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Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 30920 of 52808, by FAMICOMASTER

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HanJammer wrote:

Permedia 2 and Vendex card were in a bunch of random junk I bought... not tested yet, I don't have high hopes for them as the rest of the junk were in pretty bad shape. Also this vendex card has some weird bodge on the backside and somebody tried to use it in 16-bit slot as you can see... I don't know much about it too (only that it's ram expansion/graphics card/multi I/O from Vendex Turbo 888 XT machine...

Looks like a generic MDA / Hercules card with 512K of RAM on it. Looks like it's got a light pen and two joystick ports, too. The jumpers up top are probably for the joysticks, if I had to guess. Is that an bus mouse port at the bottom?

Reply 30921 of 52808, by HanJammer

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FAMICOMASTER wrote:

Looks like a generic MDA / Hercules card with 512K of RAM on it. Looks like it's got a light pen and two joystick ports, too. The jumpers up top are probably for the joysticks, if I had to guess. Is that an bus mouse port at the bottom?

But it's not. The switch on the bracket states 'Mono' in one position and 'Color' in the other. The port on the bottom is for mouse. Yeah.

Google returned only this thread at vcfed: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?473 … Switch-settings (better pics of card like this are there).

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Reply 30922 of 52808, by mpe

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Got this HP network adapter.

I plan to upgrade my retro home network to 100VG-AnyLan standard which, for those who don't remember, was a failed 100MB LAN standard competing with what became the Fast Ethernet. As often, it was technically superior, but the market decided otherwise ...

Am I the only one running this? I suppose the rest of you use Token Ring, correct ? 😊

x5Rb2mc.jpg

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Reply 30923 of 52808, by HanJammer

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mpe wrote:

Got this HP network adapter.

I plan to upgrade my retro home network to 100VG-AnyLan standard which, for those who don't remember, was a failed 100MB LAN standard competing with what became the Fast Ethernet. As often, it was technically superior, but the market decided otherwise ...

Am I the only one running this? I suppose the rest of you use Token Ring, correct ? 😊

For the sake of compatibility with modern stuff I run Ethernet/Fast Ethernet cards in all my retro machines.

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

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Reply 30924 of 52808, by mpe

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HanJammer wrote:

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

True. I wish they made this in VL-Bus 😊

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Reply 30925 of 52808, by liqmat

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mpe wrote:
HanJammer wrote:

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

True. I wish they made this in VL-Bus 😊

Once upon a time...

Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today

Reply 30926 of 52808, by derSammler

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HanJammer wrote:

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

Why? ISA is able to transfer up to 133 Mbps. With DMA, this won't even hog the CPU much. Lots of 100 Mbps Ethernet cards were made for ISA.

Reply 30927 of 52808, by dionb

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mpe wrote:
Got this HP network adapter. […]
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Got this HP network adapter.

I plan to upgrade my retro home network to 100VG-AnyLan standard which, for those who don't remember, was a failed 100MB LAN standard competing with what became the Fast Ethernet. As often, it was technically superior, but the market decided otherwise ...

Am I the only one running this? I suppose the rest of you use Token Ring, correct ? 😊
[...]

I ran a 100VG net as a novelty back in the 00s, with a big 24-port switch and several clients. Also had token ring, with an 8-port MAU taking up more space than that 24-port 100VG thing. Unfortunately it was near bottom on my list of priorities when I moved from a house with cellar and shed to a small upstairs apartment in the big city, so offloaded it years ago.

Nice coincidence:
Picked up a big load of stuff (see above) recently. One of the cards is a 100VG PCI NIC. Brought back memories 😉

HanJammer wrote:

[...]

For the sake of compatibility with modern stuff I run Ethernet/Fast Ethernet cards in all my retro machines.

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

100VG is backwards compatible with 10MbE (using the second RJ45 connector - only HP could come up with something so redundant).

Obviously ISA isn't going to hit 100Mbps, but when you're running a shared medium like Ethernet with hubs (or 100VG to a certain degree), link speed matters. If you hook a 10MbE card up to an Ethernet hub, even a dual-speed 10/100 one, everything has to talk 10Mbps. Using a 100MbE card, the actual network talks 100Mbps, even if your ISA bus can't saturate it. Of course these days with switches replacing hubs, that's not so relevant anymore, but back in the day people with ISA cards generally couldn't afford switches, so it mattered a lot, hence 100MbE and 100VG ISA cards. It's the same way you benefit from high-spec WiFi even if your internet connection is nowhere near fast enough to saturate the theoretical max of your WiFi.

Even with a switch you can benefit from ISA 100MbE, as ISA can give about 64Mbps. Of course if you're sharing that with both NIC and HDD, you'll be lucky to get even a third of that, but that's still well over 10Mbps, so you're no worse off.

mpe wrote:

[...]

True. I wish they made this in VL-Bus 😊

Did HP do any VLB at all? Sort of remember it being an ISA->EISA->PCI shop. In any event VLB 100MbE Ethernet exists - and is pretty high on my wish-list 😉

Reply 30928 of 52808, by gdjacobs

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derSammler wrote:
HanJammer wrote:

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

Why? ISA is able to transfer up to 133 Mbps. With DMA, this won't even hog the CPU much. Lots of 100 Mbps Ethernet cards were made for ISA.

