VOGONS


Getting some old hardware....

Topic actions

First post, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Hey all.
I will be getting me some old hardware, and I would like to get a comment on what and if there is any issues, that I should be aware of, when I start building a old retro MS-Dos machine.

The motherboard: FIC-PA-2013 with 2 megabyte of cache and a cpu (somewhat between P1-133 and K6-2-500).
3 memmory modules (32 to 128 megabyte).
And a active cooled agp video card. (I have a matrox passive cooled if this one fail's).

The atx-case, drives and cables are not what I need, so I will not be getting those.

Now.... What, if any, issues are there regarding this mobo?
Just that I can be aware, when setting up my retro machine. 😀

Fic-Board-KabinetStikkene.jpg

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 1 of 53, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I never fiddled with that particular board myself, but didn't these boards support 256MB (double sided) memory modules?
Also I read many times people having problems with these VIA chipsets but again, no first hand experience.

And if you're not using a K6-III or K6+, then the maximum cacheable area will be determined by the motherboard (probably 128MB or 256MB, maybe 512MB in your case since your board has 2M cache).

If you're building a DOS machine out of those components, then iirc DOS had issues with over 64MB of RAM, so a single PC-100 64MB module should be sufficient (I am not a DOS guru though so I don't know the details).

Do you also have a HSF that fits your board? Most Super 7 boards had all kinds of components around the CPU socket, limiting the size of the HSF that will fit (may not apply to your particular board though).

Edit: And what PSU are you gonna be using? If it is a PSU with a single 24p power connector (so not a 20p+4p thingy) then you may have trouble fitting your connector, again since some motherboard component may be blocking the 4 extra pin part of the power connector coming from the PSU

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 2 of 53, by Anonymous Coward

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

If I recall correctly, the PA 2013 was more or less the ATX version of the FIC VA 503+.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 3 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Tetrium:
Well... I think that the seller will ship with aprox 128 megabyte of memmory. All three slots populated.
Never the less, as 2x64 megs are 128, and it ships with 3 modules. Then memmory issues are nothing but removing a couple of modules.
The psu is no problem at all. I have a old 300 watt with the first atx power-plug. (20pin)

My mother and father have an old p1-133 mhz computer. It is dead.
Non the less, it has a p1-133 and cpu's are less likely to die off in my experience.
Probably the most hardcore component of all, in a computer.
I know that this machine, contains a lot of old stuff, that i might be needing.
That would be stuff such as a old isa soundcard, isa gfx card and some old memmory.
They allso have an old compaq presario (late 90's) somewhere.
The old "apple" semi transparent blue colour, wich might also contain some isa soundcard.

Else...
I have an old GUS-ACE card. That is actually why I will be using a board with two isa slots.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 4 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I might get a old hightower case for the price of a working Asrock P4V88, P4-478-3Ghz cpu and 512 megabyte of memory, a agp card and a dvd drive.
Only if the seller is willing to trade. He's got 2 hightowers with psu, for the price of a little under 20 us-dollars or 13 euro so to speak. 😀
I have proposed him to give me one hightower, if I could be allowed to build him a complete working system in the other hightower case.
(harddrive excluded of course, as I never give out harddrives)

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 5 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Tetrium wrote:

Also I read many times people having problems with these VIA chipsets but again, no first hand experience.

I used to have a Gigabyte Ga5AX board back in the late 90's or was it the early 00's.
Shure it was utterley slow running XP. Besides that. It have been the most stable system I ever owned in my life.
Sadly I sold it in 2003. Sadly....

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 7 of 53, by AlphaWing

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hi, New here.
I have this same exact board, acquired 2 of them NIB recently. A 1mb version and a 2mb. Updated the Bios on both so they can see the K6-2+ 500 I put in them.
The 1mb board ruined itself after 1 run of 3dmark 2000 not even a complete run.
It had a voodoo 3 3000 AGP in it at the time.
Those little chips near under the agp card near the coin battery.... Well I've never seen this happen before, but after that 3dmark run there is a hole clear through one of the chips that was not their before.
I think they are voltage regulators?
That board won't post now at all, and the 2mb Version is completely unstable with every AGP video card I've tried putting in the AGP slot. From a Riva 128 ZX, to a Radeon 9800 pro. Most of the time won't make it through a single 3dmark run without hard locking in 99, 2000, 2001 No matter what AGP settings I try in the Bios.
I'm afraid the same thing is gonna happen to the 2mb board it if I leave a AGP card in it.
Is it a defect with these boards? Does anyone have any experience with them?

