Well, a Voodoo3 isn't exactly 1995-1997... but the specs sound fine, I would suggest to use 98SE for convenience. Of course some DOS games won't run properly on a machine this fast, maybe this list can give you a few hints as to what games you won't be able to play.

The time period you mention was all about 3D accelerators. DOS was dead at that time.

So if you are trying to build a hybrid machine that does both, it's not going to happen. Too many compromises.

A hybrid machine that covers DOS games and a few early Windows games can be built on ATX form factor Super Socket 7 motherboards.

Here a video a did earlier this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0WtduA2XI

With this computer you can play Wing Commander or Monkey Island but also Tomb Raider with 3DFX Voodoo or 3D games that use Windows 98.

So to help you out better maybe give us an example of a few games you want to play.

Thanks for the video link. I checked Ebay, but I couldn't find a Super Socket 7 board that comes with the cables also. The primary games I want to play are Summer Challenge (1992), Falcon 3.0 (1991), and a few educational games called Outnumbered! (1990) and Oregon Trail (1992 edition). Is it possible to underclock a Pentium 2 so the DOS games would run properly?

What cables are you talking about?

For the time period a Super Socket 7 system or ANY Pentium system for that matter would be perfect. So would a 486 and likely a 386DX.

Aside from the IDE and floppy connectors, maybe any of the extension cable slots (serial, parallel, VGA) that would come with it and an I/O shield. But to be honest, most of the older technology is a bit foreign to me so I'm not sure if the extension cables are even necessary.

I did a bit more research, and found another build I could do with some sacrifices. Would this offer a better gaming experience?

- Intel PR440FX
- Single Pentium Pro 180Mhz, 256K
- 32MB RAM
- Voodoo2 PCI card

The Intel SE440BX has an AGP 1.x slot, but the Intel PR440FX looks to be more of a server board and lacks AGP. 😒

No, WAY too fast.

The games you mention run well on a 386DX or slow 486.

IDE and Floppy ribbon cables are things most of us have "lying around". Of course you can buy them.

Do you want to build an AT or ATX form factor system. Because AT means getting an AT case and all of that.

The other option is just to use DOSBox. Might be easier for you if it's mostly about playing the games rather than playing / fighting with old hardware 😀

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

No, WAY too fast.

Depends on which games he's planning to play. I've had okay stability with most of the 'runtime error' games on a 440LX 66mhz fsb P2 300 - which most definitely is 1997 period hardware.

You can always disable the L2 for approximate 286 speeds 😀

MOVED TO CORRECT FORUM

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

No, WAY too fast. […]
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No, WAY too fast.

The games you mention run well on a 386DX or slow 486.

IDE and Floppy ribbon cables are things most of us have "lying around". Of course you can buy them.

Do you want to build an AT or ATX form factor system. Because AT means getting an AT case and all of that.

The other option is just to use DOSBox. Might be easier for you if it's mostly about playing the games rather than playing / fighting with old hardware 😀

I found a spare ATX case I want to use, so I'll stick with an ATX motherboard. I've narrowed my choices down to 3 configs, would Build 3 be the best option without incurring runtime errors?

Build 1 - Pentium II 233MHz, 32MB RAM, SoundBlaster AWE64, Voodoo2
Build 2 - Pentium II 350MHz, 32MB RAM, SoundBlaster AWE64, Voodoo2
Build 3 - Pentium I 166MHz, 32MB RAM, SoundBlaster AWE64, ATI Rage II (no AGP)

Yes, it would. Pentium 2 and later CPU builds have different compatibility issues, even apart from speed-related ones. Pentium and Pentium Pro builds are somewhat compatible with both older games and newer hardware.

From the other point of view, Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 Slot1 builds are easier to manipulate, because there is no need to use thermal paste and very little risk of damaging CPU and motherboard while installing or uninstalling the CPU.

286, 386 and early 486 systems require neither cooler nor thermal paste (you only should bother of them with DX2-66 or faster 486), but they tend to be less compatible with modern equipment: you need AT case, AT PSU, BIOSes only understand small HDDs, there are issues with using compact flash cards instead of HDD. There are no USB ports, data transferring to/from your retro-build to a modern PC starts to be an issue.

You might want to go Socket 7 Pentium or Socket 8 Pentium Pro build running Windows 98SE. Thus you get USB ports while being still able to run most of legacy games.

Build 3.

Disable L1 cache and you have a 486. Also disable L2 cache and you have a 386.

I think he could better use an ATX socket 7 motherboard.. If you look good you will find something.. Its much harder to build an 386 system or 486 system.. Because:

1. You need an AT-compatible case (i think that would be hard to find in 2013 / almost 2014..
2. A 486 computer is very wanted by people, to find a decent case and motherboard would be a hard task.
3. To setup a 486 computer its more a hassle on jumper settings and other motherboard setting..
4. Its hard to find a low voltage 486 motherboard. Most what you find would do 5 volts only....

5 building a 386 computer would defentily easier, but you need to still look for that hard findable AT compatible case..

Why socket 7 with an ATX case..

1. ATX cases are very unlimited these days.
2. ATX has better power supplys then the cheap AT style ones.
3. A socket 7 board has support from pentium 1 75mhz tell AMD k3 - 600mhz..)
4.ATX build is cheaper to build.. Prices for AT style stuff is rediculous high..

