HanJammer wrote on 2022-05-03, 20:57:

SteveC wrote on 2022-05-03, 20:09:

For the price of a pint of beer I bought these (seller's photo and description) […]
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For the price of a pint of beer I bought these (seller's photo and description)

Intel® Pentium® 4 220/512
Intel® Pentium® 3 1000/256/133
AMD Athlon XKDA3000#

I have a pin straightening session ahead! 😀

And I have bought yet another ThinkPad (R50e) - looks like a Celeron/Pentium M but I have no info on it yet!

Is Socket A and coppermine P3 already a thing? I'm getting them all the time (for free, I wouldn't pay for them, I just don't have a heart to allow them go to trash any longer, few years ago we were trashing loads of them at work), but It wouldn't really cross my mind to even show people that I got some because they are so abudant and common... I don't really treat them as a vintage hardware and I didn't really liked these platforms when they were released... What's general opinion about them?

For some of us definitely. I started collecting them a while ago. High end stuff (3000+, 3200+, good nf2 boards) tends to be scarce and will get expensive as time goes on. I started collecting skt 478 and 423 stuff as well, despite not being a big fan of the platform. Personally I started considering LGA775 and 754/939 vintage as well, and I plan on getting my hands on the more interesting parts right now while they're cheap and plentiful. Especially late high end parts, like P35 / P45 chipset boards, and LGA775 i865 boards since they have great win98 support and an AGP slot.

HanJammer wrote on 2022-05-04, 10:56:

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-04, 09:00:

I too have a hard time considering anything this side of the year 2000 as "retro" and Athlons in particular since those are the […]
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ChrisK wrote on 2022-05-04, 08:51:

Same holds true here in Germany. Almost impossible to find s7 / s370 / sA. Even s478 started to fade out in the last 1-2 years. Still available but more and more decreasing.

I too have a hard time considering anything this side of the year 2000 as "retro" and Athlons in particular since those are the platform I probably did most contemporary tinkering with - including quite some on 5+ year old systems that were still considered ok for basic use by some.

Good reason why S370 and A feel retro: SPGA package. Still some fins to bend. Mixed expansion ports. P-ATA.

I'd say they've definitely reached the "need to actually buy" stage of rareness, but nothing more.

Good reason why S7 is much more retro: Apart from exotics in S370, last platform to combine AMD and Intel etc. Last platform mainly AT.

Yet, the "80486": Last chip with a simple number and no marketing brand, no intel inside... last all-ISA platform.

To clarify my previous post - vintage stuff (vintage would be a correct word here, unlike "retro", because retro means items that are modern, made recently, just with a design or functionality inspired by old stuff - ie. A500 Mini) has pretty strict/clear definition - 20 years or older, so technically both S370 and SA are vintage, it's just a bit hard to believe because they both feel so recent to me 😉
My only SA platform I keep is MSI K7D Master with dual Athlon MPs. I have several other motherboards and heaps of SA CPUs but I don't really care about them too much... Same applies to S370 - one dual CPU platform (Abit BP6 with Dual Celerons) is all I need... and I don't think I will even play with it in the next 2-3 years...

Technically one could actually consider a retro PC as real retro, since the system itself is actually newly build but inspired by old stuff, often assisted with modern stuff like flash drives (which in itself is not even cutting edge anymore in some regards), floppy simulators and things like reproduction PCBs, but with mostly old items in the mix 😋
I mean if this is not retro, then a 80 year old car with a couple modern reproduction replacement parts and restored paintings can also not be retro 😜

PCs being so modular make it all the more interesting I think 😜

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-04, 10:48:

I guess im a bit odd, I have little interest in anything older than a Pentium, and my lack of interest isn't because of the CPUs […]
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I guess im a bit odd, I have little interest in anything older than a Pentium, and my lack of interest isn't because of the CPUs.

Its the lack of integrated systems on the older systems that I simply have no desire to revisit, I have several Pentium class setups I can use that are capable of running at XT speeds if I really need to run software that old and if I really need to then I do have a SBC 386 that I could use. (Now that I think about it, I have no idea if it even still works)

I would make an exception here .. a monochrome amber or green XT would be nice to have around, same for a CGA/EGA 286, they are rather unique due to the display adaptor and you can certainly make a case for using one with software that doesnt support VGA/Protected Mode. But if the software does support VGA and will run on a 386/486 then really a socket 7 Pentium/K5/K6 would work just as well if not better while providing integrated IO and you can even slow these CPUs down by simply disabling cache.

Socket 370/462 to me are retro setups, I consider anything pre SATA to fit that name perfectly.

