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Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 47980 of 52354, by chrismeyer6

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HanJammer wrote on 2023-02-10, 14:06:

This cool SCSI 4-device enclosure with SCSI ZIP100 and Fujitsu MO drive. Inside as a bonus I found Acard AEC-7720U SCSI to IDE bridge (http://www.acard.com/index.files/Page737.htm) which will surely come in handy (for now I have a good stash of SCSI HDDs and Optical Drives, but these are getting harder and harder to find in reasonable price so one day I may need such converter)!

That scsi enclosure is really cool.

Reply 47981 of 52354, by HanJammer

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Also bought this quad enclosure a few days earlier. Seller stated it doesn't come with harddrives. Yet to my surprise it came loaded with two IBMs...

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Reply 47982 of 52354, by BitWrangler

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-10, 12:32:
pete8475 wrote on 2023-02-10, 02:21:
BitWrangler wrote on 2023-01-29, 03:43:

Hope you got one of the gooderer ones, I just had them all pegged as level with the 8500, but they and theire 9xx0 kin are all over the place... https://www.anandtech.com/show/1463/6

The Radeon came in today, seems to work fine in one of my 98SE machines.

Everest home edition says it has 128bit ddr memory clocked at 200mhz, which seems to be the normal spec for that model.

Yeah the DX 8.1 Radeons are fairly predictable once you pick out the "most likely to be decent" models and realize that all the rest are likely to be bottom of the barrel cards that all perform similarly.

As this chart shows, the best models are the R200 based 8500, 8500LE and 9100. All the rest of the 9000 and 92xx DX8.1 cards have half the vertex shaders and TMUs, and most of those cut down models also have 64bit memory, though there are some 128bit variants out there. The 9200, as you have found, generally has 128bit memory. So, you've got the best configuration of the cut down cards. The 9100 is a nice one to keep an eye out for because it tends to blend in with the others while having much better performance. Very rarely, you may even find PCI models. The existence of a full R200 PCI variant is interesting because it would be comparable to nvidia releasing a renamed Geforce 3 Ti 200\500 PCI in 2003 as a budget card, which seems really weird.

Yup 128bit is the one to have, clocks can always be pumped a bit, but you're stuck with the bus width.

Closest thing really to a GF 3 PCI is a FX5200 PCI... it's a much maligned card, but knowing it's strengths and particular weaknesses can find a notch where it's useful. Most stuff it's always faster than 8500 and relatives, sometimes not by much. On "ATI favoring" DX 9 things, that's it's worst, and where all the FX cards drag down, and it looks bad against an MX460 ... though that would only be doing DX7 in the same game. However, on "neutrally programmed" or nvidia favoring DX9 it can actually beat the lower members of the 9600 line. DX8 stuff it's usually okay on floating between 8500 and 4200TI, on one or two titles it seems to pull on the 4200 a little. DX7 performance was not that good with early drivers, though I think things improved later, gets around 5000 in 3DMark2000 which is what you get with a Voodoo 5. Anyway, hardly anything where you could say "If there was a PCI GF3 it would have been faster". It launched into a time where games got rapidly more brutal on GPUs, even the top DX9 cards of ATI then had a really short life as adequate for AAA games, general recommendations for "XP gaming rig" tend to hit 3 and 4 generation newer cards and divide these back into "high end win98". So buying one at the time might have left you feeling rather cheated as it was slowest in everything getting released, but the dudes who got top of the line weren't making 60fps in much after a couple of months either. Going back in gaming from there though, it's that or the R200 PCI if you're stuck with PCI and next notch down is an MX PCI or a Radeon 7000 with the T&L crippled. And of course AGP can fly higher for the 2000-2003 notch.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 47983 of 52354, by chrismeyer6

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HanJammer wrote on 2023-02-10, 16:26:

Also bought this quad enclosure a few days earlier. Seller stated it doesn't come with harddrives. Yet to my surprise it came loaded with two IBMs...

Very nice dual 18 gig drives. Any fun plans for the enclosures?

Reply 47984 of 52354, by pete8475

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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-10, 16:28:

Yup 128bit is the one to have, clocks can always be pumped a bit, but you're stuck with the bus width.

