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DX9 GPU prices

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First post, by maximus

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Looking around on eBay for high-end DX9 GPUs, most prices are very reasonable. Nice cards from the GeForce 6, GeForce 7, Radeon X800, and Radeon X1K series can be had for around $30.

Then I look at Radeon 9800 cards, and they're all $50 or $60. What's up with that? I'm certain that the 9800 Pro and XT are not better than later DX9 Radeons. There is nothing particularly exciting about them, yet people seem to think they are worth good money.

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Reply 1 of 42, by vetz

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I bought myself a fully boxed GTX295 for 80 dollars, so I'm set for the oncoming DX9 retro phase 😀

They will probably go even more down in price, but now they are in plentiful supplies and it was an upgrade for my little brother (he was still using ATI Radeon HD 4850 in his computer)

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Reply 3 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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Retro prices are like a single wave on a timeline. There is a low and parts from that period are cheap and plentiful. IMO we are looking at Pentium 4 motherboards and CPUs. Cheaps as chips. But look at older or newer stuff (Pentium III and Core 2 Duo) and prices go up.

Same goes for graphics cards although I'm not sure where the low really is. I would say around the 6600GT and 7600GT. Not that useful cards for anyone building something recent and retro as well. But the Radeon 9700 / 9800 has always had a cult status. It dethroned Nvidia for a short while and will always be a sought after card.

Cards that are affordable are the mainstream / value cards. GeForce4 Ti 4200, GeForce 6600GT, GeForce 8800GT and it's many spin-off cards, GeForce 9600GT, which is often overlooked but almost as fast as the 8800GT.

$30 is still too much for these cards. Maybe you're looking at buy now auctions. Even here in Australia I got many of these cards for minimum bids as they of no good to most people. I just try to get in early, secure what I want, before the DX9 retro tsunami starts happening 😀

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Reply 4 of 42, by obobskivich

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maximus wrote:

Looking around on eBay for high-end DX9 GPUs, most prices are very reasonable. Nice cards from the GeForce 6, GeForce 7, Radeon X800, and Radeon X1K series can be had for around $30.

Then I look at Radeon 9800 cards, and they're all $50 or $60. What's up with that? I'm certain that the 9800 Pro and XT are not better than later DX9 Radeons. There is nothing particularly exciting about them, yet people seem to think they are worth good money.

Historical significance, plain and simple. The Radeon 9800Pro and XT were *very* popular when they were new because of both their status as a "GeForce killer" and also their overclockability - in both cases I don't think that reputation is fairly earned by the 9800 series, as much of the "Radeon is awesome" popularity was earned by the 9500 and 9700 boards a year earlier.

There are other cards that experience a similar phenomenon, like 3dfx boards - is a Voodoo2 really worth $60? Or a Voodoo5 worth $100+? 🤣

As far as performance competitiveness; the high-end Radeon 9s are roughly competitive to GeForce 6600GT.

As far as what you should buy - it comes down to your goals for the system: do you want a certain level of performance/features, or do you want a specific part for collector/historic reasons?

If it were me, I'd get a 9700 if historical/collector reasons were driving the purchase. If I just wanted flat-out performance/compatibility for DX9, get a GeForce 7800/7900 or Radeon X1800/1900.

Reply 5 of 42, by sliderider

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I've seen Dell XPS 7950 GX2 cards for $45 already. It might seem like a lot of money for a DX9 card, but with what they cost new, how many do you really think are out there? And what other pure DX9 card is even going to come close to it in performance? Not the Radeon x1950XTX. That falls about 20% slower than a 7950 GX2 in some games. I think $45 is probably going to be rock bottom for these for a while and then they will start to inch back up in price when people realize they are collectible. Even if you were to SLi/Crossfire any two other cards from that time period, it would still cost you more than $45 so the 7950 GX2 looks like a bargain. I'm tempted to stash away a few of these for future resale while they are still reasonably priced.

Reply 6 of 42, by d1stortion

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I'd still prefer an X1950 XTX to a 7950 GX2. Multi-GPU issues and all that. R5xx could also do MSAA+HDR at the same time so it can be argued that ATi had a slight tech advantage in that particular gen.

Been meaning to get one of these for a while, but always seem to miss the cheap ones 🤣 though since I got my current 660 I've slightly lost interest in D3D9 GPUs. All the D3D9 games I've tried so far work fine and it's nice to be able to play them with supersampling. With games targeting that DX9.0c spec still being rather prevalent even when it comes to current releases I can't see them breaking driver support for that any time soon. Pre-DX9 and old OpenGL can be another story though...