I have zero interest, bordering on contempt for Super Socket 7 (and Aureal). There are even some items in my hardware list below in my collection I don’t care for, but absolutely nothing Aureal or SS7. I’m the oddball!

In general:

Turn offs:

Pre-Pentium II 440LX
Anything Super Socket Socket 7
Pre-ATI Rage 3D Pro
Post-ATI Radeon 8500 to today.
Between 8 and 9 Series nVidia
Post-66MHz Celerons
SCSI
IDE Hard disks
Pre-AGP video cards (some exceptions)
Aureal
CMedia
Pentium 4
Post 66MHz Celerons
Duron/Sempron
Cyrix
Anything AMD Phenom to today.
AT
NLX (Yuck!)

Turn ons:

Pentium II/III and Core2 to today
Between AMD Athlon - Athlon X2
3dfx/Quantum3D
3com NICs
Non-standard early 3D cards
Non-crippled Sound Blasters
NVidia up to 7 series
NVidia 900 series to today
SDRAM/DDR/SGRAM/GDDR
Beige cases
ATX

I had the same feeling about Super Socket 7 for years. I've only recently bought a single Super Socket 7, just to flesh out my collection a bit.

I also have no Socket A boards, of which I am equally uninterested. I've read about the CPU dies easily damaging, overheating if the cooler isn't on properly, and needed special treatment on the 5V rails. I just don't want to bother with all of that.

Yeah, well, is it "retro (...computing gear)" a.k.a. "obsolete" or simply a good price? The small specialized OEM that sold it still advertises a "silent server" with that Chenbro case on their website.
Anyway, picked this monster up today for a single coin, the winning ebay bid. By no means a large Server, but for a PC case, well... from the front, it looks like a somewhat more bulky mini tower, so bit over 40 x 20 cm:

But from the side, it's humongous:

It's over 60 cm deep, basically making room for a square ATX board and then some. Includes a 4 x 3.5" S-ATA drive cage that screams "put a RAID in here!!!" And three top notch "Noiseblocker" brand 120 mm fans, that alone was worth the trip. Also, it's built like a tank, work out schedule for today, check.

Now, where will I find a fat old dual motherboard that will do that thing justice - without needing to sell a kidney? What generation would be appropriate?

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-04, 14:20:

I had the same feeling about Super Socket 7 for years. I've only recently bought a single Super Socket 7, just to flesh out my collection a bit.

I also have no Socket A boards, of which I am equally uninterested. I've read about the CPU dies easily damaging, overheating if the cooler isn't on properly, and needed special treatment on the 5V rails. I just don't want to bother with all of that.

Everybody has their own likes and dislikes.

I have a FIC 503+SS7 board around here somewhere that I used when it was new and not since (have better uses for an AT case). K6 cpus just don't do anything for me at the moment but that could change. I hated P4 machines for ages but have picked up a few in the last decade.

Socket A boards I have quite a few of, mostly because they were almost free on ebay years ago because of lack of interest and bad capacitors (easy fix). I use old PS that had a decent 5V rail with no issues, never had a CPU crack or overheat either. Used an Athlon XP when they first came out with a ECS board that did DDR or SDRAM as my gaming machine and then jumped to a late P4 with hyperthreading for a while. I find the whole Socket A interesting because they lasted a long time from SDRAM to DDR and bus speeds from 100 to 400and the MP dual processor series. I have a 3200+ 400 FSB system on the KVM in my room for old games.

Socket3 wrote on 2022-05-04, 11:29:

HanJammer wrote on 2022-05-03, 20:57:

SteveC wrote on 2022-05-03, 20:09:

For the price of a pint of beer I bought these (seller's photo and description) […]
Show full quote

For the price of a pint of beer I bought these (seller's photo and description)

Intel® Pentium® 4 220/512
Intel® Pentium® 3 1000/256/133
AMD Athlon XKDA3000#

I have a pin straightening session ahead! 😀

And I have bought yet another ThinkPad (R50e) - looks like a Celeron/Pentium M but I have no info on it yet!

Is Socket A and coppermine P3 already a thing? I'm getting them all the time (for free, I wouldn't pay for them, I just don't have a heart to allow them go to trash any longer, few years ago we were trashing loads of them at work), but It wouldn't really cross my mind to even show people that I got some because they are so abudant and common... I don't really treat them as a vintage hardware and I didn't really liked these platforms when they were released... What's general opinion about them?

For some of us definitely. I started collecting them a while ago. High end stuff (3000+, 3200+, good nf2 boards) tends to be scarce and will get expensive as time goes on. I started collecting skt 478 and 423 stuff as well, despite not being a big fan of the platform. Personally I started considering LGA775 and 754/939 vintage as well, and I plan on getting my hands on the more interesting parts right now while they're cheap and plentiful. Especially late high end parts, like P35 / P45 chipset boards, and LGA775 i865 boards since they have great win98 support and an AGP slot.

