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Modern graphics on a 486

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Reply 160 of 218, by feipoa

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I am curious what you use the USB card for? I have never had much use for one on a 486. I grab all files from the ethernet card, for mouse I use the PS/2 port, for printer drivers I use the ethernet (although not in the last few years), etc.

What aspect of the GF2 is non-functional? 21 fps in GLQuake is certainly not in software mode. What resolution is that at? I have noted that I could not get D3D working with the GF2 and an Am5x86.

The other options for you are to source a 4 PCI slot 486 motherboard, however my luck with getting all 4 PCI slots working reliably was not very good. You can also try not using the SATA card (which one did you end up with, by the way?) and using the onboard IDE with a CF card. Not sure if there are any solid state drives which will work on the onboard IDE.

You could also forget about the GeForce2 and use a Matrox G200 as it has working D3D. I recall users here saying it is pretty compatible with DOS titles as well. Not sure about Rage128 VR's DOS game compatibility, but it is also a good performer. If you don't care at all about OpenGL or D3D, it would be interesting to see what accelerated games you can get going with S3's S3D API. I recall reading that some D3D games with with Virge cards.

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Reply 161 of 218, by opiate

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feipoa wrote:

I am curious what you use the USB card for? I have never had much use for one on a 486. I grab all files from the ethernet card, for mouse I use the PS/2 port, for printer drivers I use the ethernet (although not in the last few years), etc.

Experiment. I'm trying to install XP on 486 CPU, I have few ideas and USB port is essential to the process. I know that POD is minimum for XP, but i will try anyway, like i said - i have few ideas.

feipoa wrote:

What aspect of the GF2 is non-functional? 21 fps in GLQuake is certainly not in software mode. What resolution is that at? I have noted that I could not get D3D working with the GF2 and an Am5x86.

Problem with Quake on GF2 is solved, unsolved problems are all the other games in GL mode. Tried more that 20 titles - no succes of running them with opengl. My 21 FPS was achieved at 640x480.

feipoa wrote:

The other options for you are to source a 4 PCI slot 486 motherboard, however my luck with getting all 4 PCI slots working reliably was not very good. You can also try not using the SATA card (which one did you end up with, by the way?) and using the onboard IDE with a CF card. Not sure if there are any solid state drives which will work on the onboard IDE.

Regarding SATA, well it's hard to tell. I'm using some 'noname' card that have Promise chip on it. W95 lets me install drivers for model "SATA150 TX2plus". Tried SSD - no go, currently i'm using ATA HDD connected to that controller. Working great, can't imagine switching to onboard controller. Not very happy with CF card speed.

feipoa wrote:

You could also forget about the GeForce2 and use a Matrox G200 as it has working D3D. I recall users here saying it is pretty compatible with DOS titles as well. Not sure about Rage128 VR's DOS game compatibility, but it is also a good performer. If you don't care at all about OpenGL or D3D, it would be interesting to see what accelerated games you can get going with S3's S3D API. I recall reading that some D3D games with with Virge cards.

Just checked Quake 2 in GL - works, so 2 games are working, rest arent. So... that pushed me to check Pentium with that card [gf2] - guess what - same result. Only Q1 and Q2 were working in GL, other games reported error regarding video memory. Maybe my GF2 is broken.

I have option to buy cheap VooDoo 2 PCI 8MB, so 4MB less from 12MB version - is this big difference in gaming performance on 486 mobo?

Reply 163 of 218, by opiate

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feipoa wrote:

How did the voodoo2 workout?

Honestly, i was expecting better results. 21,5 fps in GL Quake and 9,5 fps in Q2 (on 12MB VD2), now im hunting another model for SLI. I have to switch CPU for 160MHZ friendly model, mine won't run at more that 133 😒 BTW. Just bought 64MB nVidia Quadro NVS400 PCI ed.