Reply 7 of 42, by Shagittarius

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maximus wrote:

Looking around on eBay for high-end DX9 GPUs, most prices are very reasonable. Nice cards from the GeForce 6, GeForce 7, Radeon X800, and Radeon X1K series can be had for around $30.

Then I look at Radeon 9800 cards, and they're all $50 or $60. What's up with that? I'm certain that the 9800 Pro and XT are not better than later DX9 Radeons. There is nothing particularly exciting about them, yet people seem to think they are worth good money.

Maybe it has something to do with the 9800 being the last ATI card that supports Windows 98? I think that's where the support ends for that.

Much like how the Nvidia 5xxx series is the last to really fully support Win 98 AND older drivers. Sure you can put a 6xxx series in a Win 98 machine but you lose the ability to use the old detonator drivers with those.

Reply 8 of 42, by obobskivich

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sliderider wrote:

I've seen Dell XPS 7950 GX2 cards for $45 already. It might seem like a lot of money for a DX9 card, but with what they cost new, how many do you really think are out there? And what other pure DX9 card is even going to come close to it in performance? Not the Radeon x1950XTX. That falls about 20% slower than a 7950 GX2 in some games. I think $45 is probably going to be rock bottom for these for a while and then they will start to inch back up in price when people realize they are collectible. Even if you were to SLi/Crossfire any two other cards from that time period, it would still cost you more than $45 so the 7950 GX2 looks like a bargain. I'm tempted to stash away a few of these for future resale while they are still reasonably priced.

Before you go off buying every available 7950GX2 out there, remember that they are *not* universally compatible with PCIe motherboards and *will* have issues with various motherboards, rendering them unusable/incompatible and the issues are all over the place in terms of how they present (you can get anything/everything from no-boot, visual corruption, random BSoDs, etc). The X1950XTX and 7900GTX are much more consistent and will work in basically anything with a PCIe slot and enough power (especially in the case of the X1950XTX). nVidia still maintains a "GX2 compatibility chart" on their website, although it hasn't been updated very recently so it shouldn't be considered the end-word in GX2 compatibility, but by and large I'd stick to that list or close derivatives thereof if you want to ensure that your GX2 will play nice. There are motherboards that are newer than the GX2 that do not work with them as well, so this isn't just an "old boards have problems" or "boards with XYZ chipset have problems" kind of thing - it's a GX2 thing.

And on top of that you also have all of the issues associated with early-generation SLI, like incompatibility with multi-monitor setups, and the micro-stutter phenomenon. Scaling is also not guaranteed, and there are situations where a 7900GTX can be a more attractive option. I honestly doubt their pricing is going to "skyrocket" as a result - they're finicky, power hungry boards that are quirky to live with at best, and a royal mess to deal with at worst.

This isn't to diminish the significance of the 7950GX2 historically, but they are very-much "first generation" products with all of the woes and pitfalls that go with that. If you want a multi-GPU card that more or less "just works" look at the later AMD and nVidia boards, like the GTX 295 or HD 5970.

Reply 10 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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7800GTX 512 and 7900GTX are awesome cards. But what's wrong with 9600GT or 8800GT for DX9 games? Are there major driver issues or other incompatibilities?

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Reply 11 of 42, by nforce4max

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

7800GTX 512 and 7900GTX are awesome cards. But what's wrong with 9600GT or 8800GT for DX9 games? Are there major driver issues or other incompatibilities?

Next to none at all but the most current DX11 cards have been reported to have driver related issues with dx9 titles.

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Reply 12 of 42, by ratfink

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smeezekitty wrote:

DirectX 9 isn't vintage.
Modern cards play DX8/DX9 no problem at all

Even my $60 Radeon 6670 should beat a GTX265

i was thinking that too, plus geforce 7/8/9 ha solder issues

nforce4max wrote:
Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

7800GTX 512 and 7900GTX are awesome cards. But what's wrong with 9600GT or 8800GT for DX9 games? Are there major driver issues or other incompatibilities?

Next to none at all but the most current DX11 cards have been reported to have driver related issues with dx9 titles.

is there a starting point for dx8 and/or dx9 problems?

Reply 13 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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I do remember various issues related to drivers. There was one issue with Battlefield 2142, AA and something not working when AA was enabled. But I can't remember the details. And under XP, there was issue with a 9600GT and Bioshock. The game would stutter like crazy, you had to use an older driver.

There are likely more but using a different driver version is nothing new. Just gets tricky when it's about a game that was released before a certain graphics card.

