I talk to have the same point of view...

All people that I know don't care about period-correctness but they do want to have 'real' hardware. They don't want noisy fans and harddisks or old power supplies. But they want an old tower and keyboard, an original soundcard (maybe their own one from the old days or the one they couldn't afford back then) and maybe a CRT if the wife accepts it 😉
But whatever floats your boat is fine. An interesting aspect of this hobby is seeing all the different approaches.

Reply 41846 of 44650, by cyclone3d

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HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 23:40:
RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-08, 22:17:
HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 21:36:

but for true and real 'retrocomputing' or 'retrogaming' experience I simply need and want hardware which is from the same "era".

Loud fans, slow ass HDD's and unreliable PSU's are no things I need to re-experience.

It's all part of the experience. 😀

Hah.. That part of the "experience" can DIAF for all I care.

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Reply 41847 of 44650, by Thermalwrong

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HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 23:40:
RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-08, 22:17:
HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 21:36:

but for true and real 'retrocomputing' or 'retrogaming' experience I simply need and want hardware which is from the same "era".

Loud fans, slow ass HDD's and unreliable PSU's are no things I need to re-experience.

It's all part of the experience. 😀

For me, enjoyment of old hardware pretty much all hinges upon the sound it makes. Noisy hard drives that are pre-FDB? nothx. Inefficient power supplies that run at 100% fan all the time while moving almost no air? pass. CPU fans that are all 50mm and 4000rpm+? Nah.
Flash memory and modern power supplies that have smart fan controllers, are the best thing that ever happened my experience of vintage PCs.

The only thing that swings in the other direction is how MFM hard drives sound, maybe how some floppy drives sound.

Reply 41850 of 44650, by TrashPanda

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HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 23:40:
RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-08, 22:17:
HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-08, 21:36:

but for true and real 'retrocomputing' or 'retrogaming' experience I simply need and want hardware which is from the same "era".

Loud fans, slow ass HDD's and unreliable PSU's are no things I need to re-experience.

It's all part of the experience. 😀

Already experienced that back when it was normal, I refuse to use old HDDs in my retro builds, I usually keep one in there with power just for the sound if I think the build needs it, but I always use CF or SD > CF adaptors for data storage, sometimes I even use a Sata card and use a sata SSD or reliable quiet Sata HDD. Same applies to PSUs, if I can change a PSU for a modern quiet ATX one I will even if I have to use adaptors to get -5v or get a AT connector, its not about the experience with old PSUs its about not having a crusty old 20-30 year old PSU die and take valuable hardware with it.

Same applied to Floppy drives, I have both 3.5 and 5.25 drives but I dont like to use the disks if I can avoid it, I worry that using old game disks runs a high risk of destroying the old disks or damaging the drive itself, so I have them there more for the noise than general use.

Fans always get replaced with Noctua equivalents where possible again its a reliability issue, worst thing to have happen is a important fan die because you wanted "MAH EXPERIENCE" which damages or kills hardware that didn't need to be subjected to such negligence. If I want the old fan sound I can just leave one in the system with power connected but put it where it doesnt matter.

I love retro computing but there are some aspects of it I am forever glad I dont have to reexperience.

@MFM drives, they really do sound amazing but with how fragile they are becoming with age I worry each time I decide to fire one up that it may be the last time it does so, so I have a recording of one 🤣 that I can play when such silly nostalgia hits me 😜 ...Same for RLL HDDs. ...everyone remembers MFM but RLL gets forgotten 🙁

Im crazy not stupid, well not stupid enough to make claims that are total nonsense.

Reply 41851 of 44650, by Pierre32

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A pickup from Gumtree which I'll turn into an XP build.

ASUS M2A-VM HDMI
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Case is an Apevia X-QPack: https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/Apevia_X_Qpack/1/

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Reply 41852 of 44650, by Warlord

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Pierre32 wrote on 2022-01-09, 05:45:
A pickup from Gumtree which I'll turn into an XP build. […]
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A pickup from Gumtree which I'll turn into an XP build.

ASUS M2A-VM HDMI
Athlon 64 X2 5000 (I think)
4GB RAM
Case is an Apevia X-QPack: https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/Apevia_X_Qpack/1/

s-l2000.jpeg
s-l2000 (1).jpeg
s-l2000 (6).jpeg
s-l2000 (8).jpeg

(seller pics)

I like it. great layout for that size of case. better than the thermaltakes.

Hanjammer is a bro. idk why everyone piles on him, like he is entitled to his opinion. I don't exactly care so much about period correct but for me I need to use parts that are atleast compatible with my games. And in that case peroid correct might be shit becasue GPU of that erra might have sucked donky balls, same with CPU.

