Depending on the motherboard, use the Athlon 1200 and the GF4 Ti video card. Use NVIDIA Detonator drivers v45.23. You'll get best performance and compatibility with those choices.

Again, depending on your motherboard choice, you could also consider the P3 866. Although, I would recommend bumping it up to a P3 1000 if it's an i815E system.

What motherboard do you intend to use?

If you'll be playing DOS games, you'll want AWE64 Value sound card if you're on a budget. AWE64 Gold if you've got extra cash.

If you aren't going to play DOS games, get a SB Live! sound card. CT4830 is cheap, sounds good, and works fine with LiveWare 3.0.

By the way: I wouldn't recommend running XP with any of these configuration choices. It'll be a dog and any game that would run under XP with these specs would also run under Win98SE as well. There's no good reason to run XP with this system.

If you want a cheap XP legacy box, just find a used P4 or Athlon 64 on craigslist and build it out with a GF6 or GF7 series card. If you've got extra cash, consider a C2D or Athlon II X2 and build it up with a GF8 or GF9 series card. You can build a legacy XP box for very little nowadays just by finding used OEM systems on craigslist. I'm thinking $100, tops, for a pretty nice XP machine.

KT7AGuy could not have explained it better. I share his opinion.

KT7AGuy wrote:

By the way: I wouldn't recommend running XP with any of these configuration choices. It'll be a dog and any game that would run under XP with these specs would also run under Win98SE as well. There's no good reason to run XP with this system.

Stability? I wouldn't run games on 98SE if they can run on XP as well. 98SE is for the games that won't run on NT based OSes.

My pick would be the Athlon and GF4Ti, paired with 512MB RAM. Preferably with an ISA slot if you want to run DOS as well (like a KT7 or KT7A 😊 )

Thanks!

I haven't bought a motherboard either. It depends on what is available on eBay for a good value. Concerning the performance, are the Athlon 1200 and Pentium III 1000 MHz on the same level?

Currently, a Coopermine (Slot 1 or Socket 370) motherboard would be easier to purchase.

The AWE 64 Gold and AWE 64 Value are quite on the same price level as far as I can see.

The Soundblaster Live! 1024 was actually my first choice, but if the AWE64 is fully compatible with DOS games under Windows 98 SE I'd prefer this one.

Considering that I intend to play games with this system from ~ 1996 until ~ 2002, Windows XP might be rather the wrong choice. On the other hand it's better compatible with any hardware configurations and more stable.

Games from that period can be incompatible with XP... and XP is also not that good at running DOS stuff. If its a gaming machine you'll probably install little other than games, so Windows 98 SE will probably be sufficiently stable anyway.

BTW for DOS stuff (specially if you're not gonna run them inside Windows, but rather on plain DOS) avoid PCI sound cards whenever possible.

Mr.Blade wrote:

I haven't bought a motherboard either. It depends on what is available on eBay for a good value. Concerning the performance, are the Athlon 1200 and Pentium III 1000 MHz on the same level?

The Athlon 1200 outperforms the P3 1000 by a pretty significant margin. The Athlon 1400 is even more powerful, but runs very hot. Choose your HSF carefully if you run an Athlon.

Mr.Blade wrote:

Currently, a Coopermine (Slot 1 or Socket 370) motherboard would be easier to purchase.

Definitely get the socket 370 Coppermine-compatible board.

I'm a big fan of ABIT KT7A boards, but I recognize and acknowledge that VIA systems can be a bit flaky. I run Athlon 1400s in three of them, so I'm also familiar with just how high the TDP is on that CPU. Here is why I like these KT7A systems:

- ISA slot means I can run an AWE64 for pure/true DOS games compatibility.
- Athlon 1400 smokes any P3 CPU except for the Tualatin 1400.
- KT7A v1.3 boards can take an Athlon XP 2100+ while still retaining the ISA slot.

Here is why I wouldn't recommend a KT7A system:
- KT7A v1.0 is flaky with more than 512MB of RAM and NVIDIA cards newer than GF4. (KT7A v1.2 and v1.3 don't seem to have these problems).
- Known problems with SB Live! PCI cards on all KT7A versions.
- VIA chipsets just aren't as stable and easy to work with as Intel.
- Installing VIA chipset drivers is slightly more complex than Intel.
- Athlon CPUs use more than double the power of a P3.
- Athlon CPUs run much hotter than P3.
- You must choose a PSU carefully. The +5V rail needs to be strong.
- It can be difficult to find a good PSU for an Athlon system. (Rosewill RV350 is a good choice).