Closest thing really to a GF 3 PCI is a FX5200 PCI... it's a much maligned card, but knowing it's strengths and particular weaknesses can find a notch where it's useful. Most stuff it's always faster than 8500 and relatives, sometimes not by much. On "ATI favoring" DX 9 things, that's it's worst, and where all the FX cards drag down, and it looks bad against an MX460 ... though that would only be doing DX7 in the same game. However, on "neutrally programmed" or nvidia favoring DX9 it can actually beat the lower members of the 9600 line. DX8 stuff it's usually okay on floating between 8500 and 4200TI, on one or two titles it seems to pull on the 4200 a little. DX7 performance was not that good with early drivers, though I think things improved later, gets around 5000 in 3DMark2000 which is what you get with a Voodoo 5. Anyway, hardly anything where you could say "If there was a PCI GF3 it would have been faster". It launched into a time where games got rapidly more brutal on GPUs, even the top DX9 cards of ATI then had a really short life as adequate for AAA games, general recommendations for "XP gaming rig" tend to hit 3 and 4 generation newer cards and divide these back into "high end win98". So buying one at the time might have left you feeling rather cheated as it was slowest in everything getting released, but the dudes who got top of the line weren't making 60fps in much after a couple of months either. Going back in gaming from there though, it's that or the R200 PCI if you're stuck with PCI and next notch down is an MX PCI or a Radeon 7000 with the T&L crippled. And of course AGP can fly higher for the 2000-2003 notch.

You know what's frustrating? I bought and returned a 9100 PCI because it refused to work in the only computer I owned at the time. It was a socket 370 ECS board and older PCI video cards worked but not that one. If only I'd kept that card, would be very useful now.

Reply 47985 of 52354, by BitWrangler

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Right, in particular the boards that didn't have a jumper to disable onboard VGA or at least let you force it in BIOS were a pain the butt, relying on their "autodetect" skillz to decide whether you had a graphics card or not was frustrating. Occasionally on a board with more than three PCI slots, moving the card to another slot would help depending on how many PCI-masters there were on the chipset, sometimes only 3 were brought out to the slots, sometimes 4. So getting it in a master slot got it working. Mostly this didn't matter because the troublesome boards were mATX with only 2 or 3 slots.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 47986 of 52354, by Ozzuneoj

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pete8475 wrote on 2023-02-10, 22:02:

You know what's frustrating? I bought and returned a 9100 PCI because it refused to work in the only computer I owned at the time. It was a socket 370 ECS board and older PCI video cards worked but not that one. If only I'd kept that card, would be very useful now.

Ah, yeah that's too bad. They do seem to be quite hard to find. It's kind of funny, but I picked one up with the intent of actually using it for general use non-retro PC about 10-11 years ago. I had an old 2.4Ghz Pentium IV Dell Optiplex (one of the "slim" desktop types with the removable base) that I'd had for years and wanted to use for some different things, but the Intel Extreme graphics was just too horrible and outdated to be useful. Without an AGP slot I was left with PCI cards only. I did a lot of reading and eventually settled on a 9100 PCI as a good choice for some reason. Thinking back on it now, I honestly don't know what that would have given me over a 6200 PCI, which was much more common. Maybe I was fed up with the bottom of the barrel 64bit cards and just wanted something with a flagship GPU (R200) and guaranteed 128bit memory... even if it was really really outdated. 🤣

I did end up finding one at the time, and it worked fine for what I wanted to do. Now that I'm aware of retro computing, I'm glad I hung onto it because I've never seen another one since then. I think it's a Sapphire Radeon 9100 64MB PCI with a black PCB and a noisy fan. 😊

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 47987 of 52354, by HanJammer

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chrismeyer6 wrote on 2023-02-10, 17:04:

Very nice dual 18 gig drives. Any fun plans for the enclosures?

Yes. I will use them with Amiga 2000 machines and myclassic Mac. Although pretty much all my PCs are equipped with SCSI controllers.

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Reply 47988 of 52354, by AppleSauce

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Got my hands on a Sony Trinitron G500 its an absolute unit and I nearly broke my back carrying it up the stairs to my house.

Worth it though , its a nice upgrade to my G420 and the screen size is pretty mint.

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Reply 47989 of 52354, by Meatball

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Unknown, untested 3dfx card for $34.95 shipped.... and... it works flawlessly.

Jackpot!

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Reply 47990 of 52354, by Shponglefan

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Meatball wrote on 2023-02-12, 00:04:

Unknown, untested 3dfx card for $34.95 shipped.... and... it works flawlessly.

Jackpot!

Wow, lucky!

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Reply 47992 of 52354, by kohellus@gmail.com

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Pawlicker wrote on 2023-01-16, 19:44:
There's a Discord server with most of the PC-98 users in the west in it (PC-9800 Series Central) and you're welcome to ask any n […]
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kohellus@gmail.com wrote on 2023-01-16, 16:18:
Pawlicker wrote on 2023-01-15, 21:09:

Nice machine, but you might want a nicer PC-9801 machine for those Window Accelerators (since they're for Windows and a few 256 color games). To use them you'll need to connect the onboard video to them and your monitor to the accelerator. You might also want to get a NEC PC-9801-26k board being that some games use the sound ROM. Also be sure to remove the NiCD battery if you haven't already. To write floppies for it, use SAMDisk and write HDM files.

