Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-04-20, 23:36:

how many will actually use a Celeron D and 2x512MB of PC2-4200 DDR2 on Windows Vista (with a hard drive) to do it? I would think […]
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how many will actually use a Celeron D and 2x512MB of PC2-4200 DDR2 on Windows Vista (with a hard drive) to do it? I would think very very very few, aside from those that genuinely want to laugh at how bad some OEM PCs were at the time.
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For me personally, the $250+ in scrap value and the space cleared up is worth it right now.
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It's not so much about how much space a specific useless horded retro item will take up, it's the total space taken up by all of the useless horded retro items, and what could have been done with the space\time\energy\money required to keep them.

That's basically it, most hardware are readily available aside from a few obscure items. 286, 386, 486, Pentiums, Athlons, whatever, most of them won't appreciate in value at all but they are taking tons of space. And that's 90's-2000's hardware when all this was at peak popularity!
Now hoarding 478, 775, 939 and other modern systems or parts? Entirely pointless unless it's a top of the line unit or server and not some low-end office rig or OEM bs.
Most of us fall into this trap because it's hard to say no to free stuff.

If I might ask, does someone have an idea of the price for an Athlon MP motherboard/CPU/Cooler combo? As there are not many for sale and the ones that are listed are at around $200 just for the mainboard it's difficult to estimate. $150 would be decent?

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-04-20, 23:36:

Tetrium wrote on 2023-04-20, 12:22:

If it's for a collective 50+ years of collection without ever having ridden oneself of any memory modules (and if one has relatively little space), then yes I can imagine it will start to fill up more and more and will consequently take up more and more space, but not to the same degree as most other parts.
I basically totally agree about the laptop ram anyway. The only other useful purpose I could see such low capacity (laptop) modules potentially have, is for cannibalizing the memory chips for whatever reason. Or for use as test parts.

I don't collect laptops so my laptop parts are few.

Yeah, I don't collect laptops either. This guy certainly did... or rather, he collected the parts, heh.

I don't exactly have a tiny amount of space (I own a home), but I try to not horde stuff I will never use or that is extremely unlikely to increase in value over the next 10-15 years.

Yes, I definitely agree with you on this one. The only lower end stuff I have that I also have no interest in, is stuff I got in complete batches (usually a complete system I bought second hand for very cheaps, was gifted or (very uncommon nowadays) found on the streets.
Also I haven't really collected much the last years, so I don't need to keep future space needs in mind as generally speaking I've been content with what I have in my collection regarding old stuff of roughly 398/486 up until s754/s939. And the newer stuff is generally speaking of less interest to me if only because at a certain era it's all about being online all the time and games on separate media (so no DLC stuff) is not a thing anymore.
So my collection isn't growing anymore so as long as I don't even go into the attic anymore, it's also not in the way.
But I get where you're coming from in your position. At some point you have to narrow down what you want to intake into your collection and what you don't want or don't want anymore.
Money is also much more a consideration compared to how it used to be.

Here is my thought process when determining what to keep: What is the value of a single 486SX, or a set of 256k or 1MB 30pin SIM […]
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Here is my thought process when determining what to keep:
What is the value of a single 486SX, or a set of 256k or 1MB 30pin SIMMs? How hard are they to find? While the value has gone up on some, it is still quite easy to find these really, despite the fact that they are 30+ years old and relatively few of them would have been made compared to the insane quantity of PCs being pumped out in the mid 2000s. On top of that, the perceived "retro value" of older stuff like that compared to things from the mid 2000s is much much higher. A PC using authentic hardware from the early to mid '90s can get you an real PC running DOS and Windows 3.1 games on proper hardware without the issues caused by using hardware that is too new or too fast. A PC from the mid 2000s will run games that the majority of the time will work 10x better on something newer and faster.

Basically, low end hardware from the 90s still has many "practical" retro uses, and building them can be an interesting experience that opens up the possibility of running very specific old software (or other interesting hardware).

If people want to play games from ~2006 some day, however, how many will actually use a Celeron D and 2x512MB of PC2-4200 DDR2 on Windows Vista (with a hard drive) to do it? I would think very very very few, aside from those that genuinely want to laugh at how bad some OEM PCs were at the time.

