Artex wrote:

Hello Everyone! […]
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Hello Everyone!

I've decided to build a 486 system for a few reasons:

• 1) I skipped this generation growing up, moving from a 386SX-16 to a Pentium 75.
  2) I love a challenge!
  3) I've finished collecting my Roland & Creative sound cards and need to find a new project!

The goal is to play some older DOS titles with this box, so 3D acceleration isn't a concern here.

I've read through some of the forums posts about these builds, and have settled on a 486DX2/66 for the proc. Where I'm having problems is deciding on a motherboard to go with it. The question is - do I go for a VLB/EISA board or go with a ISA/PCI setup. I'm not too familiar with the Vesa Local Bus generation, but I'd be willing to venture into this territory. I'm just more comfortable with a PCI/ISA setup and I would imagine VLB hardware is costly and more hard to come by.

I've gathered that people seem to like these boards for their setups:

• *Biostar MB-8433UUD (ISA, PCI & PS/2)
  *ASUS VLI-486SV2G (VLB)
  *Shuttle HOT-433 (ISA, PCI)

As far as some of the other concerns I've read about:

• *Beware of soldered RTC chips (i.e. DALLAS) - replace them them with button-type batteries.
  *Use FPM memory vs EDO
  *Beware fake cache chips
  *Ensure correct CPU orientation in the slot
  *SiS 496/497 & UMC chipsets are highly recommended
  *Have at least 256KB cache memory
  *Support for writeback cache

Any other recommendations or caveats I should be aware of? I appreciate any advice you can offer!

A ps2 mouse would be nice 😉

Personally I'd go with a PCI system, as it will be much easier to find parts (though some people seem to prefer VLB over PCI).

The Biostar MB-8433UUD is a nice board however keep in mind that the PS/2 support is not perfect

Feipoa's documentation on the Biostar MB-8433UUD Page 10 wrote:

Keyboard / Mouse The board is complete with an AT-style keyboard and PS/2 mouse port (and header). The Southbridge (UM8886BF), a […]
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Keyboard / Mouse
The board is complete with an AT-style keyboard and PS/2 mouse port (and header). The Southbridge (UM8886BF), and
perhaps the Super I/O and BIOS combination, seems to be responsible for the keyboard and PS/2 mouse implementations,
whereas older 486-era motherboards employed a specific i8042-class keyboard controller chip. You can easily create your
own PS/2 mouse cable; the pin-outs can be found on the Board Layoutpage.
Some users reported Windows 95 having issues with the PS/2 mouse, however none of the boards tested herein had issues.
This is an excerpt from one user,

Under Windows 95, the keyboard and PS/2 mouse may conflict causing a complete loss of control. If you press a
key, a mouse button, and move the mouse at the same time, both the keyboard and mouse become unusable. If you
then warm-boot the machine, it will "update ESCD" and remove PS/2 mouse support! You will need to cold-boot to
get the mouse back. Without mouse or keyboard, you can't shut down Windows properly. The problem was
repeatable in Windows 95's real mode (DOS prompt), under DOS 6.22, and in Linux under XFree86, so it's not just
a Windows 95 driver issue. Quantex reports this problem as unresolved on their page of support info. They say it's
a bug in the UMC I/O controllers, and I believe it. This problem can be worked around by simply using a serial
mouse instead of a PS/2 mouse. I'm running fine with an old Logitech mouse on COM2 right now.

This does not affect all boards in the same way. In my case if I press a key, a mouse button, and move the mouse at the same time, I only get a stuck key repeating the combination fixes this.

As for VLB vs PCI , PCI will be easier and in general cheaper to acquire. VLB might be more fun to work with due to the higher retro factor.

*Beware of soldered RTC chips (i.e. DALLAS) - replace them them with button-type batteries

You don't necessarily have to do this. If you can solder a socket onto the mother board, then you can replace the RTC just like any other socketed IC. There are also hacks for cutting the RTC open and wiring it up to an external battery when the internal one dies.

The DX2 66 is a classic chip and I used one back in the day for a couple of years, but it falls between eras in some ways. It's a little too fast for some games (Ultima 7, etc), and a little too slow for others (Doom, etc.) My 486 chip of choice is the 486SX33.

VLB is the way to go, PCI was moving into the Pentium era, and if you like a challenge then VLB is the thing for you!

I have that ASUS board you mentioned and it's a good one, very solid.