There was also a period when everything started going DX10 by enabling a few features here and there.

Games such as Doom 3 or Farcry IMO need a card like the 8800GT to run really smooth at 1080P. But as always this is subjective and just my personal preference.

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Reply 14 of 42, by Standard Def Steve

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I bought an AGP 6800GT for $10.79 on ebay just a few days ago. Didn't even have to pay for shipping because the seller was local.

Even though I had one already, I just couldn't pass up such a deal. Who knows, this one might even work properly in my VIA chipsetted PIII-S rig and give me fast 2D and stable 3D. Yeah, probably not. 🤣

Last edited by Standard Def Steve on 2014-04-15, 18:28. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 42, by Totempole

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maximus wrote:

Then I look at Radeon 9800 cards, and they're all $50 or $60. What's up with that? I'm certain that the 9800 Pro and XT are not better than later DX9 Radeons. There is nothing particularly exciting about them, yet people seem to think they are worth good money.

I bought 2 Dell Radeon 9700 TX's a couple of years ago for about $30 for both including shipping on eBay. I later obtained a 9800 XT locally for $15. I bought them for Windows 98 compatibility. Like Shagittarius said, maybe that's why they're worth so much.

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Reply 16 of 42, by swaaye

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Yeah I'm not aware of any problems with D3D9 games on modern cards. There are a few D3D8 games that are trouble though.

I'm sure Radeon 9800 costs more because of people caught up on nostalgia for it. I imagine both demand and pricing are based on that nostalgia. You're usually better off with something from NV for game compatibility though.

Reply 17 of 42, by smeezekitty

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That is not to say newer drivers don't break older games.

For example the sims 2 shadow bug (I have experienced this personally): http://simswiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help … gle_Sim_Shadows
NVidia and AMD released a driver update that broke the game in exactly the same way which seems unbelievable .

But that has nothing to do with the card since this person had the problem with a 9500GT http://forum.livingsims.net/showthread.php?tid=6318

Now AGP cards I would consider vintage or atleast retro. But for PCI-E systems, you are probably better off just buying a recent generation card

Reply 18 of 42, by obobskivich

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ratfink wrote:

is there a starting point for dx8 and/or dx9 problems?

DX8 I don't know - I think Windows 7 (Vista too?) breaks more for DX8 than any new hardware does; for example IME Radeon HD 4870X2 had no problems with DX7/8 titles when run under Windows XP, however under 64-bit Windows 7 a lot of those same titles break or have problems.

DX9 - I've yet to come across a game that doesn't work right under XP *or* Vista/7 on modern hardware.

As far as Radeon 6670 beating a "GTX 265" (there is no such thing; I'm assuming you either meant GTX 260 or GTX 285 or 295) - I'd be somewhat skeptical. The GTX 260 and GTX 260 Core216 are considerably faster on paper, the 285 and 295 are even better than that. Here you go:
http://www.hwcompare.com/10744/geforce-gtx-26 … on-hd-6670-oem/
http://www.hwcompare.com/10742/geforce-gtx-26 … on-hd-6670-oem/
http://www.hwcompare.com/10739/geforce-gtx-28 … on-hd-6670-oem/
http://www.hwcompare.com/10721/geforce-gtx-29 … on-hd-6670-oem/

Since around 2006 (GeForce 8 ) the overall gains between generations of graphics hardware have been very small outside of improvements in GPU computing and power consumption (and mid-range/entry-level cards have been hit hardest by this - I think the new nVidia 750 is the first mid-range card that's actually pushed the envelope in terms of performance in a number of years). Cards like the GTX 285 are still very formidable, as long as you don't need the latest in DX11 or GPGPU support (and can deal with their power consumption). I would assume most of the "broken features" with games from the early Naughties to present are probably more the result of operating system incompatibility or driver foul-ups than anything not being supported/covered by hardware. That said, with the exception of some very late DirectX 9 games (like Skyrim), most modern (high end) cards (like say, GTX 780) are total overkill for DX8/9 class games - I remember reviewers used to use FEAR up until recently, and cards from even a few years ago could often run that game well into the 200 FPS range... 🤣

Reply 19 of 42, by smeezekitty

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Ok maybe I overstated a bit.
I ran 3dmark vantage 1.02 on the performance preset and my 6670 scored about 4K
Compare to this:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/W/B/176123/origi … 95_chart-12.png

Although my CPU was bottlenecking because I saw it 100% is many of the tests

Still it isn't hard for even a midrange modern GPU to beat a high end old GPU