There is absolutely a chance that at some point a Celeron D and slow, low capacity DDR2 will be highly sought after, but how long will I have to sit on this stuff in the mean time? And will looking at the extra boxes of junk I will never use discourage me from picking up one more scrap lot that contains valuable stuff I'll actually use? 😀

I doubt people will build a Celeron D with low capacity slow DDR2, same as I see way fewer people building a Pentium 75 using 2x4MB 70ns FPM and using the onboard speaker compared to people wanting a P MMX 233MHz with some kind of Voodoo with a more compatible 2D card and ISA sound (often with midi).
One reason it miiiight be interesting is if it also had very low TDP or anything else which could help make it stand out.
Will it be useful? Possible, but indeed, chances are wayyy lower compared to the more mod-range and high-end stuff from the same era and in the mean time it will keep laying around till it's out of the way one way or the other.

For me personally, the $250+ in scrap value and the space cleared up is worth it right now. I still have a huge quantity of RAM, but now it is contained to... one largish box, two small totes... and two small boxes. And that obviously doesn't count what is in the motherboards and PCs I own... or all the RAM that will show up in other lots over the coming years. That is plenty for my lifetime. 🤣

It's not so much about how much space a specific useless horded retro item will take up, it's the total space taken up by all of the useless horded retro items, and what could have been done with the space\time\energy\money required to keep them. I've gotten rid of many broken\dead cards and boards over the years that are likely worth more now, even defective or beyond repair... but if I kept it all I'd likely lose things that are far more precious, like my sanity, my family or the ability to walk through my office\basement\garage without hanging my head in shame. 🤣

One thing that also kinda bothers me, all the low end stuff would be quite a pain to actually sell or at least find a new owner for, it's a lot of hassle with little gain (and sometimes may even end up costing more than if you'd tossed it into the bin). If I don't gain anything from it, then why would I want to bother with it as I've so much other and better thigns to spend my time on.
I've been considering getting rid of at least part of my collection, especially stuff I know I won't miss anyway and takes up the most room like cases and I got plenty things I can spend the extra money on. So I kinda get where you're coming from 🙂

Random and smaller size ram modules are also handy to keep around as filler if you ever plan to sell a working system. For example, I'll give away memory that I don't want in my collection for whatever reason, even though they work just fine. I would rather buy new (used) memory to give away than part with my thoroughly tested and validated sticks that are already catalogued with details and reference timings written on them, etc.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-04-23, 17:03:

Random and smaller size ram modules are also handy to keep around as filler if you ever plan to sell a working system. For example, I'll give away memory that I don't want in my collection for whatever reason, even though they work just fine. I would rather buy new (used) memory to give away than part with my thoroughly tested and validated sticks that are already catalogued with details and reference timings written on them, etc.

That's also true. Stuff that's in perfectly working condition is also of value, like my standard testing 64MB SDRAM testing ram 😜

I also use my Rage 128 cards religiously for bench testing hardware with Windows 9x, because they are a solid, cheap, and ubiquitous. I'm especially grateful for this choice since all of the physical handling can have deleterious affects. One of the Rage 128 cards I use for testing stopped working suddenly as a result, for no discernable reason. I would hate for that to happen with something rarer or more valuable.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-04-23, 22:14:

I also use my Rage 128 cards religiously for bench testing hardware with Windows 9x, because they are a solid, cheap, and ubiquitous. I'm especially grateful for this choice since all of the physical handling can have deleterious affects. One of the Rage 128 cards I use for testing stopped working suddenly as a result, for no discernable reason. I would hate for that to happen with something rarer or more valuable.

