1.- Yes, but with those specs you may want to use Dosbox. Anyway, I remember that you need to "hack" some files to get a usable DOS (i.e.: starting HIMEM and those things).

2.- Probably yes. If you install Win98 first, XP will try to overwrite Win98 partition. When I've done a multiboot installation, I used a Debian boot disk:
- Create a partition for Win98.
- Install Win98.
- Use Debian boot disk and change type of partition to ext2fs or something like that with fdisk (remember to note what type had previously).
- Install WinXP. Win XP won't find Win98, so it won't overwrite the partition.
- Use Debian boot to change the type of the first partition. Place the "boot" mark in the WinXP partition (it's important).
- Install a boot manager of your choice.

3.- I guess so, but I don't know how compatible is with VESA modes.

Perhaps it's better to install 98 with only 512MB RAM installed. 9x has problems (or at least potential ones) with large amounts of memory.

You can find lots of info about 9x on 'modern' hardware on www.msfn.org (one of my fav websites 😉 )

The last ATi cards with Win98/Me support (catalyst 6.2) are Rageon X8xx. Hd4850 do not have win98/me drivers. You need the older videocard for this, (GF 6800 is recommended).

Install win98/me with only 512 Mb RAM inserted, then run msconfig.exe and check "use only 512 Mb RAM" checkbox. Then install full RAM. The trouble is - Win98/ME memory manager is broken and don't work correctly with 512+ RAM.

Gamecollector wrote:

The last ATi cards with Win98/Me support (catalyst 6.2) are Rageon X8xx. Hd4850 do not have win98/me drivers.

My guess is that Myloch knows this. I think he is hoping that the HD4650 will run games in DOS 7 in VGA and possibly SVGA mode, although Zup points out that VESA mode compatibility could be an issue...

If you overcome the video card issue, then it's not big deal to have win98 and xp. I've done this recently on my P3 pc. You need to use 2 disks or one disk with 2 partitions. The first disk/partition must be fat32 and there you install first windows 98. Then you install xp, and make sure you change the install folder to the second drive/partition. And when you're finished you will be able to choose wich of the two os you want to start.

Well, I have some unused old pci cards available like a s3 virge dx, a radeon x1900gt, a voodoo1 and a voodoo2.

Using the s3 virge card instead of the radeon, I would solve many problems with dos/windows 98 retro-compatibility but I would lose all the 3d horsepower for windows xp games. Mounting of the hd4650 and s3 virge together probably is a bad thing, right?

@Zup
Yes, you're right and I already use dosbox, great piece of software 😉 But I have some pretty picky games and some late dos era games that don't work/are pretty slow in dosbox, so a real dos mode can do the trick in these rare cases

Myloch wrote:

Mounting of the hd4650 and s3 virge together probably is a bad thing, right?

This should be OK. In the BIOS, you can choose between PCI and AGP for your preferred boot up video card. Inside Windows, both video card drivers can be installed together, and remain seperate from each other within "hardware profiles".

You might experience some minor problems however. "Helper software" that exists for one video card will probably always be executed on boot up, regardless of which hardware profile you select at the hardware profile boot up options screen. However, this problem is unlikely to cause you any serious problems.

Converting your PC to run Windows 9x is easy once you get past the 2 barriers you have there :

1. RAM
2. HD4650

Fortunately both are not big issues to overcome.

1. For more than 512MB problem in a Win9x environment, do use the MaxFileCache setting in the System.ini file to reduce the maximum amount of memory that Vcache uses to 512 megabytes (524,288 KB) or less.

That is, under [Vcache], section in System.ini of the Win98, add the line

1[Vcache]
2MaxFileCache=524288

2. HD4650 - In pure DOS, there's no problem to use it directly. But as others noted, there are no Win9x drivers for it. But the S3 Virge card you have there will be perfect for a DOS machine. And Windows 9x will recognoze it right away! If you're not going to use the Windows 98, you don't need to bother about the HD4650. (You can use the default 640x480x16 color mode, and proceed with your dos gaming with a "fast" graphic card! 😁)

Malik wrote:

Converting your PC to run Windows 9x is easy once you get past the 2 barriers you have there : […]
Show full quote

Converting your PC to run Windows 9x is easy once you get past the 2 barriers you have there :

1. RAM
2. HD4650

Fortunately both are not big issues to overcome.