Personally I just buy complete desktops off eBay that cost me $50 - 75 each including shipping. That way I usually have all the parts I like (FDD, HDD, RAM, MOBO, SVGA, PSU et cetera). It also usually means plug & play right away. Sometimes I decide to format the HDD and install DOS 6.22. I then plug in the sound cards I like and I am off and running (a.k.a. playing games). 😀

Building your own system can be a lot of fun as well of course but it probably adds up to be a lot of $. Having multiple machines also makes it easier to just turn it on and play the games you like. I use QuikMenu and then it is just a matter of hitting the key and the desired game starts. 😁

Currently I have the following systems setup:
IBM PS/2 Model 80 8086: NEC V30, 2X3.5 DS/DD FDD, 8 BIT VGA, 640KB RAM, CT1320 (with CMS), LAPC-I (connects to PS/VP 486 HDD through LapLink to load games) & MCB-1 (with FB-01)
Leading Technology AT5000: 80286 12MHZ, 1MB RAM, 40MB HDD, CT1690 and S-MPU-AT (with MT-32)
IBM PS/VP 486DX/S: Pentium Overdrive 60MHZ, 16MB RAM, S3 Virge VLB (on MOBO), Roland RAP-10 and CT1600, 360MB HDD

This configuration allows me to play different games from the various eras. 😀

Thank you all for your help. I've already obtained a copy of DOS 6 and Win 3.1, now I'm looking for a copy of Win 95. Since I can't find a full retail version, I'm going to buy an "upgrade" edition. Is there an easy way to tell if it's the latest 2.1 release that supports FAT32 and AGP? One copy is part number X03-56145 and another is 362-00243.

PeterLI wrote:

Currently I have the following systems setup:
IBM PS/2 Model 80 8086

On a separate note, Is this a good buy? I don't mind having two machines to tinker with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161147487739?ssPageNa … 984.m1438.l2649

It's fair, depending on whether it doesn't boot because the hard disk is wiped, or because it's bad. The WDI-325 is an MFM drive, IIRC. So you'd have to get an IDE controller for it to replace the hard disk. Fortunately, this is an ISA PS/2, not an MCA, which makes that not too hard.

Personally, I strongly favor the Tandy 1000 series for early PC gaming. You want that 16 color Tandy video mode and 3 voice sound. Which Tandy to pick is a topic that deserves a thread of its own.

PeterLI wrote:

Personally I just buy complete desktops off eBay that cost me $50 - 75 each including shipping

So true. Usually works out cheaper and less stressful than building yourself. I still like OEM machines although they often have riser slots. But they almost always come with PS/2 ports, have parity memory and are super stable.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

PeterLI wrote:

Personally I just buy complete desktops off eBay that cost me $50 - 75 each including shipping

So true. Usually works out cheaper and less stressful than building yourself. I still like OEM machines although they often have riser slots. But they almost always come with PS/2 ports, have parity memory and are super stable.

I would have to agree also, but I think I'm up for the challenge. 😀

This is a good deal with a K6 included? I've always bought new motherboards in the past so I'm not sure what to expect with a used purchase except for possible stability issues if it was abused.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251275943005?ssPageNa … 984.m1438.l2649

Yes that's a great board and the price is fair.

swhockey98 wrote:

On a separate note, Is this a good buy? I don't mind having two machines to tinker with. http://www.ebay.com/itm/161147487739?ssPageNa … 984.m1438.l2649

These are pretty cool machines. There are issues with these machines. 1) The FDDs are prone to failure and replacements are very hard to come by / expensive. You can only replace these with IBM PS/2 8530 8086 or IBM PS/2 8525 8086 FDDs. The same applies to the HDDs. I had to buy a replacement 8530 for $70 (including shipping) to get 2 replacement FDDs. I am watching this particular unit on eBay as well (for the FDD & HDD). I sent the seller a floppy disk with MS-DOS so he can try and boot from the FDD.

Another challenge is the MCGA: I like to play games in MCGA because it is basically 320*200 VGA and lots of games support it natively. However: MCGA requires a CRT usually because so far I have not been able to hook up a LCD/TFT/LED that recognizes the MCGA signal. The native 8086 CPU is also very slow. I upgraded my 8530 8086 with a NEC V30 (power charged 8086) and a 8 BIT VGA card as well (so I can play VGA / EGA games). MCGA does not support EGA so you cannot play EGA only games on a 8530 8086: it will default to CGA in most cases. 😁

Hatta wrote:

It's fair, depending on whether it doesn't boot because the hard disk is wiped, or because it's bad. The WDI-325 is an MFM drive, IIRC. So you'd have to get an IDE controller for it to replace the hard disk. Fortunately, this is an ISA PS/2, not an MCA, which makes that not too hard.
Personally, I strongly favor the Tandy 1000 series for early PC gaming. You want that 16 color Tandy video mode and 3 voice sound. Which Tandy to pick is a topic that deserves a thread of its own.

It would be nice to get a Tandy 1000 with the goodies. There is one for $300 on LI, NY but that is too much. I am also not sure it has all the goodies.

Putting an IDE / RLL / MFM that is generic (e.g. not the IBM proprietary: you can only connect proprietary HDDs to the 8530 as far as I know) takes up one of only 3 ISA 8 BIT slots. When you want to install VGA, LAN and a sound card you are running out of options fast. The interesting thing about this 8530 8086 is that the HDD FRU 72X7568 is not included in the hardware maintenance manual (http://ibm-pc.org/manuals/ibm/ps2/ps2-hmm.pdf). This HDD is an ESDI BTW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Small_Disk_Interface). ESDI HDDs are typically expensive on eBay. This reseller has them for sale relatively cheap: http://www.acsparts.com/72X7568-DESKTOP.html. They have lots of cool stuff. I may have to buy some stuff in honor of my birthday. 😈