Well I'd say VLB if you are really nostalgic, but besides the oddity of the interface there is no real life advantage for a normal user from it. I like Biostar, simply because most of my cards are PCI, but one exception is the Forte VFX-1 controler card, which - in combination with the matching VR Headgear - totally makes you king of descent. Well if ya like playing descent in stereoscopic 3D and with headtracking that is.

But seriously - if it's just for a challenge then all boards will be fine. I wouldn't invest too much if you don't really plan doing anything with it.

Thanks for all the input. I understand the nostalgic part of this, but some people are simply asking WAY too much $$$ for this stuff! Gonna have to just wait it out a bit longer I guess...

Artex wrote:

Thanks for all the input. I understand the nostalgic part of this, but some people are simply asking WAY too much $$$ for this stuff! Gonna have to just wait it out a bit longer I guess...

Even though it's a long shot, you could try to obtail a complete 486 on fleamarkets and such. But chances of now finding a cheap 486 are quite slim.

Personally I don't think prices will be dropping by a large margin in the future, though with the economic crisis in Europe and many other parts of the world, people 'might' decide to sell quicker to generate some extra quick cash.

This topic has come up before, and I still recommend VLB for a more authentic 486 experience. I've personally had way more problems with 486 and PCI than I ever had with VLB. 5V 486 VLB boards just work for the most part. I don't think the cards are that difficult to find either (though choices are limited). If you just want to run the classics then a Cirrus Logic card will work well.

memsys wrote:

The Biostar MB-8433UUD is a nice board however keep in mind that the PS/2 support is not perfect […]
Show full quote

The Biostar MB-8433UUD is a nice board however keep in mind that the PS/2 support is not perfect

Feipoa's documentation on the Biostar MB-8433UUD Page 10 wrote:

Keyboard / Mouse The board is complete with an AT-style keyboard and PS/2 mouse port (and header). The Southbridge (UM8886BF), a […]
Show full quote

Keyboard / Mouse
The board is complete with an AT-style keyboard and PS/2 mouse port (and header). The Southbridge (UM8886BF), and
perhaps the Super I/O and BIOS combination, seems to be responsible for the keyboard and PS/2 mouse implementations,
whereas older 486-era motherboards employed a specific i8042-class keyboard controller chip. You can easily create your
own PS/2 mouse cable; the pin-outs can be found on the Board Layoutpage.
Some users reported Windows 95 having issues with the PS/2 mouse, however none of the boards tested herein had issues.
This is an excerpt from one user,

Under Windows 95, the keyboard and PS/2 mouse may conflict causing a complete loss of control. If you press a
key, a mouse button, and move the mouse at the same time, both the keyboard and mouse become unusable. If you
then warm-boot the machine, it will "update ESCD" and remove PS/2 mouse support! You will need to cold-boot to
get the mouse back. Without mouse or keyboard, you can't shut down Windows properly. The problem was
repeatable in Windows 95's real mode (DOS prompt), under DOS 6.22, and in Linux under XFree86, so it's not just
a Windows 95 driver issue. Quantex reports this problem as unresolved on their page of support info. They say it's
a bug in the UMC I/O controllers, and I believe it. This problem can be worked around by simply using a serial
mouse instead of a PS/2 mouse. I'm running fine with an old Logitech mouse on COM2 right now.

This does not affect all boards in the same way. In my case if I press a key, a mouse button, and move the mouse at the same time, I only get a stuck key repeating the combination fixes this.

As for VLB vs PCI , PCI will be easier and in general cheaper to acquire. VLB might be more fun to work with due to the higher retro factor.

I have never been able to replicate the PS/2 mouse issues with the MB8433-UUD. I think that guy was using a version 1 board, whereas I've always used v2 and v3 boards. Or perhaps that is a Win95 issue, whereas Win98/NT4/W2k didn't have the PS/2 issue. This board has rock solid PS/2 mouse performance as far as I can discern.

I now beleive only the southbridge is responsible for the PS/2 mouse; the PS/2 clock and data originate from pins 199 and 200 of the southbridge. The keyboard clock and data also originate from the southbridge (Pins 56/57), so I beleive that the UM8886 chipset contains an i8042-compatible keyboard controller. This is one of the points I need to udpate on the 8433-UUD manual.

Hmm Then perhaps my board is flawed/damaged... That could explain some issues i have been having.

@Feipoa If I can get some time this weekend I'm going to send you a private message about some problems I have with my MB8433-UUD.

OK, I am looking forward to hearing about it.