VOGONS


First post, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

My first computer (had no computer experience growing up outside of really old Macintosh systems at school) was a Windows 95, 200MHz IPC Select system (Intelligent Personal Computers, you can see a couple of their awful commercials on Youtube) that I was given through Make-A-Wish. I had it until 2002 and then went on a brief Apple path before building my first PC in 2007. Anyway, I found someone selling a sealed NIB Intel TC430HX motherboard (only had to replace the CR2032 battery of course) for a reasonable price and someone else selling a new OEM 200MHz Pentium w/ MMX and my nostalgia senses started tingling. However, I don't really know what else to configure the system with. The old GPU that I installed in my first system was a 3DFX 16MB Maxi-Gamer Pheonix but that was the only significant upgrade that I ever made inside (added LAN card for broadband). I was looking at an ATI 128 Rage Pro 32MB PCI card but don't know where to begin for a sound card of that era (PCI or even an ISA card since I've never used one before). As for RAM I can find 4x 32MB 72pin 60ns EDO SIMMs for a decent price so that will be maxed out. I thought that an Intel board would have been a safe bet but no drivers are listed on Intel's site any longer for download (2012 was the last year, apparently) but it looks like the only driver on the CD is for the Yamaha YMF701 OPL3-SA FM synthesizer anyway. The plan is to use it for older gaming and I will settle on a Windows 98 installation as the OS but I will try older OSes just for the experience beforehand.

Any advice for filling out the system would be greatly appreciated. Oh, the I/O shield is a shape that is no longer used (too wide by a significant margin) so I guess, I need to either find an era correct chassis or leave it out with a modern case.

Thanks.

Attachments

  • TC430HX.jpg
    Filename
    TC430HX.jpg
    File size
    1001.36 KiB
    Views
    2704 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • IMG_2738.JPG
    Filename
    IMG_2738.JPG
    File size
    1023.34 KiB
    Views
    2704 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 1 of 19, by 90sToys

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Nice find!

If you're going for ATi then an era correct video card would be a 3D Rage II+DVD with 2 or 4 MB.

If you don't want to or can't use the on-board audio then an era correct sound card would be a Sound Blaster AWE64.

As far as drivers go you can still get Intel series 400 chipset drivers for Win98 on their website while AMD offers a Rage II driver bundle on theirs. Win98 will detect and install an AWE64 so you'll get sound but if you want all the Creative software you'll have to find and install it.

Reply 2 of 19, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks, I'm not particularly concerned with it being exactly era correct but with it being as functional as possible. I will try the on board sound device first but wanted to know some options. Bonus, the manual I have says max memory is 128MB but several places online state that max for the TC430HX is actually 512MB so that is potentially cool.

Reply 3 of 19, by alexanrs

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

For an IO shield, you can use something like this

Also, if that board has OPL3-SA onboard, you shouldn't have trouble with sound. SBPro and WSS-compatible. I'd skip the default drivers that come with Windows 98 and use the actual Yamaha ones as that allows selecting SoftSynth for DOS games within Windows. To get more than Adlib/SB music in bare DOS you'll need an external MIDI module, though. If you want you can experiment with an AWE64. That should give you better MIDI without an external device.

Reply 4 of 19, by RacoonRider

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I never knew i430 chip sets need drivers... 400 series is too wide to have universal driver solution, it started with 420 (486) and ended with 440BX for desktop.

Reply 5 of 19, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I hadn't thought to look on eBay for an I/O shield, they are plentiful. I like this one, it is a bit subtler.

When I have the cpu and ram, I'll try out the onboard sound. Too bad the factory available upgrade wasn't installed on my board. From what I've been researching, I wonder if it is worth going over 64MB of memory on this board since caching becomes an issue above that (unless it has a different tag chip installed but i really can't find any information on identifying what is there).

Reply 6 of 19, by ODwilly

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

A Voodoo 1 and a S3 Trio64 are a great video combination for a Pentium build.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 7 of 19, by havli

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I am going to build similar system - TC430HX + P233 MMX + 64MB RAM + Matrox Millenium II + Voodoo 1/2 (not sure which one) + AWE32.

The i430HX should be able to take up to 512MB RAM but it depends on the actual MB how much of it is cacheable. I'm not sure about the TC430HX in this matter. 64MB is a safe amount, thats for sure. I have 4x 32MB EDO sticks here, so I can try to find out if 128MB is cacheable or not.

HW museum.cz - my collection of PC hardware

Reply 8 of 19, by Darkman

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I would not bother with a Rage 128 , its probably a little overkill for a P200.

a better video combo would be either an ATI Rage II/Pro , or S3 Virge for 2D , coupled with a 3DFX Voodoo 1 or 2 , that should work well for the games this system can be expected to run. a Matrox based card will have superior image quality but have more compatibility issues.

For sound, you can't go wrong with an ISA based Sound Blaster , one of the AWE variations are probably the best , but an SB16 would also work well.

64Mb of RAM is really all you need for this system , you may have problems otherwise. If you go with Win98 , make sure its the second edition.

Reply 13 of 19, by alexanrs

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

For the VGA take a look at this chart.

If you want to do DOS gaming, Matrox cards aren't that compatible. If you are on CRT a Banshee or Voodoo3 seem to be good options, and so are nVidia cards. The Trio64, though, reigns supreme when it comes to DOS compatibility. I'd recommend having Glide support, so if you go S3/nVidia, pair it up with a Voodoo1/2.