Reply 8 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

It is 16 megabyte according to the seller. Does not matter that much to me, as I will be running pure dos.
Not win98, even though the seller is taking it out of a fully functioning win98 machine.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 9 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
AlphaWing wrote:
Hi, New here. I have this same exact board, acquired 2 of them NIB recently. A 1mb version and a 2mb. Updated the Bios on both s […]
Show full quote

Hi, New here.
I have this same exact board, acquired 2 of them NIB recently. A 1mb version and a 2mb. Updated the Bios on both so they can see the K6-2+ 500 I put in them.
The 1mb board ruined itself after 1 run of 3dmark 2000 not even a complete run.
It had a voodoo 3 3000 AGP in it at the time.
Those little chips near under the agp card near the coin battery.... Well I've never seen this happen before, but after that 3dmark run there is a hole clear through one of the chips that was not their before.
I think they are voltage regulators?
That board won't post now at all, and the 2mb Version is completely unstable with every AGP video card I've tried putting in the AGP slot. From a Riva 128 ZX, to a Radeon 9800 pro. Most of the time won't make it through a single 3dmark run without hard locking in 99, 2000, 2001 No matter what AGP settings I try in the Bios.
I'm afraid the same thing is gonna happen to the 2mb board it if I leave a AGP card in it.
Is it a defect with these boards? Does anyone have any experience with them?

I think the problem is the voltage of the AGPx1 versus AGP-X2/X4.
I can not recall if it will toast the board or the card, or if the problem is running first gfx-cards on later boards or later cards on AGP-x1 boards.
The only thing is, never run later agp's with first agp's. Mobo's or cards. (or the other way around)

EDIT:
I think U need to turn the last working board, into a more pure retro rig now.
U might wan't to run PCI gfx card's from now on. This might be a better choise if wanting to make a more oldschool machine.
I remember that my old gigabyte had AGPx1 slot, and that was terrible slow.
Even some PCI gfx cards were better in Win98 and WinXP than the TNT2 I had at that time.
Remembering now, that I used to know if it was AGPx1 or AGP-X2/X4 by looking after this "lock" in the rear of the AGP-Slot.
If missing (not shipped by standard), it was AGP-X1. If it had a "lock", then it was the later AGP versions.

Last edited by brostenen on 2014-06-02, 16:10. Edited 1 time in total.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 10 of 53, by AlphaWing

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I've orderd a geforce 5500 PCI just to be safe for the 2mb board.
Its still strange the 1mb board went out that way...
The Voodoo 3 is AGP 1x isn't it?
I think it is?
That was what was in it when it failed.
Trying to get a picture of it but my camera Blurs it when I try to get close to those 2 chips.
They are the ones right in line with the AGP slot Right next to the Coil sitting next to the Coin battery.

Reply 11 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
AlphaWing wrote:
I've orderd a geforce 5500 PCI just to be safe for the 2mb board. Its still strange the 1mb board went out that way... The Vood […]
Show full quote

I've orderd a geforce 5500 PCI just to be safe for the 2mb board.
Its still strange the 1mb board went out that way...
The Voodoo 3 is AGP 1x isn't it?
I think it is?
That was what was in it when it failed.
Trying to get a picture of it but my camera Blurs it when I try to get close to those 2 chips.
They are the ones right in line with the AGP slot Right next to the Coil sitting next to the Coin battery.

I don't recall Voodoo3, shipped as PCI ever. Only AGP.
I still "dream" of a cheap Voodoo2 PCI, or possibly someone giving me one for free. Ohh well.... 😁

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 12 of 53, by LunarG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
brostenen wrote:
I used to have a Gigabyte Ga5AX board back in the late 90's or was it the early 00's. Shure it was utterley slow running XP. Bes […]
Show full quote
Tetrium wrote:

Also I read many times people having problems with these VIA chipsets but again, no first hand experience.

