VOGONS


First post, by TheAdmiralty

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Evening, everyone!

Got a bit of a monstrosity of hardware here I'm trying to get fired up. I'll give a quick overview of the specs I'm working with:
Motherboard: Young Micro VSF486F/S-3VL; 64K Cache
CPU: Intel 486DX2-66 OverDrive (486DX2ODPR66)
RAM: 8 x 1MB SIMM30
Video: ATI Mach32 VLB 1MB + 1MB Expansion
I/O: StarTech 8-bit Serial/Parallel Controller
Storage: BusLogic BT-445S SCSI VLB FDD/HDD Controller + Seagate Elite-9 ST410800 9GB HDD, NEC CD-301A CD-ROM Drive, Fujitsu FDD
Networking: 3Com Etherlink III, 3Com 56K Dialup/Fax Modem
Sound: Creative AWE32 CT3990 + 32MB

Something is very wrong with it. Since everyone hates having a wall of text, I'll outline my attempts to boot the thing:

  • Power on. Memory seek shows 8MB, SCSI controller init, floppy seek, hard drive seek. "HDD Controller Has Failed." Press F1 to continue; all of the IO, cache, and CPU statistics are reported as they should be. Asked to insert bootable disk as expected; don't have my Win95 setup floppies yet, so this is as far as I can go. Aside from my forgetting to terminate the SCSI HDD, which I assume is causing that HDD error, everything seems to be fine.
  • Reset system to test again. Video corrupts, everything turns monochrome green. Aside from that, it follows the same process as above and appears to be working.
  • Reset. No text is visible, but flashing cursor moves across screen. Speaker indicates memory count completed successfully; once it seems to have finished, pressing F1 should allow it to continue past the failed HDD controller message - text reappears and asked for boot disk.
  • Reset. Nothing - no video. Memory seeks test indicated by speaker, completes, stuck at black screen.
  • Reset. Nothing - HDD spins up, but system appears to be entirely dead.
  • Power down. Remove video card. Reboot. HDD spins up; instead of indicating a video device failure, three short high-pitched beeps are endlessly looped, indicating a base memory failure?
  • Power down. Remove ALL expansion cards and RAM. Reboot. No system activity or error beeps.
  • Power down. Reinstall video card, RAM. Reboot. Illegible corrupt/artifacted POST text appears, no memory count indicated. Stays in this state.
  • Shutdown. Remove all power, power on to drain everything. Jump CPU, VLB cards from 66i to 50i; reinstall all hardware. Reboot. Starts right up, passes all tests identical to first boot.

...and it just degenerates from there. Sometimes clearing the CMOS by cutting all power gets it back up and running, but not always. There is definitely a serious issue with the video card, and I'm going to need a replacement, but removing the defective card should cause it to detect a video error, not cycle a three-beep error tone indicating a base memory failure. I've removed all the hardware except for basically the CPU, and it often fails to respond with any error code at all.

Any thoughts/tips for troubleshooting a near thirty-year-old assortment of hardware? I'd like to get this working as-is rather than continue to throw money and replacement parts at it, but it might just come to that. I'm already on the second hard drive for this system, and they aren't exactly cheap.

He took out his hip flask when he reached the page that described how he reached the page that made him take out his hip flask.

Reply 1 of 6, by smeezekitty

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Where are you getting that three beeps means memory failure?
Does it seem thermally related i.e. does turning it off and letting it cool for a while bring it back to operation?

What do you mean 66i/50i VLB?

Any corrosion on any part of the board?

Reply 2 of 6, by RacoonRider

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I had the same problem with Soyo 019R1 386 motherboard. It was fine before shipping and the first boot gave me POST, but then it started to dergade. At one point it was giving 3 short signals only after the CMOS was cleared. Tried various VGA cards, different cache, different RAM, 50MHz OSC (instead of stock 80MHz), all jumper settings that were possible - nothing helped. It ended when the board refused to POST under any circumstances. I stripped it clean and threw away... It was a good board, a shame it ended up like that.

66i/50i means 33x2 and 25x2, "i" is for internal, in other words, CPU frequency.

Reply 3 of 6, by TheAdmiralty

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I'm basing the beep code off of standard AMIBIOS diagnostic codes, which is part of the reason I'm confused, since those error codes are beeped out in a single burst and in a lower tone... the closest thing I could find is that it represents a base 64K memory error, but I doubt that's accurate.

No corrosion that I can see; the board seems to be in physically pristine condition. The clock battery has probably been thoroughly dead for the past ten years, but I doubt that would cause a total system failure on this level. I'll stick a picture of the whole thing up here when I get a chance.

Yep, I know VLB cards tend to be a bit sensitive at higher clock speeds; this 486DX2 runs at 66Mhz at an x2 multiplier, giving it a 33Mhz internal clock speed... dropping that down to 25Mhz didn't help any.

The video card is definitely on its way out, though... I might try running it under the hot air reflow gun for a while, but even if that does work, it's a temporary fix at best. I'm going to give it one more try with one of the most basic ISA video cards I can get my hands on - probably a Western Digital Paradise 512K - that I know is definitely functional. I have 1MB (8 128Kx8+TAGRAM) of cache on its way too, so I'll be able to check that off the list once it gets here.

He took out his hip flask when he reached the page that described how he reached the page that made him take out his hip flask.

Reply 4 of 6, by Jolaes76

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On the long run, I would suggest keeping a few spare parts of every major component. High compatibility and good working condition over high quality and speed, so you do not have to spend a lot on the spares. This is the only way to ensure a more-or-less conclusive troubleshooting on your own.

In your shoes,
1. I would first check the CPU and RAM, (maybe cache chips as well) in an etalon-ly good motherboard
2. clear CMOS, recheck jumper settings, upgrade BIOS if necessary/possible on the subject motherboard
2. then put a simple ISA VGA and ISA multi I/O card in the subject motherboard
3. try POST and boot from a floppy or IDE HDD
4. run the usual diags / benches

when everything works, you can start adding stuff *one-by-one* like SCSI devices and permutate their resources, changing slots, jumpers etc...

"Ita in vita ut in lusu alae pessima iactura arte corrigenda est."

Reply 5 of 6, by kixs

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First try with the minimum configuration and go from there.

Minimum is mobo+cpu+ram+vga. Memory and cache with slowest timings. Simple ISA VGA card. Try different ISA slots to get stable operation. Only then you try faster memory/cache timings and see if stability changes. Then you add I/O controller and boot from FDD/HDD. Try different benchmarks to test stability (3dbench, pcplayer, quake...). After that you change to VLB cards... and so on.

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 6 of 6, by chinny22

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486's are temperamental. Like everyone else I'd try the minimum CPU+Ram+Isa Video. Even try different combinations of your RAM.
Hopefully It'll become stable enough to start trying I/O controllers. That said my 486 does funny things without any HDD plugged in, even if its not actually setup it bios