Here is why I would recommend an i815E system for a Coppermine:
- Cheap
- Stable
- Rock solid
- Easy to install chipset drivers.
- Lower power consumption.
- Runs much cooler than Athlon systems.
- Modern PSUs still work well in these systems. (Antec BP350 is a great choice).

Here is why I wouldn't recommend an i815E system:
- Slower than comparable Athlon. P3 1000 is the limit.
- Not as many ISA options. You're probably limited to a PCI sound card.

Ideally, you use an Asus TUSL2-C and run a Tualatin 1400 for max performance and compatibility. Unfortunately, Tualatin-compatible boards can be somewhat difficult to find.

For pre-20002 gaming, you can't go wrong with a Coppermine P3 1000. Get a GF4 Ti4200 and you'll be all set.
(Yes, I know that the Ti4400 and Ti4600 are much faster. I just don't think you'll see much better performance in a P3 1000 system. Also, Ti4200 uses less power and runs much cooler.)

Mr.Blade wrote:

The AWE 64 Gold and AWE 64 Value are quite on the same price level as far as I can see.

Definitely get the AWE64 Gold if you have an ISA slot. In the USA here, the AWE64 Gold is usually alot more expensive. This is why I commented on the AWE64 Value.

I run both the AWE64 Value and Gold versions. I can't tell the difference between them. Then again, I'm also not an audiophile.

Mr.Blade wrote:

The Soundblaster Live! 1024 was actually my first choice, but if the AWE64 is fully compatible with DOS games under Windows 98 SE I'd prefer this one.

It really depends on what you want to focus on. If you're into DOS games, then the AWE64 is the better choice. If you're not so much into DOS games, then the SB Live! is the better choice because it has EAX features.

Just because you run a SB Live! doesn't mean you can't run any DOS games. You're just limited to running them under Win9x. LiveWare 3.0 actually provides pretty good emulation for most DOS games. Nowadays, I'm not so hung up on running PCs with ISA slots and AWE64 cards. SB Live! does a pretty good job of running DOS stuff. Anything the SB Live! can't handle is easily taken care-of with DOSBox.

Also, when choosing a SB Live! card, you must be careful. There were three generations of those cards and only the first two were compatible with LiveWare 3.0. The SB Live! 1024 is not compatible with LiveWare 3.0 and I wouldn't recommend it for a Win9x legacy gaming system.

Mr.Blade wrote:

Considering that I intend to play games with this system from ~ 1996 until ~ 2002, Windows XP might be rather the wrong choice. On the other hand it's better compatible with any hardware configurations and more stable.

It might be more stable and compatible with newer hardware, but it's going to run like crap on a P3. I know, because I dual-boot Win98SE and XP SP3 on my Coppermine P3 1ghz system. While it runs, it's horrible for web browsing with more than two or three windows or tabs open in Pale Moon. YouTube is completely uwatchable without SMPlayer. I really only installed the dual-boot XP so that guests could use it to check their e-mail or whatever. The only advantage that XP has over Win98SE on this system is the web browser. Other than that, it's mostly useless.

For a nice, stable, headache-free system, get the i815E with a P3 1000, GF4 Ti4200, and a SB Live! CT4620 or CT4830. If you like GLIDE games, get a Voodoo 2 in there as well.

My recommendation would be the P3 866 and the Geforce 4

It might be more stable and compatible with newer hardware, but it's going to run like crap on a P3. I know, because I dual-boot Win98SE and XP SP3 on my Coppermine P3 1ghz system. While it runs, it's horrible for web browsing with more than two or three windows or tabs open in Pale Moon. YouTube is completely uwatchable without SMPlayer. I really only installed the dual-boot XP so that guests could use it to check their e-mail or whatever. The only advantage that XP has over Win98SE on this system is the web browser. Other than that, it's mostly useless.

XP shouldn't run badly on a 1GHz P3. How much RAM does it have?

Of those Graphics cards, the Geforce 4 Ti is the most powerful by far... Full DX8 hardware, and a decent XP era card
The GeForce 2 is full DX7 hardware (transform & lighting)
Radeon 7500 - DX7 level, not sure if it's "full"
Matrox G400 supports Environment Mapped Bump Mapping, but its basic DX level is DX6
Riva TNT2 & Rage 128 (Pro) - also DX6

smeezekitty wrote:

XP shouldn't run badly on a 1GHz P3. How much RAM does it have?