I used to have a Gigabyte Ga5AX board back in the late 90's or was it the early 00's.
Shure it was utterley slow running XP. Besides that. It have been the most stable system I ever owned in my life.
Sadly I sold it in 2003. Sadly....

Agreed. They can be really stable with the right setup and drivers installed.
I used to have a Via MVP3 system back in the days, and never had any more problems with that than with any other system I've owned. I've got a Via MVP3 system now as well, with same type of motherboard, except with 1MB cache vs. 512KB back in the days, and it works just fine. To be honest, when it came to SS7 boards, I remember most of the reviews back then saying that the Via MVP3 chipset was the one to go for.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 13 of 53, by LunarG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
brostenen wrote:
AlphaWing wrote:
I've orderd a geforce 5500 PCI just to be safe for the 2mb board. Its still strange the 1mb board went out that way... The Vood […]
Show full quote

I've orderd a geforce 5500 PCI just to be safe for the 2mb board.
Its still strange the 1mb board went out that way...
The Voodoo 3 is AGP 1x isn't it?
I think it is?
That was what was in it when it failed.
Trying to get a picture of it but my camera Blurs it when I try to get close to those 2 chips.
They are the ones right in line with the AGP slot Right next to the Coil sitting next to the Coin battery.

I don't recall Voodoo3, shipped as PCI ever. Only AGP.
I still "dream" of a cheap Voodoo2 PCI, or possibly someone giving me one for free. Ohh well.... 😁

Sure you could get Voodoo 3 PCI. At least the Voodoo 3 2000.

Last edited by LunarG on 2014-06-02, 16:24. Edited 1 time in total.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 14 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
LunarG wrote:

Sure you could get Voodoo 3 PCI. At last the Voodoo 3 2000.

Thanks for the info. 😀 Just an awfull lot of years since I have owned lagacy hardware.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 15 of 53, by AlphaWing

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
brostenen wrote:
LunarG wrote:

Sure you could get Voodoo 3 PCI. At last the Voodoo 3 2000.

Thanks for the info. 😀 Just an awful lot of years since I have owned legacy hardware.

I'd go for another V3 PCI, but I have a few other machines with them in it already.
I suggest not using the AGP slot, on the board I'm not gonna risk the other board.
I still can't believe how the board went out.
NIB unopened still in packaging never used, must of been defective from the start.
Wish I could get a non blurry picture, but my dumb Kodak camera will not focus on those small chips. 😠

Reply 16 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
LunarG wrote:

Agreed. They can be really stable with the right setup and drivers installed.
I used to have a Via MVP3 system back in the days, and never had any more problems with that than with any other system I've owned. I've got a Via MVP3 system now as well, with same type of motherboard, except with 1MB cache vs. 512KB back in the days, and it works just fine. To be honest, when it came to SS7 boards, I remember most of the reviews back then saying that the Via MVP3 chipset was the one to go for.

Now. Looking back in time. I just realised, that the FIC-PA-2013 and the Gigabyte GA-5AX is allmost identical.
Just a little more cache on the Fic, and an extra ISA on the Gigabyte. Mmm.... Nice.

I remember people bitching about how slow, and how unstable Win98 were. And I remember people that owned Intel chipset boards, telling me to sell the gigabyte and buy a P2 system with intel 440bx. I allso recall, that I was pusseled by the fact, that even though my system was really slow, it ran Win98 without a problem and without any errors for weeks at times. My friends rebooted once a day. That was some really stable hardware I had back then.
That was some good old day's back then.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 17 of 53, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
AlphaWing wrote:

Wish I could get a non blurry picture, but my dumb Kodak camera will not focus on those small chips. 😠

Have the same problem. The only camera that does take decent pictures like this, is the one in my trusty Samsung Galaxy s3 Mini.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 18 of 53, by AlphaWing

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

If you haven't updated the bios on yours, its still available just really hidden on Fics FTP.
And gonna use a K62+ with the 128kb cache you need the beta bios.
It took me awhile to find it, as its not the US site.
ftp://ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/
You need the beta Bios for the K6-2+
JI4333 its called.
Without that bios update both boards were detecting CPU at 16mhz no matter what jumper settings.
Which is interesting, in its own right, as it would boot a floppy to the dos prompt at that slow speed.

