VOGONS


Reply 60 of 80, by GuillermoXT

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I did ask that question on another forum already but did someone managed to get a cf (Master) and a CDrom drive (slave) working together using only a (non-pnp) soundcard's IDE port?
Currently the cf only seems to work combined with the Xtide Bios attached on a network card.
When I connect a hdd as slave instead of the CD Drive both are successfully detected.
Even when i boot with floppy (Xtide pulled out)
with drivers and connect only the CDrom it won't work.
Before i used unisound on a pnp card and it worked fine.

EDIT: CDRom works now with and without xtide BIOS booted by Floppy but when i combine it with a cf or hdd vide-cdd.sys does not detect the CDRom drive.

My Retrosystems:
K6-2 400 running Win98SE
P1-133 with Win3.11
Tandon 286-8MHZ Running DOS 5.0 on XT-IDE Card

Reply 62 of 80, by zapbuzz

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I just like to add that the most efficicient cdrom driver doesn't have to mean the least memory use.
QEMM memory manager can compress memory fo fit more programs into smaller memory spaces.
Has anyone tried Rudolph Loews dos tools for the optical department? I hear there are even burner tools for data
and I was going to put together DOS machine with qemm and a GUI likely quikmenu III.
A kind of windows 3.1 alternative for DOS I have played One Must Fall 2097 launched from quikmenu with a qemm config.

Reply 63 of 80, by Gmlb256

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In my experience the most memory efficient CD driver doesn't necessarily means the most compatible. One example is that on Warcraft II (DOS version) when using the CD playback for music and the entire faction soundtrack finishes playing the music will stay silent for the rest of the game session until you toggle the CD music checkbox or exit the current session, this happened when using VIDE-CDD.SYS on a LG CED 8120B CD-RW burner with MSCDEX.

Only when using OAKCDROM.SYS or GSCDROM.SYS solves that problem.

Reply 64 of 80, by dr_st

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-07, 23:02:

In my experience the most memory efficient CD driver doesn't necessarily means the most compatible. One example is that on Warcraft II (DOS version) when using the CD playback for music and the entire faction soundtrack finishes playing the music will stay silent for the rest of the game session until you toggle the CD music checkbox or exit the current session, this happened when using VIDE-CDD.SYS on a LG CED 8120B CD-RW burner with MSCDEX.

Interesting. I should run this experiment on my retro system.

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Reply 65 of 80, by Nemo1985

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dr_st wrote on 2021-08-08, 06:12:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-07, 23:02:

In my experience the most memory efficient CD driver doesn't necessarily means the most compatible. One example is that on Warcraft II (DOS version) when using the CD playback for music and the entire faction soundtrack finishes playing the music will stay silent for the rest of the game session until you toggle the CD music checkbox or exit the current session, this happened when using VIDE-CDD.SYS on a LG CED 8120B CD-RW burner with MSCDEX.

Interesting. I should run this experiment on my retro system.

Please do if you have time, it would be interesting to know the outcome 😀

Reply 66 of 80, by dizzydevil

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I cannot confirm the problem with VIDE-CDD.SYS,
I checked on my cd-rw LiteOn sohr-5239V02C drive and with the VIDE-CDD.SYS driver in the game Warcraft2 (dos) everything is fine.
CD music is repeated in the game.
I think that the Gmlb256 has problems with the VIDE-CDD.SYS specifically with its cd drive.
Instead of MSCDEX I am using the latest shcdx308.

Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-08-08, 07:00:
dr_st wrote on 2021-08-08, 06:12:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-07, 23:02:

In my experience the most memory efficient CD driver doesn't necessarily means the most compatible. One example is that on Warcraft II (DOS version) when using the CD playback for music and the entire faction soundtrack finishes playing the music will stay silent for the rest of the game session until you toggle the CD music checkbox or exit the current session, this happened when using VIDE-CDD.SYS on a LG CED 8120B CD-RW burner with MSCDEX.

Interesting. I should run this experiment on my retro system.

