Deksor wrote:

But what is its true value ? The one you see on ebay that nobody buys ? The one you have in your mind (in mine none of this is that valuable, thus I get my hardware for cheap) which will depend from person to person ? The value decided by the community ?

You know what I mean: buying for pennies something that can easily be sold for tens or hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds. Especially if your goal is to make profit out of it.

Sound Blaster 2.0 (CT1350B)

liqmat wrote:

mobilemail.jpg

pocketmail! I had one when I hiked the appalachian trail, nearly 20 years ago. hold it against the dialup phone and it would send your mail. Kinda like an off line bbs QWK mail packet.

they turned the service + servers off years ago 😜

OldCat wrote:

Deksor wrote:

But what is its true value ? The one you see on ebay that nobody buys ? The one you have in your mind (in mine none of this is that valuable, thus I get my hardware for cheap) which will depend from person to person ? The value decided by the community ?

You know what I mean: buying for pennies something that can easily be sold for tens or hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds. Especially if your goal is to make profit out of it.

Well that's what I do most of the time, but I don't sell much, I'd rather trade hardware/software. When I do sell, that's often a computer I've restored so I just charge the work I've put in it to restore it (Last thing I've sold was a IBM PC 300GL for 20€ that I bought for 5€, I doubt that's a steal for anyone).

OldCat wrote:

dionb wrote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I'm as much in favour of an amazing deal as anyone, but only if it's an honest deal where the seller knows what he's selling or makes absolutely clear he doesn't care.

QFT. Really, buying something off people who don't understand its true value is essentially taking advantage of them.

I like to subscribe to what The Game Chasers once said (along the lines of): I have no problem buying an item if it is listed at a price below market value. However, if a seller asks me what I think a fair price would be, it is dishonest to name a too low price.

In most amazing deals, the seller doesn't know the market value of what they're selling. The little money I "save" on the few good deals I make, I consider to be a reward for the effort spent in learing about the item, and - more so - the time spent looking for it. I don't think that makes me a bad person. 😀

OldCat wrote:

Deksor wrote:

But what is its true value ? The one you see on ebay that nobody buys ? The one you have in your mind (in mine none of this is that valuable, thus I get my hardware for cheap) which will depend from person to person ? The value decided by the community ?

You know what I mean: buying for pennies something that can easily be sold for tens or hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds. Especially if your goal is to make profit out of it.

You forget that you don't need old pc hardware to live. It's not a vital necessity. You are not entitled to any old pc hardware for pennies, apart from the stuff that you own. It's a free market. If prices become too high, then prices will eventually drop again. Risk of value depreciation is for the owners. Nothing wrong with making profit on this old stuff. Heck, most people who sell to me make a profit, because they have bought several years ago really cheap.

wirerogue wrote:

brand new chenbro workstation case for my pentium 4 + 6800gt build.

cool case! a lot of nice modern features in a retro looking case

The true value is only what you and the seller agree upon. No more and no less!

It's an equilibrium of course. The seller would love to sell it for $5 billion, and you would love to buy it for $0 --- you have to meet in the middle somewhere. The average of all of those free exchanges is the market price of the item.

It's not complicated. There's no such thing as inherent value. Only what buyers and sellers agree upon.

We live in a free world, and value for retro stuff is indeed elusive, but do I hope that if this type of 'warning' becomes a trend that an equal amount of energy will be spent on warning sellers that overprize items.
Just to keep the fairness in the hobby in some sort of balance...

All hobbies are priced by how much extra money people have. The people with deep pockets who spend cash they don't need are the ones who set the prices. The people with little cash either have to dig a rarity out of the trash or buy one from somebody who doesn't know its value.

When I got into this hobby almost 20 years ago most of what I collected was pretty much useless trash to 99.99% of the population. I remember when a post on the local freecycle looking for old computer equipment would get replies from people happy to get rid of that complete Commodore 128 system or old Apple 2 from their basements or garage plus more PC stuff then you could imagine. Ebay used to have garage sale prices for vintage gear and shipping used to be cheaper.

Flipping vintage gear for profit was around since the hobby started. A few people looked at the old junk and figured there will be a hobby around this stuff and started hoarding it. Some people in the tech field made a decent profit not selling the stuff but by being expert witnesses in prior art for patent cases showing old implementations. When the hobby started to come about some people started buying up all the rarities hoping to cash in someday (kind of like when the internet came to be people were buying up domain names). I remember when Apple I boards were maybe $1-2000 or so.

PARKE wrote:

We live in a free world, and value for retro stuff is indeed elusive, but do I hope that if this type of 'warning' becomes a trend that an equal amount of energy will be spent on warning sellers that overprize items.
Just to keep the fairness in the hobby in some sort of balance...

People give that kind of warning every day by not shelling out idiotic prices for stuff. It's the people who do pay excessive amounts that are the problem.

As a matter of fact I did buy this gentleman's Orchid Voodoo 1 for a very nice price in the end. I'm happy, he's happy, and I should be receiving it in the mail after the weekend.

stoof wrote:

OldCat wrote:

dionb wrote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I'm as much in favour of an amazing deal as anyone, but only if it's an honest deal where the seller knows what he's selling or makes absolutely clear he doesn't care.

