tualatin uses a bit less power than coppermine, both coppermine 1.13g and p3s-1.4g cunsumes about 30 watts. yeah its not much but maybe you should indeed be careful of the 150w psu.

Yeah, I was quite careful when I put together the NetVista because of the PSU being a limiting factor. When I built it, I chose a Voodoo 3 3000 to avoid stressing the PSU and to keep it as compatible as possible. The cool-running Coppermine 1ghz CPU also let's me use this crappy, but cute HSF on it.

I've got two extra spares of those things and no other CPUs to use them on. They're really not good for anything except S370 Celerons or Coppermines. I'm not going to put one in the Dell either, because its OEM heatsink is much better and uses a ducted system to eject hot air from the case. I figured I'll just keep using them on my 1ghz Coppermine until I run out of them.
(At one time, I had three other NetVista PCs that other members of my family were using. Those HSFs were only like $3 each, so I picked up a few of them. I should really just post them on AmiBay and give them away for free.)

Last year, I purchased a Belkin Conserve Insight and tested how much power the NetVista was actually using. I found that it used much less than I had thought. In fact, I further tested it with a GeForce 3 Ti500 and found that it was only pulling about 110W at full burn. If the Tualatin really does use the same as or less than the Coppermine, it may still be an option for the NetVista.

From what I've read about the Dell PSUs, they were actually rated correctly and appropriately. The 200W rating should allow me to run a Tualatin 1400-S as well as a GeForce 4 Ti4600 and maybe even an FX 5900 Ultra. Still, before I drop $30 for a CPU, I am hoping to confirm this with other Tualatin users who can share their experiences.

Thank you for your insight!

KT7AGuy wrote:

Last year, I purchased a Belkin Conserve Insight and tested how much power the NetVista was actually using. I found that it used much less than I had thought. In fact, I further tested it with a GeForce 3 Ti500 and found that it was only pulling about 110W at full burn. If the Tualatin really does use the same as or less than the Coppermine, it may still be an option for the NetVista.

From what I've read about the Dell PSUs, they were actually rated correctly and appropriately. The 200W rating should allow me to run a Tualatin 1400-S as well as a GeForce 4 Ti4600 and maybe even an FX 5900 Ultra. Still, before I drop $30 for a CPU, I am hoping to confirm this with other Tualatin users who can share their experiences.

Thank you for your insight!

110W on a 150W psu would worry me, because you might be pushing the limit of one of the rails, even though the total wattage is within limits.

At peak load, which is what you're concerned with, I'm not sure if the Tualatin is lower power than the high end Coppermine, but it might be.
I don't have a definite answer, but I can offer some FUD. 😀
I will say that under typical idling conditions, I haven't found the power usage of the Tualatin to be as impressive as I had hoped for. The 1.4GHz P3-S pulls significantly more power (about 10-15W more) than a lower end Coppermine does on the same motherboard. I don't remember ever comparing against a 1GHz though, and I never paid attention to peak load, I was just concerned with long term idle usage.

shamino wrote:

110W on a 150W psu would worry me, because you might be pushing the limit of one of the rails, even though the total wattage is […]
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KT7AGuy wrote:

Last year, I purchased a Belkin Conserve Insight and tested how much power the NetVista was actually using. I found that it used much less than I had thought. In fact, I further tested it with a GeForce 3 Ti500 and found that it was only pulling about 110W at full burn. If the Tualatin really does use the same as or less than the Coppermine, it may still be an option for the NetVista.

From what I've read about the Dell PSUs, they were actually rated correctly and appropriately. The 200W rating should allow me to run a Tualatin 1400-S as well as a GeForce 4 Ti4600 and maybe even an FX 5900 Ultra. Still, before I drop $30 for a CPU, I am hoping to confirm this with other Tualatin users who can share their experiences.

Thank you for your insight!

110W on a 150W psu would worry me, because you might be pushing the limit of one of the rails, even though the total wattage is within limits.

At peak load, which is what you're concerned with, I'm not sure if the Tualatin is lower power than the high end Coppermine, but it might be.
I don't have a definite answer, but I can offer some FUD. 😀
I will say that under typical idling conditions, I haven't found the power usage of the Tualatin to be as impressive as I had hoped for. The 1.4GHz P3-S pulls significantly more power (about 10-15W more) than a lower end Coppermine does on the same motherboard. I don't remember ever comparing against a 1GHz though, and I never paid attention to peak load, I was just concerned with long term idle usage.