Reply 67 of 80, by Gmlb256

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dizzydevil wrote on 2021-08-08, 16:55:
I cannot confirm the problem with VIDE-CDD.SYS, I checked on my cd-rw LiteOn sohr-5239V02C drive and with the VIDE-CDD.SYS drive […]
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I cannot confirm the problem with VIDE-CDD.SYS,
I checked on my cd-rw LiteOn sohr-5239V02C drive and with the VIDE-CDD.SYS driver in the game Warcraft2 (dos) everything is fine.
CD music is repeated in the game.
I think that the Gmlb256 has problems with the VIDE-CDD.SYS specifically with its cd drive.
Instead of MSCDEX I am using the latest shcdx308.

This is why I mentioned the LG CD-RW drive since in my case was CD drive as you said. Certain CD drive may or may not work well with some of the DOS drivers, that what I'm trying to say.

Reply 68 of 80, by Caluser2000

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GuillermoXT wrote on 2021-07-17, 04:47:

No one?

Sound card ide headers are usually set to the third/fourth IDE channel.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 69 of 80, by dizzydevil

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I understood you. Indeed, VIDE-CDD.SYS may not be universal for all cd-roms drives.
For example, when I replaced MSCDEX with SHCDX33F,
I was getting an error in only one NFS1 game.
But when I updated SHCDX33F to the latest version shcdx308 created this year,
I no longer encountered problems.
And of course this driver is much less memory intensive.
This is just information that I am sharing buddy, thanks for your post too (about LG and VIDE-CDD).

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-08, 17:13:

This is why I mentioned the LG CD-RW drive since in my case was CD drive as you said. Certain CD drive may or may not work well with some of the DOS drivers, that what I'm trying to say.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-08-08, 22:38. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 70 of 80, by Nemo1985

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The bug was fixed because the author has received an email about it and he has been very nice to fix it in a matter of days.

He is looking for a new developer but he may be available to fix other issues, I just sent him an email last time.

Reply 71 of 80, by Oerg866

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If you must save conventional memory, SHSUCDX and UIDE (or rather XHDD/XDVD) are definitely the way to go.

Sadly I have to avoid both, because two of my favourite DOS games don't work with them.

TEMPEST 2000 won't detect / properly play CD audio with UIDE.
FIFA 96 won't work with SHSUCDX ("File Read Error")

Reply 72 of 80, by dr_st

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-08, 17:13:
dizzydevil wrote on 2021-08-08, 16:55:
I cannot confirm the problem with VIDE-CDD.SYS, I checked on my cd-rw LiteOn sohr-5239V02C drive and with the VIDE-CDD.SYS drive […]
Show full quote

I cannot confirm the problem with VIDE-CDD.SYS,
I checked on my cd-rw LiteOn sohr-5239V02C drive and with the VIDE-CDD.SYS driver in the game Warcraft2 (dos) everything is fine.
CD music is repeated in the game.
I think that the Gmlb256 has problems with the VIDE-CDD.SYS specifically with its cd drive.
Instead of MSCDEX I am using the latest shcdx308.

This is why I mentioned the LG CD-RW drive since in my case was CD drive as you said. Certain CD drive may or may not work well with some of the DOS drivers, that what I'm trying to say.

I have an LG CD-ROM and I forgot to test it last week. 🙁 Now it will be a couple of weeks at least before I get another chance with my DOS system.

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Reply 73 of 80, by dr_st

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-08-08, 07:00:
dr_st wrote on 2021-08-08, 06:12:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-07, 23:02:

In my experience the most memory efficient CD driver doesn't necessarily means the most compatible. One example is that on Warcraft II (DOS version) when using the CD playback for music and the entire faction soundtrack finishes playing the music will stay silent for the rest of the game session until you toggle the CD music checkbox or exit the current session, this happened when using VIDE-CDD.SYS on a LG CED 8120B CD-RW burner with MSCDEX.

Interesting. I should run this experiment on my retro system.

Please do if you have time, it would be interesting to know the outcome 😀

So the outcome is as follows: on my LG 52x CDROM, either with VIDE-CDD or with OAKCDROM - the music in Warcraft II doesn't stop at the end of track, but neither does it loop - instead it moves on to the next track. Weird, and not quite what you've experienced.