1. For more than 512MB problem in a Win9x environment, do use the MaxFileCache setting in the System.ini file to reduce the maximum amount of memory that Vcache uses to 512 megabytes (524,288 KB) or less.

That is, under [Vcache], section in System.ini of the Win98, add the line

Copy code to clipboard

1[Vcache]
2MaxFileCache=524288

2. HD4650 - In pure DOS, there's no problem to use it directly. But as others noted, there are no Win9x drivers for it. But the S3 Virge card you have there will be perfect for a DOS machine. And Windows 9x will recognoze it right away! If you're not going to use the Windows 98, you don't need to bother about the HD4650. (You can use the default 640x480x16 color mode, and proceed with your dos gaming with a "fast" graphic card! 😁)

Why not use Win98 unofficial service pack so he can use gig's of RAM?

If I put Radeon and s3 card. I need to unplug/plug monitor everytime I use win98 or xp right?

Myloch wrote:

If I put Radeon and s3 card. I need to unplug/plug monitor everytime I use win98 or xp right?

Yes. Or, I think you could something called a KVM "switch box".

Myloch wrote:

If I put Radeon and s3 card. I need to unplug/plug monitor everytime I use win98 or xp right?

You can get a KVM switch. Most are cheap, and automatic - you don't need to switch manually. It will detect which graphics card is active and will switch to that.

Downside to this is that it will add even more cable substance and can get messy if not tied neatly.

Of course, you can always switch manually the monitor cable at the back of your pc, changing between the two cards. If you think you'll be switching between the two cards very frequently, the KVM switch is a better solution.

Or, to prevent wear at the VGA port on the cards, you can get 2 separate short male-to-female VGA/SVGA cables and leave each attached to the port of the graphics card. You can then attach the monitor's cable to the loose end of either cable of the VGA cards.

Amigaz wrote:

Why not use Win98 unofficial service pack so he can use gig's of RAM?

On some systems, Win9x systems won't boot into the GUI when there are more than 512MB installed. Sometimes, the system will halt and the reboot message will appear. I have experienced this in a couple of systems with 640MB and 768MB.

It's best to edit the system.ini file immediately after the Win9x's first installation's restart routine (go to command prompt and edit the file manually).

Of course, if this problem is not encountered, one may install the Unofficial service pack when windows is running.

I forgot to say the main board is a intel d915gev. it got integrated 3d and audio card (realtek hd audio). I would add an old sound blaster pci 128 of mine (already tested and working with it's dos drivers), because I doubt about dos support of the integrated audio card.
At this point, I wonder if the onboard intel 3d card can be enough for windows 98 direct3d (I would use onboard graphic for dos (vga-svga-vesa...) and windows 98 (2d and direct3d), I would use radeon HD4650 for windows xp).

Sound Blaster's PCI cards' Dos Drivers require EMS memory to function. Which will put the machine in real mode. If these are not issues (some games may not like EMS while newer games may run better with protected-mode(non-ems)), then you may go ahead with it.

Other alternatives incude a Vortex 2 card - does not require EMS, ALS-4000, and some others.

yep, unluckily the sbpci128 can lead to some problems but I mentioned it because I have the card in my house and I don't have enough time and motivation now to search for better card. 😉

what's better?
dos install -> windows 98 install and finally xp (xp on another partition)
or
windows98 install -> xp install (xp on another partition)

Gamecollector wrote:

The last ATi cards with Win98/Me support (catalyst 6.2) are Rageon X8xx. Hd4850 do not have win98/me drivers. You need the older videocard for this, (GF 6800 is recommended).

Install win98/me with only 512 Mb RAM inserted, then run msconfig.exe and check "use only 512 Mb RAM" checkbox. Then install full RAM. The trouble is - Win98/ME memory manager is broken and don't work correctly with 512+ RAM.

Are you sure about that? I just checked AMD driver downloads and the earliest Windows version for X800 cards is Win 2k. Radeon 9800 has 98/ME drivers.

