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Modern graphics on a 486

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Reply 40 of 178, by feipoa

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amstrad1640 wrote:

Yes i 've used theses cards on 2 motherboards: Abit PB4 et MSI 4144

SiS 496/497 Chipsets

I find these the most interesting. Could you go into more detail on exactly which card maker/model and which driver versions you tried? Often you need to try very old driver versions to get a card working on a 486. What OpenGL and Direct3D games did you test them with? Quake2 is a typical OpenGL game I test. For D3D, I only have MDK.

Kyro 1 64 mb
(ok but slow, bad drivers?)
What was slow? Slow loading Windows, or loading a D3D/OpenGL game? What driver version?

Ati Rage 128 (fast on opengl game and i don't know why i can't to use direct 3d?)
What exact Rage 128 card was it? Rage 128 GL, VR, or Pro? What PCB maker? Which driver versions were tested?

Geforce 2 mx 440 (geforce 2like) (windows 98se ok, 3d gameand onpelgl not run)
I have doubts that anything beyond the TNT will have working drivers on a 486, but I'm always hoping for some counter examples. What driver version did you try? Did you try the Detenator3 with driver version 4.12.01.0650, from 12/04/2000?

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Reply 41 of 178, by feipoa

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feipoa wrote:
Thanks for testing this. Very comparable results: […]
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Thanks for testing this. Very comparable results:

Cyrix 5x86-133 (2x66)
WinNT 4.0
Matrox Millennium G200 16MB
Quake II Timedemo1, 640x480, OpenGL
7.6 fps

AMD X5-180 (3x60)
Win98SE
RIVA TNT 16MB
Quake II Timedemo1, 640x480, OpenGL
7.8 fps

The logical next step now is to see how well the Voodoo3 does on a Cyrix 5x86-133 (2x66) and an AMD X5-180 then compare it with the POD83/100.

I finally did some testing on a ATI Rage 128 VR PCI 32MB. It seems to work fine with Quake II OpenGL at 640x480. The results kinda make the RIVA TNT seem not so important.

IBM 5x86-133 (2x66)
Win98SE
ATI Rage 128 VR
Driver 4.11.6216
Quake II Timedemo1, 640x480, OpenGL
9.5 fps

In going from driver dated 4-9-1999 to 11-30-1999, the frame rate increased 1.1 fps. There are still newer drivers to test, but one requires DX7, the other, DX8. Does anyone know if I install DX7, then DX8, if I am able to uninstall back to DX6? If so, how?

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Reply 43 of 178, by feipoa

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Putas wrote:

No easy way, but there is quite reliable 3rd party DirectX uninstaller tool.

The names and versions of such 3rd party uninstaller programs that you have used successfully with Win98SE for DX7 and DX8 would be helpful. Thanks!

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Reply 45 of 178, by feipoa

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I haven't tried anything yet. I was waiting to hear from someone with first-hand experience. At this time, it is not worth testing this as it could spoil my 486 test system.

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Reply 46 of 178, by F2bnp

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Hey feipoa, I might be of some help. I wanted to get rid of DirectX 8.0 in a Win98SE setup of mine with a K6-3+ in there. I used DirectX Eradicator and it worked perfectly. Just installed DirectX 7.0a after that and it seems to be working just fine.
You should give it a try!

Reply 47 of 178, by feipoa

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F2bnp, thank you. I have downloaded DirectX Eradicator v1.09 and will give it a go when the time is right. My current plan of action is to test a Rage 128 Pro on the 486 for Win9x/NT4 display and OpenGL drivers w/DirectX6. If that works well, then try to source some Radeon 7000 series PCI card.

Does nobody here have a Radeon 7000 series PCI card and a 486? I have a gut feeling that Radeon drivers will not work on a 486. It seems like once the millennium hit, modern graphics on a 486 went out the window.

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Reply 48 of 178, by sliderider

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I really don't see a whole lot of reason to put too new of a video card into a 486 motherboard. Beyond a certain point the video card is going to become CPU bound, so you won't pick up any frames and older games that will run on a 486 system won't likely take full advantage of the feature set of a newer video card so there's not much to really be gained by getting carried away trying to get a more modern video card to work in such an old system when an older card would give the same results.

Reply 49 of 178, by feipoa

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The objective is to see how modern it can be taken, strictly out of curiosity, rather than practicality. As with many topics here, this may interest some, and not others. For one reason or another, this topic fascinates me.

I too thought there would be some asymptotic limit with ever increasing GPU modernisation, but jumping from 7.6 to 9.5 fps in Quake II got me thinking twice. For those who like to max out their PCI-based 486's and don't have a SiS chipset to run the Voodoo3 on, the Rage 128 VR out-performs the Matrox G200 in QII and has a crisp display. On a half-baked more practical note, the Rage 128's are damn cheap and plentiful. Alas, once you get into the Radeon 7000 series (also cheap and plentiful), you get the novelty of running DVI on a 486.