Be very careful because you'll end up buying more 9801s guaranteed. Also get the rubber dome keyboards they're more likely to work from experience.

Thanks for the info. Iam complete newbie with these and just bought some random junk to see where i get. Probably will buy more, they are quite more fascinating than regular PC's, atleast this one is because of so much over engineering 😀

There's a Discord server with most of the PC-98 users in the west in it (PC-9800 Series Central) and you're welcome to ask any newbie questions there.

For a 9821 I'd recommend buying a CX/2/3/13 if you want gaming, they're compact and have FM. The Cs2/Ce2 is okay but the only CPU upgrades are "clip on" upgrades or else you're stuck with an anorexic 486sx. The 9801DA/FA aren't bad machines either, but the FA might need recapping. The 9821As/Ap/Ae definitely will, I have a 9821Ae project lying around I need to recap when I get time.

It's a good thing you bought a SCSI card however. You'll just need a weird SCSI cable, but you'll want one for every PC-98 you own without an HDD carrier/hardcard since PC-98s normally did not get provisions for installing internal HDDs without one until later on. The CX/2/3/13 doesn't need one and neither do the models of that era.

The other thing you can do once you get a HDD is load the YAHDI image on it. If you have a bigger HDD there's a trick to get bigger HDDs on said image as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz0aDJx8I78

Thanks alot, this is good info. I appreciate it 😀

Reply 47994 of 52354, by Ozzuneoj

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Meatball wrote on 2023-02-12, 13:14:
Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-12, 07:28:

What the balls. Was this on eBay?

Yes, it was listed on eBay. I never buy-it-now’d anything so fast, as you can likely imagine.

Holy cow. 🤯

I have to wonder when I see things like this. Do people really put in absolutely zero effort to research the items they list online? Seriously. They listed it as a 3dfx card and yet sold it for about a third of what the cheapest 3dfx cards will go for on ebay. They clearly didn't even bother to search for it.

Not that I mind... I think it's great to find these gems for low prices, it's just kind of baffling that people are even selling on ebay when they have no sense of how to determine the market value of what they're selling.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 47995 of 52354, by Unknown_K

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You see that a lot from female sellers who mostly list clothes and stuff but will list something vintage computer related they found in the house and have no clue what it is worth.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 47996 of 52354, by BitWrangler

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-12, 13:17:

it's just kind of baffling that people are even selling on ebay when they have no sense of how to determine the market value of what they're selling.

Kind of a funny line really when the way to get full market value is to use eBay how it was originally set up... as an auction site, list as auction.

Some ppl like "I want this gone NOW!" though.

Edit: Oh yah, congrats by the way. .. gotta be careful doing things like that, you get all the other leprechauns hitting you up for sexual favors thinking that's how you did it the first time 🤣

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 47997 of 52354, by Ozzuneoj

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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-12, 14:57:
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-12, 13:17:

it's just kind of baffling that people are even selling on ebay when they have no sense of how to determine the market value of what they're selling.

Kind of a funny line really when the way to get full market value is to use eBay how it was originally set up... as an auction site, list as auction.

Some ppl like "I want this gone NOW!" though.

Buy it Now tends to bring much more reliable prices for niche items like the retro PC hardware because there are only so many buyers shopping for these items at a given time. It just takes research and\or experience to know what the item is worth and why.

If you list an item as an auction and two or three people who would buy it forget to bid or just aren't looking for one that day\week, you could end up selling it for far less than it would have gone for if it had just been available to buy instantly or if it had ended an hour earlier, or maybe two days later. Listing it as an auction may get close to what some people would pay for it, and there's a chance it may go over what you would have listed it for Buy It Now, but it really depends on the buyers who are searching when your item is available, and the goal of the seller. Like you said, some just want things gone right NOW, and a quick search would get them a baseline price they could undercut to ensure a quick sale. Some want things gone right NOW and also don't have a few minutes to type a word into a search box and click "search", and that's how we end up with deals like that $35 Voodoo 5.

It is a bit baffling in this situation though because that seller also has whole desktop computers and other retro computing items for sale. Like... you're willing to pack and ship a stinking tower but you don't think to look up an item before you list it? 😮 It's not like it's an unobtainium part that has no recent listings to look at... it's one of the most frequently-overspent-on retro PC items.

Anyway... this is part of what makes collecting these things fun in my opinion. You just never know what you'll find.

