VOGONS


First post, by Runicen

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Alright, so I've been lurking on the forums for the past few weeks as the rubber has hit the road on this "restoring old hardware" thing I'm dabbling in. What can I say? Watch a few Lazy Game Review videos and you start to remember the pleasant smell of big box PC games at a Babbages or Electronics Boutique and start to wonder if, just maybe, something joyful was left behind when all that old hardware and all those old games ended up in the trash heap.

Well, so far, my results have been less than spectacular.

I scored an old Dell Optiplex running a P200, so we're alright there, but it needs work and is on the bench as we speak. The real oddity (which I picked up with the Dell strictly for the oddity factor) is a Laser 486 box. It was sold "as-is" because it lacked a CPU fan. Well, clearly they didn't do much research as it's a 486SX-25, which apparently never needed one. Thanks to Google for providing me with that information.

Now, where this starts getting ugly is that, upon removing the front plate of the case, I found an enclosure which held what used to be three AA batteries (CMOS battery, I presume) which had long since exploded, leaked and corroded all over the damn place. So, I dutifully cleaned everything up with vinegar to neutralize the goo and then a solid wipe-down to clear the residue. Up to this point, I hadn't even tried to plug the thing in. Now that it was cleaned, I gave it a whirl and... nothing. Not so much as a chirp or a cheep out of the thing.

I managed to resist the urge to chuck the box out of the window and took everything apart, checking to see if the motherboard had been hit with any of the battery nastiness (there was corrosion on the leads connecting that battery box to the motherboard header). The motherboard is immaculate and so are all of the cards and RAM connected to it. The thing has an ISA board with four add-on ports which doubles as the floppy/hard drive controller (came with a 3.5" floppy, no hard drive) as well as an ISA graphics card. The motherboard itself has a pretty large assortment of ports and that surprised the hell out of me when I first opened it up. Apparently, this was a common late 80s/early 90s design. I'm counting 6 ISA 16-bit ports, 1 ISA 8-bit port, 2 VLB slots (I'm still a bit vague on what those are for) and 8 ram slots, four of which are occupied with 1MB (if I'm reading the labels correctly) chips.

I'm attaching pictures to this post because I have very little idea what I'm looking at here short of what I've delved up via the oracle (Google). I used 486 machines long before I started tinkering with and upgrading them as a kid, so the innards of this thing are totally alien to me. My suspicion is that the power supply died a death ages ago and that's the source of the problem - hence no activity whatsoever when it's plugged in and switched on. Surprisingly given the battery ugliness, everything else in the case is immaculate.

So, what I'm looking at now, assuming it can be done, is to replace the CMOS battery (that enclosure was fouled beyond recognition and had to be removed and thrown out) and the power supply (AT). Can this be done in a cost-effective way or have I already lost before I started? Also, if it's not worth saving the box, is there any merit to trying to part it out on eBay and the like? Any chance I'd recoup any kind of money doing that between the ISA controller card, graphics card, or 4MB of ram installed in the box, or is this just more junk silicon?

Thanks in advance for any answers. This forum has been a tremendous resource just picking through old threads and I figured that if anyone could give me a conclusive answer on this beast of a machine, they'd be on here. Let me know if I missed any pertinent info on the box and I'll see if I can't provide it.

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Reply 1 of 40, by smeezekitty

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You are quite lucky it is an external battery. If it used a NICD barrel battery, it would likely destroy the motherboard.

IT just needs a regular AT power supply which are not super common but not all that rare either.

You should be able to find one. Finding one that fits the case might take a little more effort.

Reply 2 of 40, by Runicen

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Funny enough, the power supply doesn't seem to be a weird form factor given that it's a branded desktop style PC. In fact, if I didn't know better, I'd say it was roughly the same dimensions as a standard ATX power supply (that alone may have been odd for AT).

Is there anybody still making AT power supplies or ATX power supplies that can be adapted to work with AT motherboards? If this situation taught me nothing, it's that older hardware (at least when recapping is a bold new frontier) is a dodgy gamble on a good day because you can never tell the mileage or wear the stuff has on it until you've been operating with it for a while.

