VOGONS


486 mobo + 586 chip

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Reply 120 of 148, by Tetrium

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sebaz_ri wrote:
retro games 100 wrote:

I really like that case. I wonder if they are still available? Does it have a model number? Thanks.

i have the same case!!! (on a pentium) hehehehehe 😁

I probably don't, but I do have 1 or 2 AT cases along with their ATX brothers 😜

Still seems easier to just get the AT2ATX backplate these days and indeed, thrift stores and local Ebays seem the best way to find an AT case (even though it still won't be easy).

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Reply 121 of 148, by feipoa

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The main issue with getting AT cases on eBay is that you need to buy the whole computer that goes along with it. Generally, $50 for the PC, plus $50 for shipping. It just isn't worth it.

An ATX case (with conversion) for a 486 just doesn't have quite the same retro appeal, although it is better than no case at all. The case in the photo was semi-common in 1997 for either a late 486 or socket 7 Pentium.

I'd sure like to find that dumpster that sebaz_ri is getting all his goods from!

Btw, I've added an external 3.5" IDE CF card reader to the covered slot below the floppy drive.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 122 of 148, by sebaz_ri

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@tetrium
the best part of all is that case (with mobo) was for free 😁
and the M919 also was free for me 😀 😀 😀
and the 3 AT cases found by me(for now)are with mobo and all
and M919 came with DIN keyboard and Genius EasyMouse hehehe 😁
and these cases are in very good conditions
@feipoa
i think you dont found that dumpster because i am on Argentina 😒
also i found that cases on the sidewalk, not in a dumpster

so i have the "full pack" for free 😁 😁 😁

Reply 123 of 148, by Tetrium

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sebaz_ri wrote:
@tetrium the best part of all is that case (with mobo) was for free :happyhappy: and the M919 also was free for me :happy: :h […]
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@tetrium
the best part of all is that case (with mobo) was for free 😁
and the M919 also was free for me 😀 😀 😀
and the 3 AT cases found by me(for now)are with mobo and all
and M919 came with DIN keyboard and Genius EasyMouse hehehe 😁
and these cases are in very good conditions
@feipoa
i think you dont found that dumpster because i am on Argentina 😒
also i found that cases on the sidewalk, not in a dumpster

so i have the "full pack" for free 😁 😁 😁

Wow, sounds a lot like the situation in The Netherlands 9 years ago! 😁

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Reply 124 of 148, by sliderider

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feipoa wrote:
The main issue with getting AT cases on eBay is that you need to buy the whole computer that goes along with it. Generally, $50 […]
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The main issue with getting AT cases on eBay is that you need to buy the whole computer that goes along with it. Generally, $50 for the PC, plus $50 for shipping. It just isn't worth it.

An ATX case (with conversion) for a 486 just doesn't have quite the same retro appeal, although it is better than no case at all. The case in the photo was semi-common in 1997 for either a late 486 or socket 7 Pentium.

I'd sure like to find that dumpster that sebaz_ri is getting all his goods from!

Btw, I've added an external 3.5" IDE CF card reader to the covered slot below the floppy drive.

That price for a whole 386 or 486 computer is more than worth that much. Have you seen the prices for parts lately?

Reply 126 of 148, by Tetrium

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Who knows?...

Maybe they will suddenly turn up in afrika where many were originally send to be destroyed. Maybe many parts/full systems were "laundered" by local workers there and given to relatives or the local black market and will turn up in 5 years when newer, faster and more modern parts start flooding the local markets there?
Maybe vintage computer hunters will even go there to hunt parts for themselves, or set up organizations and contacts to find vintage equipment for big $$$?

Maybe some wacko manufacturer will start producing Socket 3 boards with old stock 486 chipsets? (hey, a man can dream, right? 😁).

At any rate, the vintage computer economy will solidify and more people will start to get the hang on what drives the prices of second hand hardware and why. It used to be obvious to a few, but more will learn, as the mechanism behind it is rather easy to understand, once you see it.
And it will become more complicated, not only due to the continuous influx of "newer" retro hardware.

When I started collecting, Pentium 4 and Athlon XP were new, second hand ATX was still new and virtually non-existant. Second hand computers were almost exclusively AT or even XT and IBM and all those proprietary systems. Pentium 3 and 2 were old, but still useful and thus very hard to find second hand and if you found it, it would still be costly, just like a second hand Core2Duo is still costly these days, even though it's already like 4 or 5 years old?

