VOGONS


First post, by Sedrosken

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I would think that because DOS can't take advantage of MMX or DVD, these would be the theoretical max specs for a DOS/Win3.11 PC without having things it couldn't use:

Intel Pentium Pro 233 MHz
64 MB RAM
SoundBlaster AWE 64 Gold
S3 Trio 64V+ PCI 2 MB VRAM
2 GB HDD (Primary IDE Master)
52x CD-ROM (Primary IDE Slave)
1.44 MB 3.5" FDD A:
1.2 MB 5.25" FDD B:
MS-DOS 6.22
Windows 3.11

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 1 of 16, by idspispopd

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

MMX: Even though DOS itself won't use MMX games could do that (I don't know if there are DOS games that do). MMX was designed so it needed no OS support, as opposed to SSE.
Anyway MMX won't hurt, but you would limit your CPU performance. For example a faster CPU wouldn't be overkill for Quake in higher resolutions.

DVD: Even if you don't want to play video DVDs a DVD drive may come in handy for data.
It'll work as such, see eg. http://www.win31.de/ewin3dvd.htm

RAM, sound card, hard disk should be fine (Of course you could use a bigger HDD if you have lots of later games. You'd need a later DOS version for partitions bigger than 2GB.)

Video card: Some DOS games support 3D accelerators but that depends on if you are interested in those. Otherwise your S3 card is a good choice.

Depending on what you want to do you could install an ethernet card which has drivers for WfW 3.11.

Reply 3 of 16, by Sedrosken

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Thanks for the input, these tools being brought to light leads me to modify my previous statement. My max specs without them being severe overkill would be:

Pentium II 233 MHz, 66 MHz FSB
64 MB EDO SIMMs 66 MHz (no real reason to use SDR DIMMs)
SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold
Hmmm... How about a Voodoo 2 PCI 12 MB? How would that stack up?
~20 GB HDD (400 MB partition for system files: MS-DOS 7.1, FAT16 so Win3.11 won't throw a fit(I know, that wasn't released separately by Microsoft, but I need it for FAT32), 19.6 GB FAT32 partition for storage) Primary IDE Master
52x CD-ROM Secondary IDE Master
8x DVD-ROM Secondary IDE Slave
1.44 MB 3.5" FDD A:
1.2 MB 5.25" FDD B:
MS-DOS 7.1
Windows 3.11
Aforementioned utilities

About the network card: I wouldn't know how to make it interface with today's computers anyway, and even if I did, I wouldn't really be able to use it with the internet because of its (when compared to today's machines) evident slowness. So, I have decided not to add this in.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 5 of 16, by d1stortion

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

As idspispopd said, a number of DOS action games could be played in resolutions such as 1024x768 and that's where even higher P3s and Athlons won't cut it for maxing it out 100%. The PII 233 would rather fit a "1997 high end" theme as it was perhaps the last year where some commercial DOS games were still being released. If you would go for that then I don't see how a 8x DVD drive, Voodoo2 etc. fit in though.

Reply 6 of 16, by vetz

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
leileilol wrote:

A Voodoo2 won't be as useful as a Voodoo1 in a DOS exclusive environment. Theres' very few Glide DOS games that can run on a Voodoo2

Just want to expand a bit on this. If you are SOLELY going to play DOS Glide games then a Voodoo 1 card is enough performance wise. I also don't know about any DOS Glide game that offers resolutions above 640x480. A Voodoo 2 will play the DOS games as long as you use a standard .batch file to load SST environments to trick the game that the V2 is a V1. So if you already have a V2 laying around I wouldn't spend even more money on a V1.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 7 of 16, by d1stortion

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Yeah but have you tried it with 2 cards SLI'd together? Cause that's what you want to use to make later games more playable. And if it's not to play later games as well the V1 is enough.