Could actually be ESD. Could also be physical damage due to wear and tear (or old age like caps) or damage that somehow went unnoticed (even damage that almost killed it before it landed in your hands). Nothing just stops working for no reason, there always has to be a reason or it would still be functional now 😜

PCI/AGP slots are rated at Tens of insertion / removal cycles total, as in low double digits. Same goes for gold plated edge slots.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-04-24, 10:45:

PCI/AGP slots are rated at Tens of insertion / removal cycles total, as in low double digits. Same goes for gold plated edge slots.

is this a measured thing? i did a quick search online and found only reddit discussion suggesting PCIe slots in any case are good for many more

it is something i've been conscious of but never saw it as being weaker as such compared to slot / cartridge game machines, which seem to go on for many many cycles

would be interested in others experience or refs to tests

Rated lifespan is not necessarily the same as actual lifespan. Performance may also vary from the spec depending on the quality of material.

Has anyone ever experienced those cheap SDRAM slots that are so tight you think that you're going to break the ram stick during insertion? They usually have a shiny plastic appearance, rather than the usual dull one.

Oh ram slots are also rated at low teens 😀 ISA slots were much better due to huge by comparison flat fingers.

I got these in a lot of stuff a while back and they've just been hanging out in my test\sort box. Looking at them now, I don't really see anything that would be useful since multi-function I/O cards exist, and I have more of those than I'll likely ever be able to use in both ISA and VLB.

So, what do you guys think about these cards? Anything useful?

The gameport card doesn't really do anything if you have a sound card, right? Aside from providing two discrete joystick ports...

And dedicated serial or parallel cards seem really useless when there are so many serial + parallel cards out there. On that note, the one in the top center seems to be a parallel + game card with connections for serial ports... but again, if the sound card has a game port, this isn't as convenient as a card that simply has parallel + serial directly on the back, plus connections for more ports.

The Compaq serial + parallel card is... out of a Compaq, but otherwise nothing special?

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-04-25, 05:57:

And dedicated serial or parallel cards seem really useless when there are so many serial + parallel cards out there. On that note, the one in the top center seems to be a parallel + game card with connections for serial ports... but again, if the sound card has a game port, this isn't as convenient as a card that simply has parallel + serial directly on the back, plus connections for more ports.

The Compaq serial + parallel card is... out of a Compaq, but otherwise nothing special?

Might of been useful 20 years ago if you needed additional serial or parallel ports or to upgrade to a faster 16550 UART if using an external modem (not sure if any of these cards have that)
but for a gaming rig It's probably a safe bet the only port been used if any is for a serial mouse and in that case whatever the multi I/O card has will be good enough anyway.

I agree. Dedicated serial and parallel cards are a hard sell. Those became a commodity real fast. I guess they were integrated somewhere that it was always available on tap at some point. ATX chipsets, maybe?

It's very rare to find a board without either for a very long time after the ATX standard.

Compaq card has full NS16550N serial chip so thats somewhat minimally useful if you need full 115Kbit Serial on slow computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16550_UART#The_16550_FIFO. Other one is 8250 (no FIFO) limited to very low speeds. hm83450 might be 16450?
https://aplawrence.com/FAQ_scotec5uart.html

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-04-25, 05:57:

[...]

The gameport card doesn't really do anything if you have a sound card, right? Aside from providing two discrete joystick ports...

That alone makes this the least useless of the lot - if you want to play a 2-joystick (probably 2-player) game, it beats a sound card. Or two. Because it's a rare sound card that lets you set its game port to secondary.

I used one of these to bash my son over the head in OMF with two Gravis gamepads.

I don't know if this counts as retro yet, but I found this machine today. It was left next to the trash bins at my uncle's apartment building. It looked mildly interesting, so it took it.

Inside was:
Asus P9X79 motherboard, socket 2011, 8x ram slots
Core i7-3920
16GB ram
Geforce GTX 980 (which seems to be dead, probably the reason for throwing this away)
500GB Samsung SSD
250+2000GB WD hard drives
Blueray / DVD-RW drive

I took out the 980, and put in radeon 7750 for testing and it booted. 980 gave just blank screen and monitor went to sleep. The case is a bit shitty for long graphics cards, because the HDD mounting frame limits the lenght. I tried to fit GTX 1080 in there, but doesn't fit. Even the 980 was fitted with almost no tolerance.

It is in some cheap and nasty Antec case

Interior is fairly clean.