Reply 164 of 218, by feipoa

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I recall another forum user, probably rgart, tried Voodoo2 in SLI on a 486 without any improvement in the GLQuake score. I would also focus on obtaining an Am5x86 which runs at 160 MHz.

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Reply 165 of 218, by PcBytes

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Might be a bad idea,but you could try a PCI version of a FX5200. Not really that bright (it's slightly better than GF4 MX?) but for a 486 it might be worth trying it.

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Reply 167 of 218, by feipoa

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Even on a POD100, the FX5200 was shown to be slower than the GF4 MX400 on an AMD K6-III+, probably due to the driver version required.

On a different note, I have looking through this thread trying to figure out what I meant by the * No Sound asterisk in the following table. Anyone? How can two "No Sound" benchmarks be so different? I'm sure it will come to me...

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Reply 168 of 218, by dirkmirk

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Did anyone have luck running a DVI video card for 2d dos/windows and totally disregard 3D performance?

It appears their were no DVI based Geforce 2 PCI cards(IE geforce 2MX/geforce 4MX4000/MX440).

The Radeon 7000 looks like a good bet but has anyone tried it and does it perform well in dos?

Another potential option is the Matrox G200 quad but how the hell would you connect it to a DVI port?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matrox-G2-QUADP-PL- … d-/232080939229
Every DVI standard from my quick googling shows at least a flat metal bar on one side of the connector, I "presume" the quad supplied cable has a more standardised connection? Even still I cant tell if the cables split off into VGA making the whole idea pointless.

Has anyone tried a G450? More modern but might be the best option.

Again not taking 3D gaming into consideration more for the games like commander keen that dont run on modern displays with vga connector.

Reply 169 of 218, by feipoa

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I had trouble finding a PCI Radeon 7000. Any modestly priced options out there?

I indicated on page 1 of this thread that the Matrox G450 works with SiS 496 boards, but not UMC 8881 boards. However, even with SiS boards, I was unable to get the Win98 display drivers working with a 486 CPU. I did not try the POD.

The best bet for DVI and a 486 is to find the DVI feature connector for the G200. Last I saw one was 6 years ago and the guy wanted more than $50. I did not buy it.

I do not beleive the G200 quad card is not DVI. That is a special connector for a VGA splitter cable.

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Reply 170 of 218, by dirkmirk

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Well this untested boxed Radeon 7000 could potentially be won for $2 plus $9USD postage for those inside the USA, postage to Canada would be $22usd or $29USD to Australia not so much a bargain.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sapphire-Radeon-70 … tY9qzr#shpCntId

Theirs heaps for sale like this guy has a stack for $20USD plus shipping, his shipping option is quoting $100USD+ to Australia and Canada, might be worth using a freight forwarder for a BNIB item like this, ATI retail version.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATI-TECHNOLOGIES-A … dVdddx#shpCntId
No mention of DVI I'll ask the seller.

Visiontek for $12.50USD plus postage
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATI-Radeon-PCI-Vis … hWT0k1#shpCntId

I just use "Radeon 7000 -AGP" in ebay no shortage of cards.

Reply 171 of 218, by feipoa

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That sapphire card looks OK, but not worth the shipping for me. Maybe someone else can test the Radeon 7000 in their 486?

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Reply 173 of 218, by jade_angel

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feipoa wrote:
I had trouble finding a PCI Radeon 7000. Any modestly priced options out there? […]
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I had trouble finding a PCI Radeon 7000. Any modestly priced options out there?

I indicated on page 1 of this thread that the Matrox G450 works with SiS 496 boards, but not UMC 8881 boards. However, even with SiS boards, I was unable to get the Win98 display drivers working with a 486 CPU. I did not try the POD.

The best bet for DVI and a 486 is to find the DVI feature connector for the G200. Last I saw one was 6 years ago and the guy wanted more than $50. I did not buy it.

I do not beleive the G200 quad card is not DVI. That is a special connector for a VGA splitter cable.