Let me rephrase my previous comments. I wouldn't say it runs badly, just very slow once you start up a modern web browser such as Pale Moon. I'm also running XP SP3 with all the updates applied, which doesn't help the situation.

Somebody else here on VOGONS once mentioned that their preferred version of XP for legacy gaming is SP2 without any updates. If I were running that, I would likely revise my previous assessment of XP and say that it would probably run quite well. However, I still fail to see any advantage that XP has over Win98SE for a P3 or Athlon legacy system. In fact, I would think that XP is less compatible for legacy gaming than Win98SE. As alexanrs already mentioned, DOS game compatibility would be limited even further under XP.

Arguments have already been made that XP is more stable and more compatible with hardware. I concur and agree 100%. But I would also add that XP has much higher system requirements and consumes more resources. This isn't going to be somebody's primary everyday general-usage computer system. It's a hobbyists's legacy gaming system. An Intel i815E is already a very stable platform for Win98SE. Hardware incompatibility problems are also eliminated with a little bit of research and/or asking for opinions here on VOGONS.

With a little bit of planning and research, I would argue that Win98SE can be made into a lean, mean, highly stable gaming platform that would greatly outperform XP.

A Pentium III 1000 paired with a GF4 would do great with games like Max Payne, or even a bit newer like Warcraft III, if you end up going with an Athlon based system , it might end up being better just to go with an early Athlon XP system (and the AthlonXPs are pretty cheap , more so than the highest end Athlons). I myself run an Athlon 1400 on a KG7-RAID board, which is very nice, but I will admit Athlon boards can sometimes be a pain due to the VIA chipset.

as for the OS, you could always dual boot , I would recommend Win98 and 2000, which has a lower footprint than XP , and is just as compatible as far as the games you want to run (where 2000 becomes irrelevant is around 2005-6 for games)

A Pentium III 1000 paired with a GF4 would do great with games like Max Payne, or even a bit newer like Warcraft III

This system should handle Warcraft III without breaking a sweat. I remember playing it on a Pentium III 700MHz paired with a Diamond Stealth III (S3 Savage4 Pro, I think), and it ran great.

alexanrs wrote:

A Pentium III 1000 paired with a GF4 would do great with games like Max Payne, or even a bit newer like Warcraft III

This system should handle Warcraft III without breaking a sweat. I remember playing it on a Pentium III 700MHz paired with a Diamond Stealth III (S3 Savage4 Pro, I think), and it ran great.

I ran it on the same CPU , only with a GF2Ti and yeah it ran quite well ,though I will say that at certain situations, the frame rate nosedives into the sub 15fps range. with a decent enough CPU even a Voodoo5500 can run it with all the details set to high, and it will keep its head above 30fps, which isn't bad for what is essentially a very powerful DX6 card.

KT7AGuy wrote:

I run Athlon 1400s in three of them, so I'm also familiar with just how high the TDP is on that CPU.

Do u use 100mhz fsb 1400 Athlons or 133 mhz ones?

Nahkri wrote:

Do u use 100mhz fsb Athlons or 133 mhz ones?

The 133mhz FSB model: A1400AMS3C.

On two of them, I use Thermaltake Volcano 10+ HSFs. Despite their small size, they work well at cooling the CPU. On my other one, I use an Arctic Cooling Copper Lite HSF which works even better. However, I don't like that one because it has an odd way of mounting to the CPU. Its base doesn't make contact with the four rubber bumpers at the corners of the CPU, so I have a feeling it will be easy to crack the die if I'm not careful with it. It also uses a non-standard fan that won't be easy to replace when it fails.

On my Athlon XP 2100+, I use a Spire FalconRock II HSF. This one works very well and is very quiet.

For my P3 Coppermine 1ghz CPU, I use an Antec Twister. This is a cheap knock-off of the classic orb coolers. It isn't anything special and probably isn't a very good cooler either, but I think I only paid $3 for it. It looks cool and it works well enough for a P3 Coppermine. Like I was saying previously, the P3 Coppermine CPUs run cool and this can be a very good reason to choose one over the Athlon. Just about any HSF will work well on them.

Black Friday is coming up and Directron.com is going to have free shipping and discounts. They still have Zalman CNPS6000-AlCu coolers in stock. These are awesome for Athlons and P3s. With these, you can also attach more fans to blow on Voodoo cards. I'm thinking of getting one or two as spares.