Pentium 1 was old, but still had some value. 486 and before were considered too old to be of practical use (which was mostly Internet, burning CD's, playing DVD's and the then new Windows XP).

Nowdays Pentium 4 and Athlon XP's are amongst the cheapest hardware around. It should be fairly easy to find "a" Pentium 4 or Socket A board for like €10 or even less and the CPU's are flooding the market at this time.
Pentium 3 is dirt cheap right now, as is Pentium 2, Super 7 and Socket 7 (bar a couple particular ones of course).
AT is now hard to find and ATX is all over the place!
Socket 7 and 5 are considered retro, but don't seem to be particularly popular, except for Super 7 of course.
It's 486 that's gotten the name of being considered the most useful "ultimate retro" rig, people see it as the start of the computer dark ages or something, with 386 being somewhere further back out of the light and 286 and before being kinda prehistoric or something.
486 hits a sweetspot somehow. Maybe because it's relatively easy to find parts (even though the motherboards and AT cases are usually expensive, but most other items are not) but still old enough to be a challenge to get running. It's sure a significant step-up from Pentium 1 when it comes to building a successful rig around one. 386 is a lot more simpler as it has less options, or at least lesser known options.

Dunno how things will be in 5 years time, but chances are the best AGP cards will become a bit more expensive, the first PCI-E cards will be dirt cheap and the oldest PCI-E motherboards will also become more expensive. s754 and s939 might become dirt cheap while s775 CPU's might become dirt cheap, but s775 motherboards may not go as low as s754 and s939.

I somehow doubt the best IDE drives will become expensive, by then SSD's will become more useful and adapters I guess will be available on Ebay (or it's successor) for dirt cheap.
Tualatin boards may go up in price, it seems logical to me. I don't know about Super 7, if it rises, it may go up less then Tualatin boards, but no promises there! 😜
I'd say s423 boards won't ever become dirt cheap, as few standard ATX ones were ever made.
I'd say post s775 Intel boards will remain somewhat expensive, as the quick socket hopping Intel's doing causes few boards of any particular generation to be in existence, while not switching ownership as quickly due to the relative powerful platforms they represent.
Earlier ATX PSU's may become a bit more expensive as newer PSU standards will gradually replace existing standards, but also depends on the amount of units leaving the active computing world (=how many units will still be around in functioning condition).
I'd say 5.25in floppy drives might go up a LOT in value, perhaps even make them worth repairing again. 3.5in floppies won't become expensive, too many around, except for the very early models which often come with for instance dip-switches for setting A: and B: (<--FUN! 😁). Dunno about ZIP and LS-120 though. USB ZIP might go up, but mostly because USB is the most convenient one to use and they actually look very cool 😉
Old optical drives, I don't see them doing much when it comes to their value, especially if BluRay remains backward compatible with CDROM. IDE DVD's might get a bit more wanted, but again, there'll always be adapters.
No idea about 2.88 floppy, the drives are already hard to find. Will depend on how easy it will remain to find functioning disks. Many of those disks are already 20 years old by now! (still worked last year though 😀 )

Things will also depends a bit on what Microsoft will be doing of course.

And in 10 years time? I'd say in 10 years look out for the fastest boards that support legacy interfaces like IDE and floppy, especially if they support the fastest more modern features (CPU, SATA, etc etc).

Anyway, enough of my rambling, time for me to hit the sack before I see another sunrise coming 😜

Edit:And as long as AT Pentium boards remain unpopular, ISA sound cards will remain cheap 😁
Same with ISA graphics cards, they shouldn't go up much, if at all, because people will prefer VLB and PCI.
And thinking about s754 and s939, at some point they might go up in value again as they were made while AGP was being replaced by PCI-E. Thus they are amongst the fastest AGP boards and also the oldest PCI-E boards

Well, my crystal ball indicates it's battery is running low, so I'll quit with the future telling for now, L O L!!

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Reply 128 of 148, by feipoa

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Those are some very attractive cases! You can change the first case to display numbers instead of HI/LO (via jumpers on the LED PCB). I particularly like the middle case. I had one similar to it once, but it was fated for the trash when I moved long ago.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 129 of 148, by Tetrium

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sebaz_ri wrote:

the case 1[/img]

Niiiice!!! 😁

It looks like it could use a good clean though 😉

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Reply 130 of 148, by retro games 100

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h-a-l-9000 wrote:

The placement of the gameport pins is evil on this board - got shutdowns due to short cirquit a few times by plugging in ISA cards that had metal parts there before realizing. Also the BIOS chip gets in the way with some cards.