Haven't seen pentium III on sale in Australia for very long time now.

If it were me, the only period I hate the most is anything 486 and older that's strictly ISA only. Add PCI, an onboard HDD controller, and I'd greatly take it.
The reason I hate anything lower than PCI based 486 - you need offboard cards for almost everything, not just VGA and sound.

@cuttoon
That chassis has mounting holes for 60(3/4) xeons and possibly socket 771. that should be your answer.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-04, 14:20:

I had the same feeling about Super Socket 7 for years. I've only recently bought a single Super Socket 7, just to flesh out my collection a bit.

I also have no Socket A boards, of which I am equally uninterested. I've read about the CPU dies easily damaging, overheating if the cooler isn't on properly, and needed special treatment on the 5V rails. I just don't want to bother with all of that.

I have quite a few SS7 boards. First new build I did as a kid was a SS7 setup. Before that, most was used parts and I went straight from an AMD 5x86 -133 overclocked to 160 to an AMD either K6 or K6-2.

Slot A and Socket A was also a big thing for me and I have quite a few boards and CPUs.

Even have the elusive Biostar M7MIA which is the only Socket A board that I know of that uses DDR RAM and has an ISA slot.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-04, 15:18:

Yeah, well, is it "retro (...computing gear)" a.k.a. "obsolete" or simply a good price? The small specialized OEM that sold it s […]
Show full quote

Yeah, well, is it "retro (...computing gear)" a.k.a. "obsolete" or simply a good price? The small specialized OEM that sold it still advertises a "silent server" with that Chenbro case on their website.
Anyway, picked this monster up today for a single coin, the winning ebay bid. By no means a large Server, but for a PC case, well... from the front, it looks like a somewhat more bulky mini tower, so bit over 40 x 20 cm:100_0672.JPG
But from the side, it's humongous:100_0671.JPG
It's over 60 cm deep, basically making room for a square ATX board and then some. Includes a 4 x 3.5" S-ATA drive cage that screams "put a RAID in here!!!" And three top notch "Noiseblocker" brand 120 mm fans, that alone was worth the trip. Also, it's built like a tank, work out schedule for today, check.

Now, where will I find a fat old dual motherboard that will do that thing justice - without needing to sell a kidney? What generation would be appropriate?

Fantastic tower - I would like to get one of these elongated towers; I like them a lot; so roomy.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-04, 16:38:

If it were me, the only period I hate the most is anything 486 and older that's strictly ISA only. Add PCI, an onboard HDD controller, and I'd greatly take it.
The reason I hate anything lower than PCI based 486 - you need offboard cards for almost everything, not just VGA and sound.

I have a similar opinion. I think that they are "cool" and I respect anyone who owns or maintains one of these beasts. But I also know what kind of real estate it takes to store and setup one of these. And this is beyond my ability or desire to collect.

If I could, I would own at least one IBM 5150 or 5151 with a green or amber screen. They are pretty sexy. But I can't imagine ever actually using it for anything. I'm allergic to video modes prior to EGA text and VGA graphics.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-04, 16:38:

If it were me, the only period I hate the most is anything 486 and older that's strictly ISA only. Add PCI, an onboard HDD controller, and I'd greatly take it.
The reason I hate anything lower than PCI based 486 - you need offboard cards for almost everything, not just VGA and sound.

Personally I ended up putting the bottom of the barrel at 386(DX). And it has to all be standard AT. I don't like proprietary stuff since it ends up just taking up more space and being more inconvenient for me to tinker with.
ISA-only was alright for me (as was having to add in all kinds of cards we take for granted these days, so to say) since I do at least have some decent ISA graphics cards (or should I say, display adapters or video cards? 😜 ) and ample AT mini towers to put such a rig in. it just never happened because I got stuck spending my time with more modern projects 😋
I do have some very limited stuff predating 386, but mostly loose odds and tidbits like memory modules or harddrives and floppy drives.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-04, 16:38:

If it were me, the only period I hate the most is anything 486 and older that's strictly ISA only. Add PCI, an onboard HDD controller, and I'd greatly take it.
The reason I hate anything lower than PCI based 486 - you need offboard cards for almost everything, not just VGA and sound.

Same here. I'm not even nostalgic about 486 computers and older, and is quite difficult to get decent components for these platforms nowdays.

