VOGONS


First post, by Mod_Man_Extreme

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Hi there everyone! Long term lurker, first time poster, here!

Recently I've been bitten by the DOS bug and have gone out in search of a nice system to both play old DOS titles on, and also have proper period correct compatibility with all the sound cards I may wish to use. It took me a bit but eventually I ended up with quite a few different machines and pieces of hardware. Thanks in no short part to everyone on here as well while I lurked around and learned everything I could from here in my search.

While I managed to find a couple of Pentium machines (all P2's & P3's) and got everything up and running my holy grail was an attempt to find myself a really nice 'slimline' style system similar to the Unisys CWD line. As I prefer to find my hardware locally whenever possible this lead to a lot of fruitless searching until finally I bumped into a pair of DIGITAL DECpc LPV+ 425SX machines at my friend's old record shop. He was clearing out his back room and had long since thought that all of his original POS terminal PC's had been sent off to the recyclers. Lucky for me I got a matching pair of units so I have a complete set of spare parts. Also including the ability to steal the extra memory/zip chips off of one to upgrade the video RAM on the integrated S3 S3 86C805 (should be on an integrated VLB bus if I'm correct) from what I've seen. Both are 486SX's running at 25mhz, have 4MB of ram, one 615mb HDD, one 1gb HDD, and the bundle included 1 matching DIGITAL branded monitor and several mechanical Cherry branded keyboards (some with card readers, 🤣). Aside from having some very dusty innards they both seem to be working perfectly so far, and support 50MHZ 486 upgrades. However, when I tried upgrading the RAM from the stock 4MB I was greeted with several error messages and lots of angry beeping.

The DIGITAL brand, with 'Digital' meaning made by the Digital Equipment Corporation, which makes searching for info even harder as you won't get very far beyond generic results when looking for a 'digital' computer, 🤣. According to the information I've managed to find while looking at online these machines should support up to 32MB or 64MB of ram at maximum and only through either 72pin 4MB or 16MB simms with a latency of 70 or less. However whenever I add any of my existing 4MB Simms it refuses to boot, 8MB simms that meet the relevant requirements show up as 4MB simms along with the original one that came with the machine. Unfortunately I have no 16MB simms to check with compatibility wise. Secondly, the machine has started giving me 'Incorrect memory configuration' errors even with the original NEC branded ram stick installed back into place. I'm not sure where to go from here, and am completely and utterly lost in terms of what I'm doing as I grew up in the Pentium era. As a total newbie to anything 486, XT or AT it's a bit like incomprehensible black magic and incredibly rare here in NC. As a total newbie to these machines anything 486, XT or AT is like incomprehensible black magic and incredibly rare where I am, so any help would be appreciated.

I was unable to find ANY support for these online anywhere which is disappointing. According to some sources on a few forums Compaq used to have all of these drivers available as a part of their legacy support site as recently as 2010-2012 (Compaq/HP bought out DIGITAL in the mid-90's), but I had no such luck finding any. When I went around following any of the links I found on various other forums, and even going so far as to call HP/Compaq's support number, I pretty much hit a dead end. I was hoping to update the BIOS as it seems that there were several revisions thanks to both an archived eBay listing which shows a picture of a 1.04 BIOS (mine are 1.00) and the service manuals stating the maching accepts up to 64MB of RAM. The service manuals were both printed in 1996, a year after the computer's release, but make no mention of either the BIOS or anything else when stating upgrade capacities. So, I'm hoping someone on here can either help me out and potentially proivide BIOS upgrade files, or tell me what I need to look for when it comes to RAM or anything else.

Also, these machines use a clock 'chip' and not a traditional lithium/coin battery. How exactly does oner go about replacing these? Can they go bad and/or explode like older AT and ATX batteries, or are they driven by some sort of long-term charge, etc...?

Finally, I have attached both the service manual, and service guides, for anyone who is interested in helping out to have all the most complete information I could find. Any advice or info would be appreciated and I'm looking forward to whatever help anyone on here could provide!

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Reply 1 of 5, by vetz

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The RTC chip can be replaced, but it requires soldering skills if they are soldered stuck to the motherboard. Alteratively it can be hacked open and a new CR2032 coin battery attached. Haven't heard of any leakage from these, but they can go bad yes. I have a Socket 4 board from 1994 with the DS12887 chip still going strong, but other boards from 1997 are dead.

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Reply 2 of 5, by chinny22

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Does sound strange that RAM from 1 PC doesn't work in the other. Do both PC's do the same thing?
I've had PCs bring up errors after removing RAM, Usually entering BIOS fixes this. Many 486's don't understand 8MB sticks, also note early 486's don't like EDO ram which is also 72pin.

The battery commonly called a Dallas RTC (Real Time Clock) fix can be found here, But If you have the luxury of 2 PC's I would use which ever keeps correct time/date settings after turning off if either do
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2009 … attery-chip.htm

HP only changed their website about 6 months ago, Before then a lot of the Compaq stuff was still there, not sure about DEC stuff though. The downloads are still available ftp but takes ages to sort though it ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products

A lot of companies are killing off their really old "archived" product support pages. Its such a pain, I don't care if they don't update the pages to match the modern look, but old drivers/manuals cant take up that much space with storage as cheap as it is these days.

Reply 3 of 5, by TandySensation

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Not directly related to your post but though I put this out there. I recently setup a 486 and the problem I was having is the BIOS will 'see' up to a 8GB disk but while in DOS I was hitting the 528 limit with Fdisk.

I used MaxBlast boot disk to format the disk, it installed a boot loader that does a translation letting me use a large disk. I have a Compact Flash adapter and two CF cards for it. One is 2GB with DOS and the other is 16GB with Windows 98se installed. Both have the entire disk available as a single partition which is nice not having to worry about running out of room.

Because the 486 can't boot from a CD and my CD is SCSI that I couldn't find a boot disk for it ended up moving the CF adapter and cards to another system to copy files/installer to it.

Reply 4 of 5, by creepingnet

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RAM issue could be that your using non Parity SIMMS in a machine that requires Parity RAM.

I know that during the 486 era, some companies (IBM, Compaq, and I think Dell) REQUIRED using Parity RAM, actually, HP and Compaq both tend to be very persnickety about the memory modules used - just ask my Compaq Portable 486C. The same goes for some other OEMs. That might be why the DEC was "angry" about it's newly found RAM.

Typically an odd number of chips = parity
Even number of chips = non-parity

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Reply 5 of 5, by DeafPK

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I can confirm the need for parity ram in these DEC's, I've got one myself. I put in a 32MB parity SIMM and the computer recognizes 16 megabytes. Quickly explained, parity RAM is has 9 bits instead of the usual 8 bits. The last one bit is for double-checking so your data shouldn't go corrupt that easily.

As for the clock battery, mine uses a separate 4.5 battery in a little black box, that is connected to the motherboard with a 4-pin cable. That was really easy to hack into a 3 x 1.5v AAA cmos battery.

If you are considering soldering off the four VRAMs from one motherboard to slot into the other, I would recommend you to properly test both boards and SIMM combinations, just in case there is a malfunctioning part somewhere... 😀

Good luck! 😀

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