Nope. Are you thinking of PCI?
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?564 … d-transfer-rate

EISA was more able to push a full fast ethernet link due to 32 bit transfers and more efficient technique.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 30929 of 52808, by jaZz_KCS

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gdjacobs wrote:
Nope. Are you thinking of PCI? http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?564 … d-transfer-rate […]
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derSammler wrote:
HanJammer wrote:

Also 100Mbps LAN card supposed to work in the ISA slot is not really ideal idea to start with...

Why? ISA is able to transfer up to 133 Mbps. With DMA, this won't even hog the CPU much. Lots of 100 Mbps Ethernet cards were made for ISA.

Nope. Are you thinking of PCI?
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?564 … d-transfer-rate

EISA was more able to push a full fast ethernet link due to 32 bit transfers and more efficient technique.

Yep, 133MB/s is the PCI 32bit 33Mhz maximum possible bandwidth, seems he had a brain fart. Happens a lot this fall with me as well... 😁

Interestingly, some PCI cards are able to tell the PCI bus to ramp up to 66Mhz (still 32bit of course, without PCI-X), in order to ramp up the bandwidth to 266MB/s (example, late GPUs for PCI like the GT610)

Possible speeds:
133 MB/s (32-bit at 33 MHz – the standard configuration (PCI))
266 MB/s (32-bit at 66 MHz (PCI 2.1) or 64-bit at 33 MHz (PCI-X))
533 MB/s (64-bit at 66 MHz (PCI-X))

" PCI 2.1 1995 Incorporated clarifications and added 66 MHz chapter "
" Later revisions of PCI added new features and performance improvements, including a 66 MHz 3.3 V standard "
" Version 2.1 of the PCI standard introduced optional 66 MHz operation. " (Wikipedia)

Linux reports my GT610 PCI to be running at 66Mhz (in a server board PCI-X slot)

Reply 30930 of 52808, by HanJammer

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Guys.... you are confusing Mbps with MB/s. 32-bit 33Mhz PCI is 133MB/s (1064Mbps).

ISA is 133,28Mbps (16-bit * 8,33Mhz = 16-bit * 8,33M(times)ps = 133,28Mbps = 16,66MB/s) that's true (but now there is also a huge overhead because of how ISA bus is working - refer to vcfed thread mentioned above for explanation).

But remember you are dealing with a shared bus here. It's not PCI-Express.

Add graphics adapter, drive controllers, I/O controllers and other devices and you can forget getting even near this number (or even near of 100Mbps for that matter - also remember that network card's logic - including correction algoritms etc also add it's overhead - some cards are faster than other, but again even 100Mbps is theoretical peak speed for the network).

Of course there are advantages of such ISA card mentioned by dionb and I'm aware of them but then again - if you could afford 100Mbps network back in the day you probably also could afford switches instead of hubs (I know I could). Back in the 90s at school we were running network on 10Base-2 (10Mbps on BNC cable, BNC hubs). Later in the 90s when I started my career as a network engineer we already had 100Base-T infrastructure with switches all around and maybe few hubs we got rid of quickly (and it was underfunded public institution). So once again - this argument was theoretically valid (cost-wise), but still far from a real-life scenario (where performance was taken into account too)... so we used a mix of (cheaper !!!) 10Mbps ISA Ethernet cards and (more expensive) Fast Ethernet switches instead of hubs and we could run them along with Fast Ethernet PCI cards in more demanding applications (and also we had all advantages of running switches instead of hubs at the same time).

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Reply 30931 of 52808, by keropi

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a friend gifted me these 2 cards:

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iM0qkOul.jpg

I am not sure yet what kind of Mediavision Thunderboard revision is this, I have a boxed thunderboard but it lacks the UART MPU this revision added...
Need to search more on this since it's confusing 🤣

Last edited by keropi on 2019-10-29, 16:45. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 30933 of 52808, by liqmat

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Thought this was worth mentioning. Very good deal on NOS floppies.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?721 … isks-on-special

Nevermind... another Vogons member noted that the shipping is, well...

Last edited by liqmat on 2019-10-29, 17:02. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 30934 of 52808, by Grzyb

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Well, Fast Ethernet cards for ISA can't achieve 100 Mbps, but still, they are faster than 10 Mbps ones.
Also, the irony: there are Fast Ethernet cards for ISA, but probably not a single such card for VLB.
Nice example of how short-lived VLB was, isn't it?

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 30935 of 52808, by mpe

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Grzyb wrote:

Well, Fast Ethernet cards for ISA can't achieve 100 Mbps, but still, they are faster than 10 Mbps ones.
Also, the irony: there are Fast Ethernet cards for ISA, but probably not a single such card for VLB.
Nice example of how short-lived VLB was, isn't it?

download/file.php?id=54589&mode=view

But no 100VG-AnyLAN so I am not interested 😊 ...

Also my ISA runs at 12.5 MHz. Would that get it over the line?

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Reply 30936 of 52808, by Grzyb

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mpe wrote:

No.
It's based on Am79C965, so 10 Mbps - https://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/contrib/doc/sp … rk/am79c965.pdf
Once upon a time I tried to find a 100 Mbps card for VLB, and found nothing.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 30938 of 52808, by Grzyb

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liqmat wrote:

How pointless. I hadn't researched the card yet because of time. What a waste of VLB space IMO. Oh well... <shrug>

Indeed, VLB Ethernet isn't any better than ISA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCznB4KkMY

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 30939 of 52808, by cyclone3d

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Well.. if there were 100Mb NICs for VLB, it would have been better. Were there any?

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