Also, get a NIC. It is much more convenient to move files between you main and retro-rig through a network than burning CDs/DVDs or using flash drives on slow USB 1.1 ports.

If you are unhappy with onboard sound, get an ISA soundcard. If you have plenty of games you wish to play with FM music, favour something with true OPL (certain models of SB16/AWE32, or an OPL3-SA card), but if what you want is General MIDI, beware of the hanging note bug (AWE64 is a good bet, and so is OPL3-SA cards). Beware that to get GM in pure DOS you'll probably need an external MIDI synth, or a daughterboard.

Reply 14 of 19, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have an Intel Pro 100+ NIC. I had leaned towards the ATI Rage 128 Pro simply because I could find it new (I like the idea of finding old stuff but NIB, maybe I have trust issues) on eBay and I figured since the card I had in my first system was 16MB, then 32MB wouldn't be overkill but I really don't have a good appreciation of the Pentium 1's limitations on GPUs. A few years ago I got an NEC FE2111SB brand new (a supplier at work had one for $75 Canadian and I couldn't believe that it was brand new, NEC wouldn't let me register the warranty though) so I'm covered for a CRT.

I'm going to stick with 64MB of RAM since I won't go above Windows 98 on the system. I'll try out the onboard sound and keep an ISA card in mind if I decide to upgrade.

Reply 15 of 19, by Godlike

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
anachronism1887 wrote:

I'm going to stick with 64MB of RAM since I won't go above Windows 98 on the system. I'll try out the onboard sound and keep an ISA card in mind if I decide to upgrade.

I'm going to stick with 64RAM as well. This is my very similar 586class intel chipset motherboard
GXwWpez.jpg?1
I'm going to build this with 3dfx Orchid mechanical relay Voodoo card, ATI Mach64 2Mb as primary graphics. Still have trouble with reapair my HP 14inch screen, and i need to buy good keyboard such as IBM mechanical model M, wich I like the most. You have nice and reliable parts as well, I would recommend for your build PowerVR PCX 1,2 or ATI 3D Rage II + DVD. Primarily I think of Videologic Apocalypse 3D for my motherboard but I was unlucky to get one and finally stick with my 3dfx Voodoo Orchid Righteous. Also I did good research on backplates for AT motherboards to use in ATX cases. If you will think of it seriously then PM. Good luck with this build 😊

5xv2YSm.png
ASUS P2B-F, PII 450Mhz, 128MB-SDR, 3Dfx Diamond Monster 3D II SLI, Matrox Millennium II AGP, Diamond Monster Sound MX300

Reply 16 of 19, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

So my little retro experiment has not worked out well. I had the MB set up for testing externally (installed on standoffs, sitting on top of the box) and it POSTed just fine. I found used 32MBx2 of 60ns EDO SIMMS locally (detected fine in the BIOS in bank 0 or 1) and the CPU was detected without issue. I tried using a CF to IDE adapter with an IDE DVD writer with all appropriate jumpers set but I could not get the system to boot from a disc. Occasionally it would get to the "Start Set Up from CD" screen but it would always hang. Usually, it doesn't get that far and hangs at the initial "OS Loading" screen. Windows 95, 98, and ME were tried. I tried booting a DOS install from both a floppy emulator and a real 3.5" drive and again, the system just hangs. I tried a DVD writer, 52X CD-ROM, 3.5" floppy, USB floppy emulator, a CF to IDE adapter, a real IDE hard disk (although the smallest I had available was 320GB), and 40 wire IDE, 80 wire IDE, and two different floppy ribbon cables. I cannot see anything in the BIOS that could be at fault and I tried all available options under the PnP OS setting Would it be worth getting RAM online since that is the only component that hasn't been troubleshooted? Right now, I'm leaning heavily towards it being an issue with the motherboard but I can't see any issues with components or circuitry. The board did have a chemical-esque smell when I removed it from the box but it had been sitting sealed for 18 years and the CR2032 battery was run down but not leaking. I'm powering it with an 850W PSU (complete overkill but it was what I had available and power doesn't seem to be an issue and the PSU worked well before I changed it for a modular unit in my main system). I really wanted to have this system running but hit a pretty major wall in my efforts. Thanks for any advice possible.

Reply 17 of 19, by Skyscraper

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Old systems will often hang at HDD detection when too large HDDs are connected.

Try booting from a floppy without any HDD connected.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 18 of 19, by anachronism1887

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Well after getting angry and putting everything away for a while, I decided to give this another shot and it worked. Near as I can tell, there is a memory setting in the BIOS that I had to set to 640 (default is 512) and that allowed me to boot off of the Windows 98SE disc and complete an install. Looks like both of the CF to IDE adapters that I have, just won't work but the 320GB Seagate gives me no issues. Although, the system is sitting in a brand new case, all the other hardware I installed seems to be humming along just fine.

I found a Toshiba Satellite Pro at Value Village for $20CAD, it didn't have a power adapter and didn't seem to want to POST. After getting an adaptet, pulling it apart and cleaning it (looks like there had been a spill), it booted just fine. I now have a very small retro computer collection.

Reply 19 of 19, by chinny22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Congratulations, Sometimes the best fix is just to step away for a while.
You also have my sympathy, 2nd retro machine already. Looks like your now an addict like most of us here