I was successfully able to get a G450 working with one of my UMC8881 boards but not with the other one. Alas, the one it worked in has croaked, but while it worked, it worked with DOS and OS/2. I never did try getting it going under Win95/98.

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Reply 174 of 218, by feipoa

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I think you will discover that OpenGL and DirectX drivers for the G450 will not function properly, even if you can find a working Windows display driver. Might work with the POD, but I haven't tried it.

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Reply 175 of 218, by lvader

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lvader wrote:

I bought an fx5200 pci DVI to try on a Pentium Socket 7 build, I just tried it on a 486 and it works! it''s a Inno 3D Tornado 128MB (fan less)

DVI is very disapointing on this card, it scales DOS games to 1024x768@60hz and looks very soft. Analogue VGA though looks prteey good.

Reply 176 of 218, by jammaster

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Does anybody have tried to use a full opengl pipe on a pci 486 system ?
I think about an E&S AccelEclipse PCI or an Intergraph Realizm with geometry accelerator.
These boards are not "fill rate killers" but capable of handling all load of a 3d workspace in game.

The Transform & Lightning fashion was already here in opengl world since 1995/96.

Reply 177 of 218, by feipoa

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Did the Realizm come in a PCI flavour? I haven't tried this E&S card you mentioned. Perhaps you can test it?

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Reply 178 of 218, by jammaster

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My accelgalaxy post with an umc pci / pod83.
Need time for testing it.
I have the agp version of 3410gt. Lynx iv pci geometry board and agp rasterisation board.
Need a pci version of 3400. (msmst495).
Can try my gl1t but this card have no geometry accélération.

Reply 179 of 218, by Qbcd

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Guys, could I get some advice on running a GeForce card in a Socket 3 board please?

I'm rebuilding my childhood 486 PC and getting all the upgrades I dreamed of but couldn't get as a child (isn't this what most of us are doing here anyway).

The board I have is the fabled Asus PVI-486SP3 with the SiS 496/497 chipset. I got a POD 83 to run in it. I'm wondering what the fastest GPU I can put in that board is. After doing lots of research (enormous thanks to @feipoa, his posts alone have accounted for most of what I've learned about this project), I came to the conclusion that the Riva TNT PCI is the fastest card that will run and/or will be most compatible with Windows 9x and DOS. I was lucky to find the Creative model on ebay. I haven't tested the system yet, I assume it would run.

However... I got this idea in my head that I want the PC to be able to play DVDs. I'm not too crazy about getting a dedicated decoder card. The Creative DXR2 has issues with quality, the DXR3's cable is impossible to find and I don't like the VGA cable passthru implementation. Moreover, I don't want to sacrifice one of my PCI slots for it. I only have 3, one will be the GPU, the other a SATA card so I can use a modern SSD and get much better than Pio-3 speeds, and the third a USB 2.0 card.

So... I researched what the oldest Nvidia GPU is that has a full MPEG-2 hardware decoder on-die. And it appears to be the NV17 die -- GeForce 4 MX420/440/460 (let me know if I'm wrong about that). If I can get an MX420 card to run in the PVI-486SP3 with the POD 83, then I might be able to play DVDs by using the hardware acceleration alone. But I don't know if it'll work and I'd like to find out before I spend $50-100 on one (the PCI ones are rare). I've searched this forum/the internet and not found an answer. My gut tells me it won't work, but I've found posts here where people claim they've run GeForce 4 cards on 486 boards, and I believe SiS 496/497 specifically. But I think it also depends on the board. And then of course there's the issue of drivers... The card may boot, but could I run drivers for it? Would OpenGL/Direct3D still work? POD should help because newer drivers require Pentium instructions. Or is there an older card that will do partial acceleration, but enough for the POD 83 to handle smooth playback? All questions I'm wondering.

Sorry, I know that was a lot. If anyone has my board and/or any information relevant to what I'm trying to do, any input would be highly appreciated thank you.