Last edited by Ozzuneoj on 2023-02-12, 19:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 47998 of 52354, by Meatball

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-12, 18:48:
Buy it Now tends to bring much more reliable prices for niche items like the retro PC hardware because there are only so many bu […]
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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-12, 14:57:
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-12, 13:17:

it's just kind of baffling that people are even selling on ebay when they have no sense of how to determine the market value of what they're selling.

Kind of a funny line really when the way to get full market value is to use eBay how it was originally set up... as an auction site, list as auction.

Some ppl like "I want this gone NOW!" though.

Buy it Now tends to bring much more reliable prices for niche items like the retro PC hardware because there are only so many buyers shopping for these items at a given time. It just takes research and\or experience to know what the item is worth and why.

If you list an item as an auction and two or three people who would buy it forget to bid or just plain overlook it, you could end up selling it for far less than it would have gone for if it had just been available to buy instantly or if it had ended an hour earlier, or maybe two days later. Listing it as an auction may get close to what some people would pay for it, and there's a chance it may go over what you would have listed it for Buy It Now, but it really depends on the buyers who are searching when your item is available, and the goal of the seller. Like you said, some just want things gone right NOW, and a quick search would get them a baseline price they could undercut to ensure a quick sale. Some want things gone right NOW and also don't have a few minutes to type a word into a search box and click "search", and that's how we end up with deals like that $35 Voodoo 5.

It is a bit baffling in this situation though because that seller also has whole desktop computers and other retro computing items for sale. Like... you're willing to pack and ship a stinking tower but you don't think to look up an item before you list it? 😮 It's not like it's an unobtainium part that has no recent listings to look at... it's one of the most frequently-overspent-on retro PC items.

Anyway... this is part of what makes collecting these things fun in my opinion. You just never know what you'll find.

..."stinking tower"... 🤣!

Anyway, to the seller's credit, when I contacted them to request the card be shipped in an ESD bag to prevent further damage (if any), they responded positively and noted they should have "charged $134.95 for the card, but oh well." Now there's some integrity.

Even at $134.95 it still would have been underpriced, though, supporting your overall point.

And they didn't ship cheaply either; they used UPS!

Reply 47999 of 52354, by Ozzuneoj

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Meatball wrote on 2023-02-12, 18:55:
..."stinking tower"... lol! […]
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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-12, 18:48:
Buy it Now tends to bring much more reliable prices for niche items like the retro PC hardware because there are only so many bu […]
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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-02-12, 14:57:

Kind of a funny line really when the way to get full market value is to use eBay how it was originally set up... as an auction site, list as auction.

Some ppl like "I want this gone NOW!" though.

Buy it Now tends to bring much more reliable prices for niche items like the retro PC hardware because there are only so many buyers shopping for these items at a given time. It just takes research and\or experience to know what the item is worth and why.

If you list an item as an auction and two or three people who would buy it forget to bid or just plain overlook it, you could end up selling it for far less than it would have gone for if it had just been available to buy instantly or if it had ended an hour earlier, or maybe two days later. Listing it as an auction may get close to what some people would pay for it, and there's a chance it may go over what you would have listed it for Buy It Now, but it really depends on the buyers who are searching when your item is available, and the goal of the seller. Like you said, some just want things gone right NOW, and a quick search would get them a baseline price they could undercut to ensure a quick sale. Some want things gone right NOW and also don't have a few minutes to type a word into a search box and click "search", and that's how we end up with deals like that $35 Voodoo 5.

It is a bit baffling in this situation though because that seller also has whole desktop computers and other retro computing items for sale. Like... you're willing to pack and ship a stinking tower but you don't think to look up an item before you list it? 😮 It's not like it's an unobtainium part that has no recent listings to look at... it's one of the most frequently-overspent-on retro PC items.

Anyway... this is part of what makes collecting these things fun in my opinion. You just never know what you'll find.

..."stinking tower"... 🤣!

Anyway, to the seller's credit, when I contacted them to request the card be shipped in an ESD bag to prevent further damage (if any), they responded positively, and noted they should have "charged $134.95 for the card, but oh, well." Now there's some integrity.

Even at $134.95 it still would have been underpriced, though, supporting your overall point.

Not sure how they got that price, but yeah, that's good of them to continue with the sale even after realizing it was worth more. If they'd realized they could have blown the dust off and probably gotten $300 for it untested I don't know how they'd feel... 🤣

Honestly, if a seller suddenly realizes they listed it too low after I've sent payment, I'm not going to argue with them if they decide to cancel the order. I might let them know it feels bad and they should do their research BEFORE listing, but until the moment the carrier picks it up it is their item to do whatever they want with. I've gotten enough good deals over the years that I'm not going to make crazy demands about other people's stuff. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try to pick up a good deal when I see one though. 😀

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.