Last edited by Warlord on 2022-01-09, 07:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 41853 of 44650, by bjwil1991

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Won an ASUS P3B-F board and PIII Slot 1 CPU to replace the P2B-F board until it gets repaired.

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Reply 41855 of 44650, by xcomcmdr

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Warlord wrote on 2022-01-09, 06:53:
Pierre32 wrote on 2022-01-09, 05:45:
A pickup from Gumtree which I'll turn into an XP build. […]
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A pickup from Gumtree which I'll turn into an XP build.

ASUS M2A-VM HDMI
Athlon 64 X2 5000 (I think)
4GB RAM
Case is an Apevia X-QPack: https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/Apevia_X_Qpack/1/

s-l2000.jpeg
s-l2000 (1).jpeg
s-l2000 (6).jpeg
s-l2000 (8).jpeg

(seller pics)

I like it. great layout for that size of case. better than the thermaltakes.

Hanjammer is a bro. idk why everyone piles on him, like he is entitled to his opinion. I don't exactly care so much about period correct but for me I need to use parts that are atleast compatible with my games. And in that case peroid correct might be shit becasue GPU of that erra might have sucked donky balls, same with CPU.

I have a laptop with a GPU that sucks balls. ATI Rage Mobility which only really works for software rendering or 2D games. Forget anything 3D accelerated. But it is period correct of course.
I guess I should use this shit every day instead of a desktop with a GeForce 4 + Voodoo 2 combo to get "DA TRUE RETRO EXPERIENCE". 🤣

Reply 41856 of 44650, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

Same applies to PSUs, if I can change a PSU for a modern quiet ATX one I will even if I have to use adaptors to get -5v or get a AT connector, its not about the experience with old PSUs its about not having a crusty old 20-30 year old PSU die and take valuable hardware with it.

Yeah, I won't shed any tears if anyone ruins valuable hardware because the PSU has to be "authentic". Maybe for the hardware itself, but definitely not for the person.
Problem with these -5V adapter is, that they generate the -5V from -12V. Modern PSUs have weak -12V rails. I prefer Enermax EG365AX, which is pretty much the last PSU to still have -5V. 1A on both -5V and -12V.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

Same applied to Floppy drives, I have both 3.5 and 5.25 drives but I dont like to use the disks if I can avoid it, I worry that using old game disks runs a high risk of destroying the old disks or damaging the drive itself, so I have them there more for the noise than general use.

Haha, I put a floppy drive in all my retro machines for the same reason. The floppy trying to boot gives me nostalgic tingles. But I'll also get floppy emulators for each machine.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

Fans always get replaced with Noctua equivalents where possible again its a reliability issue, worst thing to have happen is a important fan die because you wanted "MAH EXPERIENCE" which damages or kills hardware that didn't need to be subjected to such negligence.

Again, I absolutely agree. Valuable hardware shouldn't be used with unreliable fans.
One could argue, it's their money so it shouldn't bother us. But if they unnecessarily ruin hardware and buy replacements, they will thin out the stocks. This results in higher prices which hurts us as well and not just them.

Warlord wrote on 2022-01-09, 06:53:

I don't exactly care so much about period correct but for me I need to use parts that are atleast compatible with my games. And in that case peroid correct might be shit becasue GPU of that erra might have sucked donky balls, same with CPU.

I got a great idea for HanJammer!
Play Master of Orion 2 on a period accurate machine. That means, you're limited to Pentium 200MHz. And you're not allowed to use another machine during turn calculations, because that wouldn't be authentic! You have to stare at the screen for an hour. Is that the retro experience you're after? Or try Civilization 2 on a period accurate machine. Also max Pentium 200MHz.
I have the collectors edition of MoO4 which includes MoO1 to 3. Playing MoO2 on a modern machine under DOSbox was a refreshing experience, but the sound glitches are super annoying. At some point I just turned the music off. In this case the best experience is with one of the last boards which support Win98. MoO2 benefits greatly from overkill builds. No downtimes, no sound glitches. Best of both worlds.

Last edited by RaiderOfLostVoodoo on 2022-01-09, 14:15. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 41857 of 44650, by HanJammer

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

(...)

Fans always get replaced with Noctua equivalents where possible again its a reliability issue, worst thing to have happen is a important fan die because you wanted "MAH EXPERIENCE" which damages or kills hardware that didn't need to be subjected to such negligence. If I want the old fan sound I can just leave one in the system with power connected but put it where it doesnt matter.

Fortunatelly good period-correct fans (ie. from Sunon) are readly available. Also the problem is that if you substitute the parts of the system with some modern replacement (because of care for hardware loosing it's value due to the damage) - then it's looses it's value anyway because it's no longer original (I'm not talking about custom builds here - rather about some brand machines like IBMs or Commodores)... At the same time - It's not like we are dealing with some super unique hardware anyway, parts always can be replaced - frequently with OE parts...