Processor

God damn some people throw out decent stuff. I could use this as my daily driver, if needed 😀

CrFr wrote on 2023-04-30, 14:50:

I don't know if this counts as retro yet, but I found this machine today. It was left next to the trash bins at my uncle's apart […]
Show full quote

I don't know if this counts as retro yet, but I found this machine today. It was left next to the trash bins at my uncle's apartment building. It looked mildly interesting, so it took it.

Inside was:
Asus P9X79 motherboard, socket 2011, 8x ram slots
Core i7-3920
16GB ram
Geforce GTX 980 (which seems to be dead, probably the reason for throwing this away)
500GB Samsung SSD
250+2000GB WD hard drives
Blueray / DVD-RW drive

I took out the 980, and put in radeon 7750 for testing and it booted. 980 gave just blank screen and monitor went to sleep. The case is a bit shitty for long graphics cards, because the HDD mounting frame limits the lenght. I tried to fit GTX 1080 in there, but doesn't fit. Even the 980 was fitted with almost no tolerance.

It is in some cheap and nasty Antec case
20230430_140344366_iOS.jpg

Interior is fairly clean.
20230430_140231014_iOS.jpg

Processor
20230430_140158788_iOS.jpg

God damn some people throw out decent stuff. I could use this as my daily driver, if needed 😀

Very nice. I guess there's no accounting for taste since that case looks quite nice to me. I've made scores like that, but not in some time. Living in a wealthy area (while quite definitely not being wealthy myself) I've been amazed at the things I've sometimes seen being given away on Craigslist, but even wealthy people are affected by hard times and I've noticed a decline in the amount of high quality things being given away over the past couple of years.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2023-04-30, 16:23:

Very nice. I guess there's no accounting for taste since that case looks quite nice to me. I've made scores like that, but not in some time. Living in a wealthy area (while quite definitely not being wealthy myself) I've been amazed at the things I've sometimes seen being given away on Craigslist, but even wealthy people are affected by hard times and I've noticed a decline in the amount of high quality things being given away over the past couple of years.

I have no problem with the looks. I actually like this kind of simple clean looking cases without window, RGB and other nonsense. It's just clearly a budget case. HDD cage is not detachable to make room for graphics card, it's made of very thin metal, cable management possibilities are very limited etc...

I wonder what the original builder of this machine has been thinking. In front of the case there are two fans. One is directed in, other one is out. Rear and top fans are both exhaust. Rear fan is also dead.

Components in this machine are also a bit weird. This has clearly been a gaming rig. What's the point in choosing expensive X79 motherboard for such use? Especially if you don't put any fancy multi-core CPU or large amount of RAM in it? Seems like waste of money to me. Not that I complain, motherboard is definately the most interesting part in this machine.
I might buy a 12-core Xeon E5-2695v2 for it just for fun.

CrFr wrote on 2023-04-30, 14:50:

I don't know if this counts as retro yet, but I found this machine today. It was left next to the trash bins at my uncle's apart […]
Show full quote

I don't know if this counts as retro yet, but I found this machine today. It was left next to the trash bins at my uncle's apartment building. It looked mildly interesting, so it took it.

Inside was:
Asus P9X79 motherboard, socket 2011, 8x ram slots
Core i7-3920
16GB ram
Geforce GTX 980 (which seems to be dead, probably the reason for throwing this away)
500GB Samsung SSD
250+2000GB WD hard drives
Blueray / DVD-RW drive

I took out the 980, and put in radeon 7750 for testing and it booted. 980 gave just blank screen and monitor went to sleep. The case is a bit shitty for long graphics cards, because the HDD mounting frame limits the lenght. I tried to fit GTX 1080 in there, but doesn't fit. Even the 980 was fitted with almost no tolerance.

It is in some cheap and nasty Antec case
20230430_140344366_iOS.jpg

Interior is fairly clean.
20230430_140231014_iOS.jpg

Processor
20230430_140158788_iOS.jpg

God damn some people throw out decent stuff. I could use this as my daily driver, if needed 😀

Do you still have the GTX 980? Let me know.

Cheers,