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Reply 50 of 178, by vetz

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I would love to find a card that allows DVI on a 486.

I picked up the G200 with DVI for very cheap the other day. Didn't even work on a 486 (or Socket 4). I got it working on my 430VX system, but it is terrible in DOS! STAY AWAY! It is extremely good for 2D Windows usage, but nothing more.

So far my experience with DVI and DOS have been best with the Nvidia Geforce cards. My AGP FX card does the job very well. Just too bad it can't be used in 486s

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Reply 51 of 178, by sliderider

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feipoa wrote:

The objective is to see how modern it can be taken, strictly out of curiosity, rather than practicality. As with many topics here, this may interest some, and not others. For one reason or another, this topic fascinates me.

I too thought there would be some asymptotic limit with ever increasing GPU modernisation, but jumping from 7.6 to 9.5 fps in Quake II got me thinking twice. For those who like to max out their PCI-based 486's and don't have a SiS chipset to run the Voodoo3 on, the Rage 128 VR out-performs the Matrox G200 in QII and has a crisp display. On a half-baked more practical note, the Rage 128's are damn cheap and plentiful. Alas, once you get into the Radeon 7000 series (also cheap and plentiful), you get the novelty of running DVI on a 486.

Which chipsets does the Radeon 7000 work with?

Reply 52 of 178, by feipoa

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sliderider wrote:

Which chipsets does the Radeon 7000 work with?

I don't know which chipset, nor do I know if it will even work. The goal of the following thread was to find out,
Anyone with a PCI Radeon 7000 and a PCI-based 486 motherboard?

..but there have been no takers.

Someone here must have a PCI Radeon 7000 series card with a PCI 486. In the least, a simple plug-it-in and turn-it-on would be all that it takes to say if it does not work. Otherwise, I'll have to blow some dough to find out. Here is one for $23 w/shipping. With the "make offer" feature, I'm sure it can be had for around $15. There seems to be a nearly infinite supply from this seller.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/310419574655

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Reply 53 of 178, by feipoa

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OP updated for ATI Rage 128 PRO 32 MB. This may be the end of the line as I was unable to find a working OpenGL driver for this card when tested with Quake II. However, NT4 Quake II in OpenGL mode worked as did all the display drivers.

Does anyone have an ATI Rage 128 Pro, Rage Fury Pro, or Xpert 2000 Pro driver from 1999 or 2000? I guess, anything before 4.13.7078 could be tested. The Xpert 128 driver, which worked fine for the Rage 128 VR in Win98SE, did not work for the Rage 128 Pro.

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Reply 54 of 178, by feipoa

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With all the extensive testing of drivers for GeForce2, ATI Rage 128 VR, ATI Rage 128 Pro, and RIVA TNT, my MB-8433UUD will no longer function when a Cyrix 5x86 CPU is installed. Am5x86 and POD chips still work fine in this motherboard. I've seen something similar happen once before where an M919 would no longer work with a Am5x86 in Write-Back mode. I think the problem in this case is somehow related to the PCI implementation and how the Cyrix 5x86 handles it. MemTest passes OK.

I am not sure what to blaim the cause on. I did notice that when using the GeFroce2, that the BIOS pages redrew very slowly. The BIOS pages also loaded slow with the RIVA TNT, but not nearly as slow.

The symptoms are such that I receive a BSOD in WinNT4 upon boot or Win95c will hang on loading at a point just before the welcome screen. Upon switching to an Am5x86, everything loads fine. Switching to a different MB-8433UUD and keeping the Cyrix 5x86, everything works fine. I guess I'll be switching to another MB-8433UUD to continue testing ATI Rage 128 drivers for working NT4 drivers on a Cyrix 5x86.

At any rate, I have updated the OP to reflect benchmarks and exactly which driver versions work with POD, Am5x86, Cyrix 5x86, Win9x, and WinNT for the GeForce2, RIVA TNT, and ATI Rage 128. I have one more high graphics card to test before creating some charts.

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Reply 56 of 178, by feipoa

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I did not install DirectX 8. I did install DX7 to test some newer driver versions.

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Reply 57 of 178, by ElectricMonk

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What bus does the system in question support? That'll help narrow the list down, if it's ISA, VLB, or PCI.

It was VLB only, but I liked my old ET4000/w32p. Support 2D acceleration in DOS and Windows. No 3D support, though.

I had a Rage 128 at one point, but between driver bugs, and lots of dithering, I ended up replacing it with either a TNT2 or an early Geforce.

Last edited by ElectricMonk on 2014-09-29, 18:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 59 of 178, by ElectricMonk

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leileilol wrote:

Isn't it obvious enough PCI is the bus of concern in a "modern graphics" thread?

Except it's a 486 system, which had more than just PCI, depending on the motherboard. ISA, EISA, and VLB ring a bell?