Radeon 9800 is the last Radeon series with win98 drivers

sliderider wrote:

Gamecollector wrote:

The last ATi cards with Win98/Me support (catalyst 6.2) are Rageon X8xx. Hd4850 do not have win98/me drivers. You need the older videocard for this, (GF 6800 is recommended).

Install win98/me with only 512 Mb RAM inserted, then run msconfig.exe and check "use only 512 Mb RAM" checkbox. Then install full RAM. The trouble is - Win98/ME memory manager is broken and don't work correctly with 512+ RAM.

Are you sure about that? I just checked AMD driver downloads and the earliest Windows version for X800 cards is Win 2k. Radeon 9800 has 98/ME drivers.

Yes, the last Win9x based driver has a beta-level support for X800 series. I have tried it with my ex-X800 and played System Shock 2. 😀

In that sense, the pci-express version of X800 may be the only fastest PCI-E graphics card that can function fully in Win98SE/ME environment.

You can't find Xseries drivers (X300-X800) for Win98SE/ME stated explicitly at AMD website.

The last available driver for Win98SE/ME is https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.a … dd_cp_30314.exe

When you expand it using 7-zip, you can go to the subfolder and use a text editor to see the contents of the .inf files.

If you look at the inf. file, you can see the supported gpus :

C5_30314.INF wrote:

;----------------------------------------------- ; ATI Display Information file : atii9xag.inf ; Installation INF for the ATI di […]
Show full quote

;-----------------------------------------------
; ATI Display Information file : atii9xag.inf
; Installation INF for the ATI display driver.
; Copyright(C) 1985-2004 ATI Technologies Inc.
; Windows 9x
; Base INF Last Updated on 2005/07/29

[version]
Class=DISPLAY
signature="$Windows 95$"
Provider=%Mfg%
DriverVer=01/24/2006, 4.15.1.9165

[SourceDisksNames]
1="ATI Installation CD ROM",,1,.\B_30408

[SourceDisksFiles]
ati2cqag.dll=1
ati2drag.drv=1
ati2edxx.dll=1
ati2evxx.dll=1
ati2evxx.exe=1
ati2i9ag.dll=1
ati2vxag.vxd=1
ati3d1ag.dll=1
ati3d2ag.dll=1
ati3duag.dll=1
atiddc.dll=1
atiicdxx.dll=1
atiicdxx.sys=1
atiicdxx.vxd=1
atiiiexx.dll=1
atiiisxx.exe=1
atio9xxx.dll=1
atipdlxx.dll=1
atitvo32.dll=1
ativ16xx.dll=1
ativifxx.dll=1
ativvaxx.dll=1
ativvxxx.vxd=1
atricdxx.enu=1
oemdspif.dll=1