QFT. Really, buying something off people who don't understand its true value is essentially taking advantage of them.

I like to subscribe to what The Game Chasers once said (along the lines of): I have no problem buying an item if it is listed at a price below market value. However, if a seller asks me what I think a fair price would be, it is dishonest to name a too low price.

In most amazing deals, the seller doesn't know the market value of what they're selling. The little money I "save" on the few good deals I make, I consider to be a reward for the effort spent in learing about the item, and - more so - the time spent looking for it. I don't think that makes me a bad person. 😀

If somebody asks me what I would pay for something I just bid what it is worth to ME. This is still a very niche hobby with no real set prices and condition and location makes a big different in being able to sell anything. If you do the research and hunt around enough you might find that Picasso at the local thrift store, but that rarely happens.

dionb wrote:

It's the people who do pay excessive amounts that are the problem.

I agree, but then if it's "immoral" to buy something for less than the market value how could prices go down at any point ? (even slightly)

Unknown_K wrote:

If somebody asks me what I would pay for something I just bid what it is worth to ME.

Absolutely, I would too, that's not what I meant.

I would tell the seller what I would pay, and then what I think a fair price would be. Then the seller can decide whether he wants to sell it to me, or try to make more money by selling it to someone else. 😀

Why should you do the market research for them? I assume the seller is offering the item for sale and not you walking up to them out of the blue.

My simple rule for buying and selling is that if you are posting something for sale you should have a price in mind and if I am wanting something not posted for sale I should make an offer.

Market value is whatever somebody paid for something exactly now. Tomorrow the market can be up 15% or down 90%. I prefer paying 2002 market prices when applicable. 😉

Unknown_K wrote:

Why should you do the market research for them? I assume the seller is offering the item for sale and not you walking up to them out of the blue.

My simple rule for buying and selling is that if you are posting something for sale you should have a price in mind and if I am wanting something not posted for sale I should make an offer.

Market value is whatever somebody paid for something exactly now. Tomorrow the market can be up 15% or down 90%. I prefer paying 2002 market prices when applicable. 😉

So much this.

And as for people selling stuff that they say "make me an offer", especially when they add in "serious", then that is a good sign that they will only sell if you offer them an outrageous price. If you are going to sell something, then have an actual asking price.

Deksor wrote:

dionb wrote:

It's the people who do pay excessive amounts that are the problem.

I agree, but then if it's "immoral" to buy something for less than the market value how could prices go down at any point ? (even slightly)

There's nothing immoral about buying at less than the going rate, only about taking advantage of ignorance and/or vulnerability.

I frequently sell stuff very cheap if I want to get rid of it, if I feel the buyer needs it more than I need their money, or if it is just something I want to give back to the community, and I just as frequently buy stuff in similar circumstances.

But aren't we going a little off-topic here?

So, here's a pic I hadn't shared yet:

Not actually retro, but very much lookalike - a set of Dongguan 'retro' XDA keycaps. The keyboard they are on is one I bought specifically to try MX Blue (clone) switches. Apart from the switches and caps it's very, very limited (2kro or so, with so much blocking you can't even do Ctrl-Shift-P with left CTRL and Shift). At least with these caps its looks respectable and sounds far, far better than with the cruddy ABS caps it was supplied with.

dionb wrote:

Deksor wrote:

dionb wrote:

It's the people who do pay excessive amounts that are the problem.

I agree, but then if it's "immoral" to buy something for less than the market value how could prices go down at any point ? (even slightly)

There's nothing immoral about buying at less than the going rate, only about taking advantage of ignorance and/or vulnerability.

Tough one, I cant see why anybody would care about random computer parts that's small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I feel like I pay good enough money for retro parts that I deserve to get a good deal every now and then, if someone doesn't do their research thats their problem, at the same time if they cancelled my order or wanted to negotiate a higher price afterwards I would understand and try to work with the seller.

Where you draw the line though....

I was listening to the radio station and this old lady goes on about how she sold her dead husbands "V8 Muscle car", "I listed it for $13,000 in the local paper and I sold it that day to a nice young gentlemen, he didn't try and talk me down".

I don't know if she was trolling the radio presenters but she goes on to say how it was an XB GT Falcon, even in poor condition would be worth at least $40,000 auzzie dollars, good ones go for around $100,000.

That Kid could've made 50 grand in a couple of days potentially.

An old person that has dementia selling a house too cheap? Stuff like that is wrong and you would hope its picked somewhere along the process, random computer parts that appeal to a small niche I couldn't care less.

IF I was to die I wouldn't know what would happen to my collection of stuff, if someone could be bothered it might be listed as a bulk lot but chances are most of it would be thrown out.

Some new additions:

Asus ISA-486S Rev. 1.4(Symphony Haydn 486 isa only board)

MSI MS-3121 Rev.2 Peak/DM 386 Board

Spea Mirage P64 (Trio64 VLB)

ELSA WINNER 1000 TWINBUS BOXED (S3 928 ISA/EISA 2MB VRAM)

Nice, the EISA/ISA Winner 1000 sure is a looker. I had the box incl. accessories for a long time but gave up on the card just recently and passed the box on to a fellow collector who had better use for it. Yours seem to be in pretty good condition too, a very uncommon sight with those old Elsa cardboxes.