I built my four KT7A systems before I had much experience with Coppermines or Tualatins. Now that I have some experience with them, I would always recommend the P3 over the Athlon. They're just so much easier to work with. Considering the time, effort, and expense required to build any legacy system, I feel that a Tualatin 1400 is the overall best choice. However, i815E P3 1ghz systems are certainly cheaper, far more common, and very easily obtained. For example, I just found a Dell Dimension 4100 for $10 today. I haven't picked it up yet, so I don't know what sort of CPU or RAM it has inside it. If it doesn't have a 1ghz CPU in it, I'll just buy one on eBay for ~$7. After I drop RAM, Ti4200, SB Live!, and a USB 2.0 card in it, I'll have a kickass P3 1ghz i815E system for under $50. I'll probably give it to a friend, but even if he doesn't want it I can probably sell it on craigslist for at least $75. See what I mean?

One of my KT7As is a v1.0 RAID board that I don't really like all that much. I'm seriously considering selling it and replacing it with a TUSL2-C and Tualatin 1400.

I can attest to that Zalman cooler being great, I use a similar model that is all copper on an Athlon 1400 133mhz , works really well . The CPU still goes to the mid 50s sometimes when its under load for an hour, but thats kind of the nature of that CPU.

Whats the difference between a KT7A and a KG7-RAID? , both are Abit boards from around the same time.

Darkman wrote:

Whats the difference between a KT7A and a KG7-RAID? , both are Abit boards from around the same time.

They're totally different. Biggest differences for KG7:

- Better support for Athlon XP.
- AMD Northbridge
- DDR RAM
- All PCI

KG7 is the better board, but you lose the ISA slot.

The biggest reason why I liked the KT7A was for its awesome performance with an Athlon 1400 combined with an AWE64 in the ISA slot.

I think the Athlon 1400 or a similar Pentium 3 or Pentium 4 would be a fine candidate - I've had no issues with Windows 98SE in testing on my Pentium 4w/i845 platform, paired with a GeForce FX (I have a GeForce 2 in the mail, if you're curious I can report back, but I'm not anticipating any problems). That machine originally ran XP back in 2001, with a GeForce 2, and was a rockstar at the time - only a few games from my P3 Win98 machine at the time didn't transfer straight across. I think XP vs 98 depends on the games you want to run - if you have a list, I'd check their system requirements, if 2000 or XP isn't mentioned, try a web search; lots of stuff works in XP. My preference would be towards XP unless you have an identifiable reason to have 98, because XP will allow you to install more memory, some newer/more powerful hardware, etc. It shouldn't be considered as a requirement though. I like the Pentium 4 because they tend to be pretty cheap, and should have more options in terms of hardware support, for example finding SATA-equipped boards isn't that hard. They also tend to mean DDR, which is a nice performance improvement over SDRAM. Of course the AthlonXP has the same advantages, if you prefer AMD, and some AthlonXP boards can handle 3.3V AGP cards if you want to go 3dfx.

On the graphics card, here's roughly my feeling about it: do you need pixel shaders? If not, the GF4+ really don't matter aside from raw performance (which has the corollary question: do you need high resolutions and lots of IQ enhancements?). If you do need pixel shaders, I'd be inclined to go with GeForce FX or 6, or Radeon 9/X, as they'll offer more performance and tend to be around the same price used. If you already have a 4 Ti on hand, of course use that.

As another qualifier: if you're going to mention the game Splinter Cell, dig up the massive thread, build Phil's spec machine, and be done with it.

KT7AGuy wrote:

They're totally different. Biggest differences for KG7: […]
Show full quote

Darkman wrote:

Whats the difference between a KT7A and a KG7-RAID? , both are Abit boards from around the same time.

They're totally different. Biggest differences for KG7:

- Better support for Athlon XP.
- AMD Northbridge
- DDR RAM
- All PCI

KG7 is the better board, but you lose the ISA slot.

The biggest reason why I liked the KT7A was for its awesome performance with an Athlon 1400 combined with an AWE64 in the ISA slot.

ah I see, yeah losing ISA was a bit annoying, but thats why I built that P133 machine.

Speaking of Athlons and heat, this video kind of shows the weakness of the Athlons in that area

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoXRHexGIok

Its both sad and amusing when that Athlon 1400 pretty much goes up in smoke. Apart from that its a very fast chip obviously.

Buying an OEM is probably cheaper / easier.