Reply 9 of 16, by elianda

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I have a different opinion on this:
DOS runs easily on the most modern hardware as a new i7. So the main limitations for the focus of gaming are just ISA slot for sound and fast VESA compatible graphics.
So the limit would be an Athlon TBC 1400 MHz on a KT133 with a single ISA slot to plug a AWE f.e., add some Banshee/Riva128 and a single DVD drive. Network can be onboard or a simple Realtek 8139C that has DOS packet drivers included, thus also a WfW 3.11 would work with network.

If you want to have more ISA slots go for a BX mainboard with a P3 800MHz.

The ethernet argument is invalid. Ethernet was already introduced in 1990 and in 1992? the IBM PS/2 systems featured already network cards with RJ45 connector for ethernet. So high end users already had in 1994 a network card in their DOS PC for the LAN parties.
For DOS I prefer MS-DOS 6.22 with a 2 GB FAT16 partition and network functionality to just copy the data on demand. Maybe FAT16 is not so crucial for games, but a lot of old applications just don't work with FAT32.

A DVD ROM is in DOS mainly just a large CD-ROM, so two drives doesn't make much sense. Usually it introduces more problems instead, as the games save the drive letter from installation.
Games with support for a V1 are from the sum of DOS games just a very specific case. But it has been discussed here already that a V1 would be the best choice.

Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, Videos. Now with file search
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool

Reply 10 of 16, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
vetz wrote:

A Voodoo 2 will play the DOS games as long as you use a standard .batch file to load SST environments to trick the game that the V2 is a V1. So if you already have a V2 laying around I wouldn't spend even more money on a V1.

Could you please expand on this? Does this workaround work for every DOS game with glide support?

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 11 of 16, by vetz

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Could you please expand on this? Does this workaround work for every DOS game with glide support?

As someone mentioned earlier even a V3 will work on Carmageddon, which is a DOS Glide game. The Carmageddon Glide patch came very late (in the expansion pack) so it is entirely possible it is programmed to expect all kinds of Voodoo cards. I am pretty sure that some DOS Glide games don't even require the batch file to be loaded at all. I think Pyl (1998) is one of them as well.

The thing is that you have to separate between the games with static and dynamic links (and the games in Windows which use Glide 2.x ie Mechwarrior 2 and Scorched Planet). The DOS Glide games that use static links will only work on Voodoo 1 cards unless you run a batch file prior to starting the game on a Voodoo 2 (won't work with Rush, Banshee, V3, V5). While I haven't tested all DOS glide games on my Voodoo 2 SLI setup I've had no problems so far. Static ones like Battle Arena Toshinden and Whiplash/Fatal Racing load up without problems.

DOS Glide games list are available here: DOS Glide Games List
It should be 99.9% complete after input from very many sources, debunking + testing in another thread here on Vogons in 2012.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 12 of 16, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

That's great to know! I have a Voodoo 2 and might include it in my MS-DOS Time-Machine project. Definitely would like to see Tomb Raider working 😀

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 13 of 16, by vetz

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

That's great to know! I have a Voodoo 2 and might include it in my MS-DOS Time-Machine project. Definitely would like to see Tomb Raider working 😀

There aren't that many DOS Glide games and I could make a Voodoo compatibility matrix. I don't own the Rush, V4 and Banshee, but the V1, V2, V3 and V5 could be tested.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 15 of 16, by Gamecollector

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

That's great to know! I have a Voodoo 2 and might include it in my MS-DOS Time-Machine project. Definitely would like to see Tomb Raider working 😀

Dynamically linked DOS glide games are working with ALL Voodoo cards. Maybe with several minor tweaks (like use only 1 VSA-100).
Statically linked DOS glide games aren't working with Voodoo3/4/5 at all. Examples are: EF 2000: Tactcom, Fatal Racing/Whiplash etc. But AFAIK all such games are working with Voodoo2.
So - I don't see the point to prefer Voodoo1 in the DOS PC.

Reply 16 of 16, by AdamP

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

What about USB? My USB flash drive and USB DVD drive both work on Windows 3.1 (In fact, they both work on Windows 1.01. I haven't tried my camera or smartphone).

Windows 3.1 also works fine on an FAT32 partition.