HanJammer wrote on 2022-05-04, 10:56:

vintage stuff ... has pretty strict/clear definition - 20 years or older

Well, if by "strict/clear" definition you mean for you then you're not wrong, but the term doesn't have any specific year amount attached to it. It just means something old, or from the past when used in this context.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-04, 17:03:

Same here. I'm not even nostalgic about 486 computers and older, and is quite difficult to get decent components for these platforms nowdays.

I don't mind the 486. When I was a kid, my dad let me used his Compaq 486 laptop to play Doom. It also ran Windows 3.1 and, later, Windows 95. It had 24 MB of RAM and was quite snappy.

This is probably why my minimum acceptable performance for a 486 is that it must be able to run Doom and Windows 3.1. I don't have a lot of exposure to earlier games, outside of someone else's computer or something that was installed in a school computer lab or library.

zapbuzz wrote on 2022-05-04, 16:38:

Socket3 wrote on 2022-05-04, 11:29:

HanJammer wrote on 2022-05-03, 20:57:

Is Socket A and coppermine P3 already a thing? I'm getting them all the time (for free, I wouldn't pay for them, I just don't have a heart to allow them go to trash any longer, few years ago we were trashing loads of them at work), but It wouldn't really cross my mind to even show people that I got some because they are so abudant and common... I don't really treat them as a vintage hardware and I didn't really liked these platforms when they were released... What's general opinion about them?

For some of us definitely. I started collecting them a while ago. High end stuff (3000+, 3200+, good nf2 boards) tends to be scarce and will get expensive as time goes on. I started collecting skt 478 and 423 stuff as well, despite not being a big fan of the platform. Personally I started considering LGA775 and 754/939 vintage as well, and I plan on getting my hands on the more interesting parts right now while they're cheap and plentiful. Especially late high end parts, like P35 / P45 chipset boards, and LGA775 i865 boards since they have great win98 support and an AGP slot.

Haven't seen pentium III on sale in Australia for very long time now.

I've bought three complete Pentium III systems from Aussie sellers in the last year, one with Dual Voodoo2 cards in it and another that was made with nothing but NOS parts, so they are around if you look.

I wouldn't mind a ISA 486 as long as I'm given the WHOLE PC with the cards. Building one myself would be way too expensive. The cards (especially over-the-top stuff) are pretty expensive and even more scarce than most retro stuff already is.

A PCI based Socket 3 would be the lowest I'd go. While not as easy to find, once you own a PCI skt3 mainoard, you're pretty much hassle free, mainly because PCI is much more available than ISA stuff is (except sound cards though, ISA sound cards seem to be easier to find than anything else ISA in that regard.) and you're at least not required to own some almost-nobody-has-ever-heard-of controller card to have IDE and floppy functionality - maybe a separate floppy controller at best, since as far as I know CD-ROM booting wasn't a thing until Pentium came to exist, so you had to have a boot floppy w/ CD-ROM drivers.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-04, 18:28:

I wouldn't mind a ISA 486 as long as I'm given the WHOLE PC with the cards. Building one myself would be way too expensive. The cards (especially over-the-top stuff) are pretty expensive and even more scarce than most retro stuff already is.

A PCI based Socket 3 would be the lowest I'd go. While not as easy to find, once you own a PCI skt3 mainoard, you're pretty much hassle free, mainly because PCI is much more available than ISA stuff is (except sound cards though, ISA sound cards seem to be easier to find than anything else ISA in that regard.) and you're at least not required to own some almost-nobody-has-ever-heard-of controller card to have IDE and floppy functionality - maybe a separate floppy controller at best, since as far as I know CD-ROM booting wasn't a thing until Pentium came to exist, so you had to have a boot floppy w/ CD-ROM drivers.

I forgot to mention that even 486 PCI is still jumper hell 😜
But I get where you're coming from. In the end you got to draw the line somewhere.
I think if I had started retro computing these days I'd probably not go pre-ATX. Perhaps not even go s370 or sA (and no ISA either) as to save myself HSF and 5v troubles so I could use reasonably modern CPU HSFs and PSUs.

Wow, I must be the opposite of most people here. Give me pure MS-DOS command line, floppy/HDD sounds, thousands of jumpers and an AT case with all 8 ISA slots fully populated and I'm happy. On the other hand, while I like some late '90s / early '00s hardware the software side is unbearable. I despise Win9x, hated it back then and hate it now, just the thought of installing it after finishing a build completely kills any excitement I may have. Obviously there were better OS options rom that time, but it's not like I'm going to use it for productivity.

Post 2005 so is just a big NO for me, all the PC hardware from that time onwards is so standardized I get bored within minutes. I have my main computer to scratch any modern-ish hardware itch.