Reply 19 of 53, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
brostenen wrote:
Now. Looking back in time. I just realised, that the FIC-PA-2013 and the Gigabyte GA-5AX is allmost identical. Just a little mor […]
Show full quote
LunarG wrote:

Agreed. They can be really stable with the right setup and drivers installed.
I used to have a Via MVP3 system back in the days, and never had any more problems with that than with any other system I've owned. I've got a Via MVP3 system now as well, with same type of motherboard, except with 1MB cache vs. 512KB back in the days, and it works just fine. To be honest, when it came to SS7 boards, I remember most of the reviews back then saying that the Via MVP3 chipset was the one to go for.

Now. Looking back in time. I just realised, that the FIC-PA-2013 and the Gigabyte GA-5AX is allmost identical.
Just a little more cache on the Fic, and an extra ISA on the Gigabyte. Mmm.... Nice.

I remember people bitching about how slow, and how unstable Win98 were. And I remember people that owned Intel chipset boards, telling me to sell the gigabyte and buy a P2 system with intel 440bx. I allso recall, that I was pusseled by the fact, that even though my system was really slow, it ran Win98 without a problem and without any errors for weeks at times. My friends rebooted once a day. That was some really stable hardware I had back then.
That was some good old day's back then.

Yes, Win98 was unstable for me also (at least the one time I had to use 98FE) but ME ran perfectly fine on it.

About the AGP slots, I think you're confused, there is a 1x/2x slot and a 4x slot. The 4x slot doesn't have a notch in it while the 1x/2x slot does. The 8x slot btw also has a notch but in a different position.
The FIX PA-2013 is different from the GA-5AX as the latter doesn't even use a VIA chipset, it uses an Ali instead.

If your modules are 32MB, then make sure you don't up the FSB to 100MHz in case your 32MB modules are PC-66 btw.

And iirc there are in fact Voodoo 3 PCI versions, even a 3000. The only one I never seen is a PCI 3500 variant, so not sure that one exists, but it is very possible that it does.

AlphaWing wrote:
Hi, New here. I have this same exact board, acquired 2 of them NIB recently. A 1mb version and a 2mb. Updated the Bios on both s […]
Show full quote

Hi, New here.
I have this same exact board, acquired 2 of them NIB recently. A 1mb version and a 2mb. Updated the Bios on both so they can see the K6-2+ 500 I put in them.
The 1mb board ruined itself after 1 run of 3dmark 2000 not even a complete run.
It had a voodoo 3 3000 AGP in it at the time.
Those little chips near under the agp card near the coin battery.... Well I've never seen this happen before, but after that 3dmark run there is a hole clear through one of the chips that was not their before.
I think they are voltage regulators?
That board won't post now at all, and the 2mb Version is completely unstable with every AGP video card I've tried putting in the AGP slot. From a Riva 128 ZX, to a Radeon 9800 pro. Most of the time won't make it through a single 3dmark run without hard locking in 99, 2000, 2001 No matter what AGP settings I try in the Bios.
I'm afraid the same thing is gonna happen to the 2mb board it if I leave a AGP card in it.
Is it a defect with these boards? Does anyone have any experience with them?

That is really odd, especially the way your 1MB board got fried. Perhaps it was defective in a way, but you mentioned you flashed a new BIOS in there (can't tell if the 2 events are related though).

For the rest, I really don't know if it is a defect with your particular FIC boards or with that specific model in general. I do recall the earlier AGP boards had all kinds of issues with their AGP slots and the way they provided power to the AGP cards, so perhaps it is that problem?
What revisions are your boards?
Have you tried your Voodoo 3 in another board btw?

Edit: Lemme check the chip btw, I "think" I actually have a PA-2013 1MB board in my collection. Can't remember if I ever tried it though 🤣

Last edited by Tetrium on 2014-06-02, 16:59. Edited 1 time in total.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!