If the system draws 110W from the wall with an old NetVista PSU then the system only takes ~75W from the PSU.
I would not worry too much.

Skyscraper wrote:

If the system draws 110W from the wall with an old NetVista PSU then the system only takes ~75W from the PSU.
I would not worry too much.

Please forgive my ignorance. How so?

When I ran my tests with the Belkin tool, I only used it on the computer itself. I did not include the monitor, speakers, and other peripherals.

shamino wrote:

110W on a 150W psu would worry me, because you might be pushing the limit of one of the rails, even though the total wattage is within limits.

It worries me too, and I would rather be safe than sorry. So, if I get a Tualatin it will probably go into the Dell with the 200W PSU.

Just a warning, I have a Dimension 4100 as well. They use a Dell proprietary PSU, so if you want to use higher end components with it and need to upgrade the power supply buy or make an adapter.

ODwilly wrote:

Just a warning, I have a Dimension 4100 as well. They use a Dell proprietary PSU, so if you want to use higher end components with it and need to upgrade the power supply buy or make an adapter.

I saw some mention of the Dell PSU adapter elsewhere when I researched it a bit. However, I have not been able to locate one. Do you know where to get one? It would certainly make things a whole lot easier.

What CPU and GPU are you using in your Dell? How well does it handle it with the 200W PSU?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230867480318?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I bought one of these and it works great. It has a Copper mine 866 or 833 (don't remember which) and a fx5950 Ultra. Powered by a Taiwanese 500watt that Is overkill for this. The greatest part is that it adds the 6pin so that you dont need to have a 6pin auxiliary connector on your power supply.

From what I read the fx5950Ultra can pull up to 130+ watts of power. I figured that adding in the 25-30ish of the cpu and the power pulled from the drives it would be to close for comfort. Although I will say that the stock unit is a really well built supply for an OEM.

KT7AGuy wrote:

Skyscraper wrote:

If the system draws 110W from the wall with an old NetVista PSU then the system only takes ~75W from the PSU.
I would not worry too much.

Please forgive my ignorance. How so?

When I ran my tests with the Belkin tool, I only used it on the computer itself. I did not include the monitor, speakers, and other peripherals.

The 155W max specification is how much DC power the PSU can deliver and the efficiancy is 65-75%.
Thus when the system pulls 110W from the wall the computer only pulls max 75w from the PSU.
You still need to keep an eye on all the rails but if you check them with a multimeter and they dont dip much its probably OK.

Using the 200w PSU if you are going to use a FX 5950 is probably wise but the cards power draw is "only" ~75w split on all the rails.
Here is a detailed view of the FX 5950s power draw. Click on the picture for details as the text has the rails mixed up.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … nv-power_5.html

Ah ok, 75watts seems much more sane. I am over paranoid with power and always go with the more ridicules figures I find people throw out there. In that case if you keep it down to a single hard drive, cd/dvd drive and floppy drive even with the tualatin you should be fine. 😊

Just a note with the 5950 - it's drawing 3-4A on the 12V. I've seen some of those older Dell/etc OEM PSUs only rated for 4-6A max on their 12V rails (remember old PSUs tended to put most of their output on the 5V rail). I probably wouldn't fuss with a 5950 for a P3 - it'll be horribly limited (see my AGP comparison if you don't believe me). You could get something like an FX 5700 and probably not even be able to tell the difference, aside from it using less power, being quieter, and running cooler of course.

Skyscraper: I would guess more like 50-60% efficiency. 75% was fairly high end ten+ years ago. I have a Foxconn Dell OEM out of a P3 i815 machine (wouldn't be surprised if we're talking about the same PSU/machine here) that is only around that 50% bar; my P4 3.2EE on a modern 500W+ 80Plus PSU can actually draw less power at the wall vs my P3 1GHz because of how inefficient the Foxconn PSU is. 😲 I will add that that Foxconn has started my 5900XT without any fuss; it seems to be fairly honestly rated, just really inefficient (which means it kicks out heat and gets loud under load).

Thanks everybody for all your replies and wisdom!

I've decided not to push my luck with the Tualatin. Mostly, I just don't want to build another full high-quality retro system. I've got so many already and most are KT7As with an ISA slot, which I prefer.