Reply 3 of 40, by Scali

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Runicen wrote:

ATX power supplies that can be adapted to work with AT motherboards?

Any ATX power supply can be adapted to work with an AT motherboard afaik, using a cable like this: http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/ATX-to-AT-Converter.php

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 4 of 40, by armankordi

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This thing is useful if it works. If it doesn't, ALWAYS keep the case.
(I think I saw this thing on eBay.)

IBM PS/2 8573-121 386-20 DOS6.2/W3.1
IBM PS/2 8570-E61 386-16 W95
IBM PS/2 8580-071 386-16 (486DX-33 reply) OS/2 warp
486DX/2 - 66/32mb ram/256k cache/504mb hdd/cdrom/awe32/DOS6.2/WFW3.11
K6/2 - 350/128mb ram/512k cache/4.3gb hdd/cdr/sblive/w98

Reply 5 of 40, by PeterLI

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Nice system. Should run a lot of DOS games really nicely. I recommend checking out http://www.vintage-computer.com / http://www.amibay.com / http://www.cpu-world.com and ask for an AT PSU. I had a few but I gave them away to a friend recently. Please also add your location to your profile here and on the other sites. It usually helps people help you better. In case you are in the EU you can also try http://www.retroforum.nl / http://www.dosforum.de / http://www.classic-computing.org.

FYI: the components are pretty generic / low end so do not expect a lot of $ out of them in case you sell them.

Good luck! 🤣

Reply 6 of 40, by Sutekh94

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AT power supplies tend to be cheap on eBay, with the cheapest ranging from $10-$30, not factoring shipping. Heck, Newegg sells new AT power supplies!

Also, you are very lucky that the battery leakage didn't happen because of a failed NiCD battery soldered onto the motherboard. If that was the case, then the battery very likely would've damaged the motherboard beyond repair.

That one vintage computer enthusiast brony.
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Reply 7 of 40, by Runicen

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Thanks very much for all the helpful suggestions. Given that the Pentium 200 should work backwards to cover up to the era of gaming I started with (early 90s) to the late 90s stuff I sort of bowed out with (3d acceleration priced me out of the market as a teen), I feel a little foolish and impulsive for even picking up the 486, but it's become something of a white whale at this point and I'd like to get it working again.

That NewEgg AT power supply may be my first stop so I can at least test my theory about the PS being to blame for its inaction. The only difference I'm noticing is that, on the Laser, the power supply is switched (I'm assuming this is the primary on/off switch on the box). I'm not sure if there's a particularly elegant way to create a power switch on this thing without making it look like a total Frankenstein job.

Oh, and location added. Sorry for the omission.

Reply 9 of 40, by Runicen

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Point. I think I will follow up some of these leads and see if I can't get this bad boy back into service.

And I got to see a small sample of what that battery corrosion would have been capable of because the board containing the status LEDs and reset switch was mounted just below it. It only appeared to affect one end of the board with no traces on it, but until I fix the REST of what's wrong with the board, I won't be able to verify that for sure. Still, what it DID do to the board was seven kinds of ugly even if it didn't affect anything important.

Amazing to think how many technological devices are at the mercy of short-sighted engineering like that.

Reply 10 of 40, by Runicen

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Phew... Well, so much for easy answers.

I was able to track down a used AT power supply for the cost of a thrift store flat-screen in trade and the 486 will post. Unfortunately, I'm having some difficulty getting a hard drive to mount on the ISA controller card (I'm assuming this is down to size limitations on these older machines). An odd quirk of this machine is that the controller card wasn't working at all in its original ISA slot but seemed to get over its issue once relocated. Since it was originally plugged into the ISA slot nearest the motherboard header the CMOS batteries were plugged in to, I suspect there's damage I simply can't see - or it just needed to be re-seated.

At this point, I'm into some heavy cost/benefit analysis on pursuing this machine further. I know the motherboard, processor and memory all check out and post correctly, so at least that's a thumbs up. Unfortunately, the case being what it is presents some challenges. Apparently, all drives mounting to this thing used these thin plastic rails to "click" into place rather than anything more conventional and I was given no extras with the box. Additionally, without drilling some serious holes in the chassis, any power supply that doesn't have a rocker switch next to the AC plug connection won't quite fit either.