[Manufacturer]
"%Mfg%"=Mfg
;-----------------
; Driver sections

[Mfg]
"ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 7500" = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157&SUBSYS_0F2A1002
"ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 8500" = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C&SUBSYS_0F2A1002
"ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 8500DV" = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4242&SUBSYS_02AA1002
"ALL-IN-WONDER VE PCI" = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157&SUBSYS_0F2B1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_000A1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_013A1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_00381002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_01BA1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_000B1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_013B1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_003A1002
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_00BA1002
"RADEON 7500 SERIES" = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157&SUBSYS_013B1002
"RADEON 7500 SERIES " = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157&SUBSYS_013A1002
"RADEON 8500 SERIES" = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C&SUBSYS_013A1002
"RADEON 8500 SERIES " = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C&SUBSYS_003A1002
"RADEON 9800 XT" = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E4A&SUBSYS_00021002
"RADEON 9800 XT - Secondary" = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E6A&SUBSYS_00031002
"RADEON X800" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4B&SUBSYS_00021002
"RADEON X800 PRO" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A49&SUBSYS_00021002
"RADEON X800 PRO Secondary" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A69&SUBSYS_00031002
"RADEON X800 Secondary" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6B&SUBSYS_00031002
"RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A50&SUBSYS_00021002
"RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition Secondary" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A70&SUBSYS_00031002
"ASUS Extreme AX300SE/T 128MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_002A1043
"ASUS Extreme AX300SE/T 128MB - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_002B1043
"ASUS Extreme AX600XT-TD 128M" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E50&SUBSYS_001E1043
"ASUS Extreme AX600XT-TD 128M - Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70&SUBSYS_001F1043
"ASUS RADEON 7000 64MB" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_C00A1043
"Gigabyte RADEON X300 128MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_21021458
"Gigabyte RADEON X300 128MB - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_21031458
"Gigabyte RADEON X300 SE 128MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_21021458
"Gigabyte RADEON X300 SE 128MB - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_21031458
"GIGABYTE RADEON X600 PRO 128MB - Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70&SUBSYS_21011458
"GIGABYTE RADEON X600XT 128M Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70&SUBSYS_21011458
"GIGABYTE RADEON X600XT 128MB" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E50&SUBSYS_21001458
"ABIT RADEON X600XT 128M" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E50&SUBSYS_0001147B
"ABIT RADEON X600XT 128M Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70&SUBSYS_0000147B
"C.P. Technologies Inc. RADEON X300SE" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_2089148C
"C.P. Technologies Inc. RADEON X600 PRO 256MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B62&SUBSYS_2083148C
"C.P. Technologies Inc. RADEON X600 PRO 256MB - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B72&SUBSYS_2082148C
"RADEON X300 Series Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_2088148C
"VISIONTEK RADEON 7000 Series" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_02801545
"VISIONTEK XTASY RADEON 9100" = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514D&SUBSYS_71491545
"HERCULES 3D PROPHET 9800 XT "Classic" 256MB" = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E4A&SUBSYS_00021681
"HERCULES 3D PROPHET 9800 XT "Classic" 256MB - Secondary" = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E6A&SUBSYS_00031681
"SAPPHIRE RADEON X300SE 128MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_0500174B
"SAPPHIRE RADEON X300SE 128MB - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_0501174B
"SAPPHIRE RADEON X300SE 128MB PCI-E" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_0440174B
"SAPPHIRE RADEON X300SE 128MB PCI-E - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_0441174B
"Sapphire RADEON X600 PRO 256MB" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B62&SUBSYS_0450174B
"Sapphire RADEON X600 PRO 256MB Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B72&SUBSYS_0451174B
"RADEON 7000 Series " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_100117EE
"GeCube RADEON 7000 PCI 32 MB" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_021218BC
"GeCube RADEON X300 PCIE 128M" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_060018BC
"GeCube RADEON X300 PCIE 128M Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_060118BC
"GeCube RADEON X300SE 128M" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_040018BC
"GeCube RADEON X300SE 128M Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_040118BC
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON 7000 32MB" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_001018D4
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON 7000 64MB" = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159&SUBSYS_000F18D4
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON X300" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60&SUBSYS_002E18D4
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON X300 - Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70&SUBSYS_002F18D4
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON X600 Series 128MB" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E50&SUBSYS_002A18D4
"Celestica "Gold Edition" RADEON X600 Series 128MB Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70&SUBSYS_002B18D4
"RADEON 7000 SERIES " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5159
"RADEON 7000 Series " = RV100_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_515A
"RADEON 7500 SERIES " = RV200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5157
"RADEON 8500 SERIES " = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C
"RADEON 9100 SERIES" = R200_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514D
"RADEON 9800 XT " = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E4A
"RADEON 9800 XT - Secondary " = R360_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E6A
"RADEON X300 Series" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B60
"RADEON X300 Series Secondary " = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B70
"RADEON X550" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B63
"RADEON X550 Secondary" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B73
"RADEON X600 Series" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E50
"RADEON X600 Series " = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B62
"RADEON X600 Series Secondary" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3E70
"RADEON X600 Series Secondary " = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5B72
"RADEON X800 PRO/GTO" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A49
"RADEON X800 PRO/GTO Secondary" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A69
"RADEON X800 Series " = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4B
"RADEON X800 Series " = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4A
"RADEON X800 Series Secondary" = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6A
"RADEON X800 Series Secondary " = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6B
"RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition " = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A50
"RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition Secondary " = R420_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A70

----pruned----

As you can see from the above, not only the X800, but X600 and X300 series are supported too!

I think that for now I'll stick with the intel integrated graphics or the s3 virge solution. What about the windows 98 real dos mode management?
Do you suggest to use it (dos 7.0?) or to install msdos before (like ver 6.02) and after that, go with windows98 installation?