This would make a fantastic PC for somebody who wanted to build out a Tualatin 1400-S with a 5900 Ultra, but I just don't want to invest the money and have another computer in my house. I'm looking at it like this:

$10 - Dell Dimension 4100
$30 - Tualatin 1400-S
$23 - FX 5900 Ultra
$25 - New 400+ Watt PSU
$6.50 - Dell PSU Adapter
$7 - USB 2.0 PCI Adapter

With all that, I'm already getting up into the $100 range. If I want to play it safe and get it recapped by Chris over at BadCaps, then it is going into the $200+ range.

Considering that I already have two other legacy computers in the same performance range as this would be, I can't justify the expense.

I'm probably just going to upgrade it with a 1ghz Coppermine, USB 2.0 PCI card, and probably a spare Radeon 9600XT or GF4 Ti4800SE. I'll have fun building the system and post it on craigslist for $75 or so. Somebody will get a nice ready-to-go legacy gaming system and I'll get the enjoyment of building it and even make a small ~$15 profit. I'll also be able to get rid of some spare parts that I know I'll never use.

Well, things just get better and better! I just received an old PC that I built back around 1999/2000. It's an ABIT BM6 with my original Voodoo 3 3000 and a Celeron 600. The case is real ugly with lots of stripped screws. I paused to think about what to do with it and came up with a better idea! Between the Dell 4100 that I've already mentioned and another ABIT BH6 project that I'm slowly working on, I can cannibalize the BM6 PC almost completely between the two systems. It looks like I'll be keeping the Dell after all! 😎

Just out of curiosity, where'd you find the Dell PSU adapter for $6.50? I've seen them for more like $20 in the past, and that's always kept me from purchasing them, but it'd be nice to have one for my P3, and at $6.50 that's not bad at all. 😊

Also, back on topic, why the FX 5900 Ultra for a P3? Seems like a lot of power draw for a card that will be generally very limited by the CPU imho (and I speak partially from experience on this, having run my 5800 Ultra with my 2GHz P4 for a while).

obobskivich wrote:

Also, back on topic, why the FX 5900 Ultra for a P3? Seems like a lot of power draw for a card that will be generally very limited by the CPU imho (and I speak partially from experience on this, having run my 5800 Ultra with my 2GHz P4 for a while).

If I were going to use the Tualatin 1400-S, I would choose the 5900 Ultra because I already have one lying around, and also because it offers better FSAA when compared to GF3 or GF4. However, you're right about the CPU being the limiting factor. Anything beyond a GF4 is probably overkill. So, I won't waste my spare 5900 Ultra in this system.

As it is, I also have a spare GF4 Ti4800SE that I'll pair up with a 1ghz Coppermine for this Dell. It should run extremely well and it won't overload the 200W OEM PSU.

KT7AGuy wrote:

obobskivich wrote:

Also, back on topic, why the FX 5900 Ultra for a P3? Seems like a lot of power draw for a card that will be generally very limited by the CPU imho (and I speak partially from experience on this, having run my 5800 Ultra with my 2GHz P4 for a while).

If I were going to use the Tualatin 1400-S, I would choose the 5900 Ultra because I already have one lying around, and also because it offers better FSAA when compared to GF3 or GF4. However, you're right about the CPU being the limiting factor. Anything beyond a GF4 is probably overkill. So, I won't waste my spare 5900 Ultra in this system.

As it is, I also have a spare GF4 Ti4800SE that I'll pair up with a 1ghz Coppermine for this Dell. It should run extremely well and it won't overload the 200W OEM PSU.

Just because it is CPU limited doesn't mean it isn't worth it for extra features.
Old Geforce cards are not that uncommon

obobskivich wrote:

Just out of curiosity, where'd you find the Dell PSU adapter for $6.50? I've seen them for more like $20 in the past, and that's always kept me from purchasing them, but it'd be nice to have one for my P3, and at $6.50 that's not bad at all. 😊<br abp="682"><br abp="683">Also, back on topic, why the FX 5900 Ultra for a P3? Seems like a lot of power draw for a card that will be generally very limited by the CPU imho (and I speak partially from experience on this, having run my 5800 Ultra with my 2GHz P4 for a while).

I posted a link to ebay earlier here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230867480318?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT, and so far it works great! 500 watts of over-rated Taiwanese power woot! Seriously besides a couple of 250's this was the only PSU available 😊 but ya, I don't have anything else that my 5950 can go into TBH. The one in the Dimension 4100 has a AC Silencer on it that makes it not fit in my Dual P3 system, and that already has a reference Nvidia 5950. It is going to end up with a 1400-S later on so hey might as well max it out 😊