So, without diving in with a much larger financial investment (it's at least going to need the replacement CMOS), is there a relatively easy way to use what I already have to get this thing up and running or is there no way around either throwing this board in a new case (assuming it will mount in an ATX) or performing some invasive surgery on the chassis?

Reply 12 of 40, by Robin4

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PeterLI wrote:

My advice: part it out / recycle it.

Funny man... ( you could dump every computer thats isnt looking bad, or if you dont want to use it) (parts are already hard to find these days, so i wouldnt
encourage to part out / recycle it..) ( i would only recycle if the case was really abused and the motherboard was deliberately damaged.)

I would say its really a treasure.. Why? Because these laser computers arent very common to find anymore.(same as vendex computers) And if you find one you can very pleased with it.
I really should keep it! The corrosion isnt very hard to fix, and the motherboard looks very clean to me (i have see worser)
If you dont want the computer, or having other plans in mind (building an other type of computer) I would recommend to sell that laser computer to another person with intrests to build a vintage computer..

armankordi wrote:

This thing is useful if it works. If it doesn't, ALWAYS keep the case.
(I think I saw this thing on eBay.)

I would keep the case and motherboard together.. most of these Laser computers are proprietary.. And its more valuable if the case contain its original factory motherboard..

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 13 of 40, by smeezekitty

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Funny man... ( you could dump every computer thats isnt looking bad, or if you dont want to use it) (parts are already hard to f […]
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Funny man... ( you could dump every computer thats isnt looking bad, or if you dont want to use it) (parts are already hard to find these days, so i wouldnt
encourage to part out / recycle it..) ( i would only recycle if the case was really abused and the motherboard was deliberately damaged.)

I would say its really a treasure.. Why? Because these laser computers arent very common to find anymore.(same as vendex computers) And if you find one you can very pleased with it.
I really should keep it! The corrosion isnt very hard to fix, and the motherboard looks very clean to me (i have see worser)
If you dont want the computer, or having other plans in mind (building an other type of computer) I would recommend to sell that laser computer to another person with intrests to build a vintage computer..

Big +1

Reply 14 of 40, by Runicen

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Hmm... Point taken.

Well, what are the odds of me finding an AT power supply that wouldn't require serious case modification to mount (i.e. the power switch is built on to the PS chassis instead of at the end of a cord)? Also, what are my odds on finding the drive mounting rails (or does anyone know of a good way to jury rig a solution to lacking them?)?

If I CAN make this work, it'd at least be a fun challenge. At this point, I'm just discouraged by the potential to sink a lot more cash into this thing before it's a "complete" machine. And, with not much resale value after shipping, there's not much financial incentive to chase for it, refurb the thing and then resell it.

Reply 15 of 40, by Robin4

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dont know which type AT style PSU this system is using, do you maybe have more pictures of it?? Otherwise you could always use the PSU casing with a different AT style PCB in it..
But i know there are oldstyle AT / XT type of psus and the newer baby AT style psus.

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 16 of 40, by PeterLI

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Good luck trying to sell vintage computers. In many cases nobody will ever buy it. A lot of people on Vogons proclaim things should be saved and that is understandable. In reality however: with shipping and everything else few computers sell. The demand is just not there.

Reply 17 of 40, by smeezekitty

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Might as well list it for a low price. Vintage computer forums has a market place.

Its a shame that PeterLI seems to not think anything is worth saving. Why are you even on a vintage computing forum anyway?

Reply 18 of 40, by PeterLI

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That is not true. Many things are worth saving. I am just stating that reality is different: not everything is saved nor do many things actually sell. Not even for free. I am giving away a PS/1 for shipping and nobody wants it so far. Perfect example and not the first example.

Another example of something that went bye bye today:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showt … ible-good-parts

Last edited by PeterLI on 2015-01-18, 21:46. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 19 of 40, by Robin4

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smeezekitty wrote:

Might as well list it for a low price. Vintage computer forums has a market place.

Its a shame that PeterLI seems to not think anything is worth saving. Why are you even on a vintage computing forum anyway?

Otherwise amibay.com could be a option to sell it from.

~ At least it can do black and white~