The answer to your question is complicated. Lets get the easy stuff out of the way first:

No external midi sound module for the PC has a MPU-401 midi interface.

All Roland true MPU-401 midi interfaces, supporting both "Intelligent" and "Dumb/UART" modes are ISA bus-based only on the PC.

Only certain games require the presence of a true MPU-401 interface. Almost all games that support General Midi, Roland GS or Yamaha XG will work on a UART-only midi interface found on the Sound Blaster 16 and cards of a similar vintage.

A Roland LAPC-I contains an MPU-401 interface and the equilavent of the Roland CM-32 LA sound module on an ISA card. (CM-32 is 100% compatible with the MT-32.)

An Roland SCC-1 contains an MPU-401 interface and the equilavent of the Roland CM-300 GS sound module on an ISA card.

A Roland MPU-401AT contains an MPU-401 interface and a connector that supports waveblaster-compatible midi daughterboards.

On the above cards, the interface will allow the sending of the midi data to the onboard midi sound circuitry and to any external modules connected to the card at the same time.

The Sound Blaster Pro and older cards use a different midi interface incompatible with the MPU-401.

DOSBox can emulate a true MPU-401 interface well enough for any game that supports the Roland MT-32.

Neither Windows nor Windows games care a whit whether the a sound card supports intelligent MPU-401. Only DOS-only games may care.

The only games you need to worry about that may require a true Roland MPU-401 interface are games that support the MT-32 and do not support General Midi.

Some games, Sierra adventures for example, have a fan patch available to allow those games requiring a true Roland MPU-401 interface to work with a Sound Blaster midi interface.

Does that sufficently plug the gaps in your knowledge?

I like turtles.

You will need a midi interface of some kind, whether an ISA or PCI sound card or a USB Midi interface. DOSBox will use whatever you have as long as Windows is able to recognize it as a midi interface.

The custom builds of DOSBox do actually emulate the actual synthesis engine of an MT-32 or CM-32L, provided you have the binaries of hard-to-find Control and PCM ROMS for these devices. You will also need a reasonably powerful computer because the emulation is computationally intensive. Finally, the emulation is less-than-perfect.

You bought a Roland SC-88? That is a superb choice for General Midi game soundtracks. You can't go wrong with it, but you should make sure it is using the SC-55 set (look for the button.) It also has a decent MT-32 emulation mode. Also, with the proper cable, which came with the retail SC-88, you can use a serial port as a midi port. I do not know how well this works in games, however, because midi uses a 31,250 baud rate while the serial port uses 38,400 baud.

Great Hierophant wrote:

DOSBox can emulate a true MPU-401 interface well enough for any game that supports the Roland MT-32.

And properly channel the MT-32 MIDI commands to a real MT-32, which is connected through a USB MIDI interface, am I correct?

I like turtles.

but even running Doom without any synth emulation on a 2.4ghz is still somewhat choppy

Works smooth on a 1ghz with full opl/sb emulation though.

I like turtles.

Vista -- the ultimate slow down utility.

And properly channel the MT-32 MIDI commands to a real MT-32, which is connected through a USB MIDI interface, am I correct?

Yes, it works perfectly. I wish I could say the same, however, when the midi device is an FB-01, but I cannot.

Concerning the SC-88's MT-32 mode (it's actually a CM64 mode), that was the whole reason I went for it over the SC-55mkii; I assumed it was going to be an all-in-one fix for my DOS soundtracks. I was absolutely heartbroken to learn the CM64 mode won't emulate any of the custom sounds used in many MT-32 games. It's a shame, especially with the option to use the serial port for input, I figured I might be able to completely circumvent the whole MPU-401 thing. I suppose I could keep it and use the CM64 mode for games without any custom sounds (however many there are is beyond me), but I think I'd rather try to return/pawn it off to swap with the mkii, and try to get a real solution in the CM-32L, LAPC-I (assuming I have $200+ to blow if/when I ever find one), or CM-64.

You should have bought the SC-55mkII, its MT-32/CM-64 capabilities are identical to the SC-88. However, since you have it, you might as well keep it, because it is a much better synth device for GM than an SC-55mkII. Doom will sound as good as it can get with it.

The SC-55mkII and SC-88 both allow midi transmission through a custom serial cable in Win 3.1, Win 95 and maybe Win NT. Because the baud rate is faster through the serial port than a true midi port, I am not 100% sure it works perfectly, but it is one way around that "whole MPU-401 thing." It will not work in true DOS however.

Hey there, pduke001...