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Reply 74 of 80, by Gmlb256

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dr_st wrote on 2021-09-28, 16:13:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-08-08, 07:00:
dr_st wrote on 2021-08-08, 06:12:

Interesting. I should run this experiment on my retro system.

Please do if you have time, it would be interesting to know the outcome 😀

So the outcome is as follows: on my LG 52x CDROM, either with VIDE-CDD or with OAKCDROM - the music in Warcraft II doesn't stop at the end of track, but neither does it loop - instead it moves on to the next track. Weird, and not quite what you've experienced.

That's also one of the weirdness I've experienced with a different CD drive in DOS besides the music stopping at the end of track on my LG CD-RW which is 32x.

Reply 77 of 80, by appleiiguy

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If your hardware is compatible with Jemmex and JLOAD XCDROM32.DLL can reduce the cdrom driver to 64 bytes in high memory with the benefit of UDMA speeds. And you can also unlock UDMA speeds for your HDD.
Does Not play well with win 3.1x
but speeds increased from 2MB/s for HDD and CD to 7 MB/s CD and 20MB/s HDD..

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 16,925 (17K) 16,925 (17K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 2,928 (3K) 2,928 (3K) 0 (0K)
JLOAD 64 (0K) 0 (0K) 64 (0K)
SETVER 528 (1K) 0 (0K) 528 (1K)
SHSUCDX 6,160 (6K) 0 (0K) 6,160 (6K)
CTMOUSE 3,104 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,104 (3K)
S3VBEFIX 832 (1K) 0 (0K) 832 (1K)
Free 721,424 (705K) 634,272 (619K) 87,152 (85K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Conventional 654,336 20,064 634,272
Upper 97,840 10,688 87,152
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 69,049,808 1,941,968 67,107,840
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Total memory 69,801,984 1,972,720 67,829,264

Total under 1 MB 752,176 30,752 721,424

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (33,152K
Free Expanded (EMS) 33,554,432 (32,768K
Largest executable program size 634,176 (619K)
Largest free upper memory block 86,960 (85K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

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Reply 78 of 80, by matze79

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-07-12, 04:12:

I ultimately resolved the issue by switching IDE cards. Now the CDROM and EMS card are happily coexisting with VIDE-CDD loaded high and the page frame enabled

Nice you got it! 😀

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Reply 79 of 80, by red_avatar

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I've done a LOT of testing on many different systems over the past two years using a mix of original & replacement drivers and I found the following:

- CTMOUSE is not worth it - way too many games have issues with it:
* games not detecting the mouse
* game speed being wrong or X/Y axis having different speeds
* weird jittery movement in some games
* weird acceleration in some games
* some games straight out go bonkers where the mouse flies to the edge of the screen (Delphine games mostly - Cruise for a Corpse, Stealth Affair, etc.)
* games straight up crashing on start

If you have a specific game that demands a certain amount of conventional memory and doesn't conflict, it's a good option, otherwise, just use the Microsoft mouse driver for best compatibility

- VIDECDD works well in 95% of all cases but for some games, it causes crashes or for the game to not recognize the CD drive as a CD drive and in the case of a few games it causes weird behaviour.

Here's a good example: Little Big Adventure would not run properly on any of the tested PCs which all had various hardware - I even made a topic about it a while back asking for help here. It turns out VIDECDD was the culprit: when copying the speech files to the hard drive, it would corrupt them and then cause the game to crash. I moved to the original driver of the CD drives and on every system, this fixed the issue.

- Do NOT use a non-standard MSCDEX. This causes massive issues in tons of games - CD audio not playing or skipping or repeating, stuttering, games crashing, etc.

While all these low-memory options are great, there's not a single one that has perfect compatibility. If you only want to play a certain few games that are well known you're unlikely to run into many issues since the typical ones like DOOM, Lemmings, etc. all work fine but there's quite a few that can give you a major headache so if you're a proper DOS gamer, steer clear.

Also, it's perfectly possible to have 600kb+ conventional free if you know what you're doing with your config.sys and autoexec.bat without using these low memory options.

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IBM PS1 386SX25 - 4MB
IBM Aptiva 486SX33 - 8MB - 2GB CF - SB16
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i5-2500k - 3GB - SB Audigy 2 - HD 4870