I've just smoked an 8-bit SoundBlaster, using this mobo. It was touching the evil gameport pins. If I turn over the SB card, and look at the ISA connector area, the first gold finger is melted. Do you know what this first gold finger does? If I look closely at this area, there is no "data line" going from the gold finger, to any part of the sound card. Is this first gold finger's purpose to earth the card?

I haven't retested the card. I don't know if it is broken, or not. Is it dangerous to retest it? Thanks for any info.

melt.jpg

Reply 132 of 148, by retro games 100

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h-a-l-9000 wrote:

Its a ground pin. The ISA bus has two more of these, and if they aren't burnt it can still work. The mainboard is still ok?

Thanks a lot for the info. I can only see one finger on the SB card that is burnt. I cannot see any damage to the ISA slot on the mobo. I used a sowing needle, and scraped out a tiny shard of golden metal from inside the mobo's ISA slot. I then put a PAS16 sound card in to that ISA slot, and it worked fine. No problems. I will now retest the "melted" SB card, but I will try it in another mobo.

When you say that "The ISA bus has two more of these [ground pins]", are you implying that every ISA card has 3 ground pins (those gold fingers?), or are you implying that every ISA slot on a mainboard has 3 ground pins?

Reply 134 of 148, by retro games 100

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I appreciate that this thought sounds unlikely, but I wonder if I have damaged the PSU? I removed the "melted" Sound Blaster 2 card (PCB model CT1350B), and tried another identical and working SB2 card. When I test it, I can only hear very bad interference noise. Creative's Diagnose.exe DOS utility can "see" the card OK, but I cannot get the card to make any normal sounds.

SB2 cards require -5V on the PSU. I wonder if I have damaged the -5V rail? Could that be possible? ATM, I am hunting about for another PSU to test...

Reply 135 of 148, by sliderider

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"Maybe they will suddenly turn up in afrika where many were originally send to be destroyed. Maybe many parts/full systems were "laundered" by local workers there and given to relatives or the local black market and will turn up in 5 years when newer, faster and more modern parts start flooding the local markets there?
Maybe vintage computer hunters will even go there to hunt parts for themselves, or set up organizations and contacts to find vintage equipment for big $$$? "

Nah, that won't happen. I've seen how they recycle computers and electronics in third world countries. First they pop out anything that is socketed. Then they use a blowtorch on the backside of the board to soften the solder and they pull off else everything with a pair of pliers. Then the bare board goes into an aqua regia bath to remove the precious metals. Plastics are collected and sorted by color and put into a pelletizing machine. The pellets are bagged and shipped to a factory where they are remolded into new plastic items. The electronic parts usually go on ebay where we buy them. Anything that can't be sold gets burned or dumped in the nearest convenient location. All this is done with no regard for health or safety of the workers or the damage to the environment.

Reply 137 of 148, by retro games 100

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h-a-l-9000 wrote:

> ... but I wonder if I have damaged the PSU?

... use the multimeter, Luke!

I'm really going to have to learn how to use one of these things! BTW, I found an identical working PSU. I retested a working SB2 (not the melted one), and it works fine. The only thing I have done is swap out the original PSU, that I used when I melted the SB2. So, it does look like I have damaged the -5V rail on the first PSU.

I will now retest the melted SB2, with the working back up PSU...

Reply 138 of 148, by retro games 100

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The melted SB2 works fine, when I use a back up replacement PSU. So, it looks like the only damage that I have done is to "knock out" the -5V rail on the original PSU that I was using. All other components have survived, which are: the melted SB2 works OK, the "evil gameport pins" mainboard still works including its ISA slot that once held the melted SB2.

When I use the melted SB2, is it safe to touch the sound card's metal backplate?

BTW/PS - I am using an ATX PSU, with an ATX-to-AT converter gadget.

Reply 139 of 148, by retro games 100

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Also, I've noticed something odd about this mainboard. I cannot use a sound card that uses a DMA value of 1. For example, a SB2 will not work in this mainboard, and also a MediaVision Thunderboard will not work. Both of these cards will only allow you to use a DMA value of 1, and for some reason, I cannot get the mainboard to free up the DMA resource of 1. I have tried setting the DMA jumpers on the mainboard to both allowed settings, but this does not help the situation.

I can use other sound cards in this mainboard, for example a PAS16. When I set up the PAS16 card, I am allowed to select a DMA value other than 1, for example DMA=3. (The sound card works OK.)