You actually have a very good setup for using the Roland SC-88 GS/GM MIDI with Dosbox v0.72 under Vista. 😉 I have a WinXP (SP2) system with a Roland SC-88VL and a Roland MT-32 rev00 to provide GS/GM MIDI, SC-55mkII MIDI and MT-32 MIDI hardware synth support for any DOS games under Dosbox or the NTVDM. Don't regret your Roland SC-88 purchase!

The best and cheapest way to connect your SC-88 to your Vista PC is as follows, if you have a real motherboard provided UART serial port on your Vista PC workstation. Don't use a USB provided serial port accessory as a serial port, if you must use USB, go ahead and get a Roland USB/MIDI connector with custom Roland USB drivers.

You will need an inexpensive DB-9(F) to mini-DIN-8 (M) plug to connect the DB-9 serial port to the mini-DIN-8 plug "Computer" bi-directional connection on the Roland SC-88. Many online establishments carry them, here is an example made by HOSA DBK-110 10ft cable from the proaudio web site. The use of this serial cable to connect your Vista PC to your Roland SC-88 has the lowest MIDI latency of all other non-ISA card solutions, which are not available in most all modern motherboards.

Roland does have a serial port driver for their serial port to Roland synth products, do NOT use it. Implementation for WinNT/2K/XP was poor and suffered MIDI dropped notes/overflow, it seemed to depend on hardware handshake with was not there. Instead, use the Yamaha CBX-MIDI v2.0 serial port driver for WinNT/2K/XP. This Yamaha driver handles the serial port 38,400 bps to current-loop MIDI 31,250bps throttling perfectly and just works. Yamaha had serial port connected synths also, this Yamaha serial port driver also works perfectly with Roland serial port products. Once you connect the Vista PC serial port to the Roland SC-88 with the HOSA DB-9(F) to SC-99 mini-DIN-88 (M) cable, you set the SC-88 four-position "Computer" slide switch to the "PC-2" selection from the four choices of "MIDI", "PC-2", "PC-1", "Mac". The Yamaha CBX driver control panel has three settings for the user to make: which "COM port" {COM1, COM2, COM3, COM4}, a checkbox for "Multi-port" (yes) and a checkbox for "Driver Enable" (yes).

You will need some RCA to mini-jack audio cables to get the audio output of your SC-88 to one of your PC mini-jack 1/8" audio inputs. Here is a HOSA CMR-210 Mini To RCA Stereo 1/8" jack 10ft cable.

The other advantage of connecting the Roland SC-88 with a serial port/cable is that now your Roland SC-88 allows you to chain other MIDI devices with standard DIN-5 MIDI patch cables, thereby using your Roland SC-88 as a DIN-5 MIDI to serial-port MIDI conversion box allowing a complete MIDI chain to be supported via the serial port connected SC-88.

I mentioned that I also have a Roland MT-32 (rev00) which I found on eBay for $20 shipped. The best model would be a MT-32 (rev02), however these are rarely seen on eBay. The advantage of the MT-32 (rev02) is that it does NOT need a 40-51ms delay after SYSEX transmissions as do the rev00 and rev01 models. The MT-32 (rev00) is more common and cheaper, so you might consider looking for one instead of an MT-32 (rev02) model or a CM-64 synth. I have a patch to the Dosbox v0.70 MIDI code discussed in this VOGONS thread with more information.

The MT-32 is connected to the SC-88VL with two 1ft. DIN-5 MIDI patch cables such as these HOSA MID-301 1ft MIDI Cable Standard which then allows the MT-32 (rev00) to communicate bi-directionally to the WinXP PC via the Roland SC-88VL and its serial cable. To get the audio output of the MT-32 which uses the older RCA 1/4" phono jacks for which you would need the HOSA CMP-159 Mini to 1/4" Phone Stereo 10ft cable to connect to another one of your PC mini-jack 1/8" audio inputs.

Lastly, the Vista operating system left out explicit support for MIDI mapping that was in all Microsoft operating system since Win 3.1, however someone has created a program to add back that control panel functionality in Vista. See this VOGONS thread for more information and the solution.