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

@MFM drives, they really do sound amazing but with how fragile they are becoming with age I worry each time I decide to fire one up that it may be the last time it does so, so I have a recording of one 🤣 that I can play when such silly nostalgia hits me 😜 ...Same for RLL HDDs. ...everyone remembers MFM but RLL gets forgotten 🙁

Hardware is meant to be used like cars are meant to be driven. Again - those are not museum-grade unique pieces. Old hardware dies just from lying on the shelf (applies to HDDs too) - I recently had a machine which I wanted to sell - it was working couple months ago but when I finally decided to sell it - it no longer even POSTed (same happened to my beloved ASUS K7M I bought it was brand new - last time it was regularly used in the PC like 10 years ago - it was working perfectly time, but now - after a period in the box on the shelf - it's no longer stable). I have a strong suspicion that more hard drives died from not being used at all (happens to old Seagate MFM and RLL drives all the time) than from being used from time to time... In fact if it's dies during regular use - it's usually way easier to find the cause and repair it (and again - same with cars). Personally I would regret more never using a motherboard or a hard drive which died just sitting on the shelf more than one that served me well for couple of years/months or even weeks.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-01-18, 01:01. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 41858 of 44650, by TrashPanda

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HanJammer wrote on 2022-01-09, 13:41:
Fortunatelly good period-correct fans (ie. from Sunon) are readly available. Also the problem is that if you substitute the part […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

(...)

Fans always get replaced with Noctua equivalents where possible again its a reliability issue, worst thing to have happen is a important fan die because you wanted "MAH EXPERIENCE" which damages or kills hardware that didn't need to be subjected to such negligence. If I want the old fan sound I can just leave one in the system with power connected but put it where it doesnt matter.

Fortunatelly good period-correct fans (ie. from Sunon) are readly available. Also the problem is that if you substitute the parts of the system with some modern replacement (because of care for hardware loosing it's value due to the damage) - then it's looses it's value anyway because it's no longer original (I'm not talking about custom builds here - rather about some brand machines like IBMs or Commodores)... At the same time - It's not like we are dealing with some super unique hardware anyway, parts always can be replaced - frequently with OE parts...

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-01-09, 04:31:

@MFM drives, they really do sound amazing but with how fragile they are becoming with age I worry each time I decide to fire one up that it may be the last time it does so, so I have a recording of one 🤣 that I can play when such silly nostalgia hits me 😜 ...Same for RLL HDDs. ...everyone remembers MFM but RLL gets forgotten 🙁

Hardware is meant to be used like cars are meant to be driven. Again - those are not museum-grade unique pieces. Old hardware dies just from lying on the shelf (applies to HDDs too) - I recently had a machine which I wanted to sell - it was working couple months ago but when I finally decided to sell it - it no longer even POSTed (same happened to my beloved ASUS K7M I bought it was brand new - last time it was regularly used in the PC like 10 years ago - it was working perfectly time, but now - after a period in the box on the shelf - it's no longer stable). I have a strong suspicion that more hard drives died from not being used at all (happens to old Seagate MFM and RLL drives all the time) than from being used from time to time... In fact if it's dies during regular use - it's usually way easier to find the cause and repair it (and again - same with cars). Personally I would regret more never using a motherboard or a hard drive which died just sitting on the shelf more than one that served me well for couple of years/months or even weeks.

God . .old Seagate drives ...the bane of every IT professionals job back in the day, same for a particular batch of IBM HDDs that failed if you sneezed in their direction. I have a soft spot for MFM drives after owning an IBM 286 machine (The big gray/beige box type with the red clacky switch on the side) with one, that old brick was very reliable and to this day I dont like seeing them die, so if I find one in working order im reluctant to use it as a daily driver in a retro build.

I can understand you point of view about keeping old hdds in use as a way of catching issues early or for diagnosis but with how old MFM drives are im not sure how easy it would be to actually repair one that has failed.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-01-18, 01:02. Edited 2 times in total.

Im crazy not stupid, well not stupid enough to make claims that are total nonsense.

Reply 41859 of 44650, by wiretap

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-01-09, 11:25:

Problem with these -5V adapter is, that they generate the -5V from -12V. Modern PSUs have weak -12V rails. I prefer Enermax EG365AX, which is pretty much the last PSU to still have -5V. 1A on both -5V and -12V.

The adapters work fine.. You're only drawing a few dozen milliamps off the -12V for the -5V on most cards that utilize it. Even bottom of the barrel Corsair PSU's provide at least 300mA.

Last edited by wiretap on 2022-01-09, 14:38. Edited 2 times in total.

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