I hope this information helps you in some fashion with your new Roland SC-88. I think you will be quite pleased with the results. Let me know if I may answer any more of your questions or concerns...

dvwjr

Roland does have a serial port driver for their serial port to Roland synth products, do NOT use it. Implementation for WinNT/2K/XP was poor and suffered MIDI dropped notes/overflow, it seemed to depend on hardware handshake with was not there. Instead, use the Yamaha CBX-MIDI v2.0 serial port driver for WinNT/2K/XP. This Yamaha driver handles the serial port 38,400 bps to current-loop MIDI 31,250bps throttling perfectly and just works. Yamaha had serial port connected synths also, this Yamaha serial port driver also works perfectly with Roland serial port products. Once you connect the Vista PC serial port to the Roland SC-88 with the HOSA DB-9(F) to SC-99 mini-DIN-88 (M) cable, you set the SC-88 four-position "Computer" slide switch to the "PC-2" selection from the four choices of "MIDI", "PC-2", "PC-1", "Mac". The Yamaha CBX driver control panel has three settings for the user to make: which "COM port" {COM1, COM2, COM3, COM4}, a checkbox for "Multi-port" (yes) and a checkbox for "Driver Enable" (yes).

A great tip about the proper Serial driver dvwjr., I might use it myself since I have at least two devices with such a port.

Very interesting thread !!

On my old playing machine I had used a Terratec ISA Card with a midi-daughterboard (Yamaha) plus an actual SCC-1 and after not using any of the equipment for years, I want to get a new setup for my current system.

I don't have a serial port anymore, but want to get a SC-55 and a MT-32 as external units for my current machine. Does anyone know if there are differences between the available MIDI/USB solutions, e.g. the Roland one vs. the M-Audio adapter ?

How would I chain the hardware to the PC ? USB/MIDI Adapter to the PC, SC-55 to the Adapter and MT-32 to the SC-55, right ? To get the analog sound output mixed in the the system's output I would go the other way around (MT-32 -> SC-55 -> PC stereo input), right ?

And a last question: for simple gaming purposes the combo of SC-55 (for GM/GS) plus a MT-32 should be enough or is there any reason to go for a SC-88 instead (which is much more expensive).

Thanks in advance for any input !

I'm afraid that I've finally lost my old ISA interface board for my CM32L. I have everything else including the MPU-401 interface and all the cables. I'm petrified that I won't be able to get it working again without that card.

Of course I love DOS Box but I told myself it's a dream to try and get this working over XP. I've read the entire post and I'm still not sure what I need. It looks like any USB to MIDI interface helps me with DOS Box MT32 emulation. If I have the hardware is it as simple as simply purchasing a USB to MIDI adapter and plugging my MPU-401 into it instead of into the ISA interface card? From a hardware standpoint anyway?

My wife would kill me if I dropped 50-100 bucks and didn't at least get something working.

Thanks in advance!

Grant

GrantJohnson73 wrote:

Of course I love DOS Box but I told myself it's a dream to try and get this working over XP. I've read the entire post and I'm still not sure what I need. It looks like any USB to MIDI interface helps me with DOS Box MT32 emulation. If I have the hardware is it as simple as simply purchasing a USB to MIDI adapter and plugging my MPU-401 into it instead of into the ISA interface card? From a hardware standpoint anyway?

You need this Roland USB to MIDI device, the UM-1EX. This will allow you to easily connect your CM-32L to your WinXP (SP2) PC workstation. Will work with WinXP (SP2) and Dosbox v0.72 on WinXP. Be sure the use the Roland specific drivers, not the standard Win XP (SP2) standard drivers. Both work, but the Roland USB/MIDI drivers are better (use the 'Advanced' switch). The Roland UM-1EX owner's manual is available as a downloadable PDF, so read before you purchase.

Shop around, it is in your price range. Buy it. Be happy. 😁

dvwjr

I hate to clog the message board but I have to say thank you so much! I don't want to appear ungrateful so thanks again.

I like turtles.

dvwjr wrote:

The other advantage of connecting the Roland SC-88 with a serial port/cable is that now your Roland SC-88 allows you to chain other MIDI devices with standard DIN-5 MIDI patch cables, thereby using your Roland SC-88 as a DIN-5 MIDI to serial-port MIDI conversion box allowing a complete MIDI chain to be supported via the serial port connected SC-88.

...which then allows the MT-32 (rev00) to communicate bi-directionally to the WinXP PC via the Roland SC-88VL and its serial cable.
dvwjr

Does someone know whether the MT-32 actually NEEDS to send messages up the midi signal chain (i.e., back to the PC)? And if so, can the messages been sent through a midi merge device (given the flow is in reverse to what the merge device is normally used to)?

I ask this since I wish to connect my PC to my midi devices via serial cable (or usb) under windows, AND via MPU under DOS, without having to plug and unplug cables. Hence the use of a 2 into 1 midi merge device.

I guess the simpler (and cheaper) way would be to simply construct a switch to toggle between the two outputs from the PC.