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CPU Challenge - Windows 98

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First post, by squareguy

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Hello all, I lay down this CPU challenge for all Windows 98 builds. Let's face it, nobody ran games in software mode at high resolutions when Windows 98 reigned supreme because nothing was capable of doing so. Now we are building monstrous machines capable of running Windows 98 and I would like to see a benchmark to judge them by. I am currently building the fastest Windows 98 machine I have ever owned and I would love to see some comparisons. I do not expect to come out on top since I will not be overclocking any CPU's or FSB's on my box. It will be running 100% within designers specifications. At least we can see some real world CPU measure under Windows 98 and I think this may be a lot of fun! So, who is in?

Rules:

1. Use any computer hardware you want, overclock it as much as you want, use liquid nitrogen cooling... the sky is the limit.
2. The computer MUST be running Windows 98 and with official driver support.
3. Have fun and post results!

Download Quake 2 demo if you do not own the game here.
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake2/q2-314-demo-x86.exe

Update Quake 2 to version 3.20 here.
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake2/q2-3.20-x86.exe

You can check your version of Quake 2 by typing 'version' in the console and hitting enter

Running the Time Demo

EDIT: I would like to see submissions running at 1280x960 where possible.

Start Quake 2
Hit ~ key to bring down console
Type 'timedemo 1' and hit enter key
Type 'map demo1.dm2' and hit enter key
Hit ~ key to leave console
Look at results and post them

P.S. I would love to see some challenges from other users and I would like to participate in them too!

Last edited by squareguy on 2015-07-07, 00:57. Edited 1 time in total.

Gateway 2000 Case and 200-Watt PSU
Intel SE440BX-2 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III 450 CPU
Micron 384MB SDRAM (3x128)
Compaq Voodoo3 3500 TV Graphics Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Western Digital 7200-RPM, 8MB-Cache, 160GB Hard Drive
Windows 98 SE

Reply 1 of 25, by squareguy

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ASRock 775I65G Motherboard, Intel 865G Chipset, LGA 775 Socket
Intel Celeron 450 CPU, 2.20-GHz

1280x960 = 35.1 frames-per-second

Gateway 2000 Case and 200-Watt PSU
Intel SE440BX-2 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III 450 CPU
Micron 384MB SDRAM (3x128)
Compaq Voodoo3 3500 TV Graphics Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Western Digital 7200-RPM, 8MB-Cache, 160GB Hard Drive
Windows 98 SE

Reply 3 of 25, by squareguy

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I got my Pentium E5800 in finally! This is the fastest CPU I can put on my motherboard (Asrock 775I65G) without overclocking the front-side bus. Here are the results, I decided to post all resolutions in case folks wanted to figure out the scaling.

Quake2 3.20, software renderer, default settings, demo1.dm2, Windows 98 SE

1280x960: 54.2
1152x864: 64.8
1024x768: 79.4
960x720: 88.0
800x600: 116.1
640x480: 162.5
512x384: 226.3
400x300: 308.0
320x240: 418.6

Gateway 2000 Case and 200-Watt PSU
Intel SE440BX-2 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III 450 CPU
Micron 384MB SDRAM (3x128)
Compaq Voodoo3 3500 TV Graphics Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Western Digital 7200-RPM, 8MB-Cache, 160GB Hard Drive
Windows 98 SE

Reply 4 of 25, by PhilsComputerLab

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This sounds like fun!

Could you maybe pick two, or three resolutions to compare?

1280 x 960 for sure, and maybe 640 x 480 for some of the slower machines.

Your machine is a beast, that's for sure. Sooo tempted to pull the trigger on that motherboard 🤣

Here is a result for my AMD K6-III+ 400 MHz (66 MHz x 6) on a Gigabyte GA-5AX:

640 x 480: 9.6

Edit, in software mode I can't seem to be able to go full screen. The machine has a Voodoo 3.

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Reply 6 of 25, by Standard Def Steve

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That's really interesting. So a P2-400 is nearly 3x faster than a K6-III 400 in this game. 😲

I'll have to run this test on my own dedicated Win98 box, a Celeron-1400/BX.

94 MHz NEC VR4300 | SGI Reality CoPro | 8MB RDRAM | Each game gets its own SSD - nooice!

Reply 7 of 25, by Skyscraper

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Standard Def Steve wrote:

That's really interesting. So a P2-400 is nearly 3x faster than a K6-III 400 in this game. 😲

I'll have to run this test on my own dedicated Win98 box, a Celeron-1400/BX.

My guess is that the memory bandwidth is a serious bottleneck. A K6-3+ @400MHz with 66 MHz FSB normally only reaches ~100MB/s while the P2 400 often reaches up to 300MB/s in memory bandwidth.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 8 of 25, by noshutdown

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my computer may not qualify for this challenge as its running winxp, but i would like to post for a reference:
e8400 oc 3.6g, p45 board, 4gb ddr2-800 cl4, nvidia gts250
1024*768 resolution, software renderer
crusher demo: 126fps
demo1: 152fps

also both quake2 and quake3 seemed to have a timedemo ceiling of around 1000fps, their timedemo results always get stuck at ~900fps no matter how fast your computer is or how low the graphics settings are.
quake2's timerefresh command(which performs a 360 degree turn) doesn't seem to have this limit though, and the fastest result i have seen is around 13000fps if my remembered it right.

Reply 9 of 25, by PhilsComputerLab

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Skyscraper wrote:

[

My guess is that the memory bandwidth is a serious bottleneck. A K6-3+ @400MHz with 66 MHz FSB normally only reaches ~100MB/s while the P2 400 often reaches up to 300MB/s in memory bandwidth.

The system is indeed running at 66 x 6 = 400 MHZ 😀

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Reply 10 of 25, by Standard Def Steve

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I finally got around to running this on my decked out Dimension T550.

Celeron 1.4GHz on a Lin-Lin adapter on an Asus Slotket on the Dell version of the Intel SE440BX-3 motherboard.
512MB PC100 2-2-2
Voodoo3 3000 AGP
Aureal SQ2500 Vortex 2 PCI audio
SB AWE64 ISA audio
Win98SE

320x240: 111.2
640x480: 54.4
800x600: 42.0
1024x768: 29.3
1280x960: 20.6

94 MHz NEC VR4300 | SGI Reality CoPro | 8MB RDRAM | Each game gets its own SSD - nooice!

Reply 12 of 25, by squareguy

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Yeah I think memory is playing a larger factor than I would have thought. We are having to move all of the pixels from CPU to RAM instead of locally on the graphic card's much faster memory bus.

The E5800 is pushing about 67 megapixels (1280x960x54-fps) across the memory bus. That is pretty amazing. It makes sense, that's why graphic cards memory subsystems are so incredibly fast.

This does make me think about a crazy idea. With the advent of GP-GPU (general purpose GPU programming) you might be able to write a software renderer in something like OpenCL and still have incredible speed, relatively speaking.

Gateway 2000 Case and 200-Watt PSU
Intel SE440BX-2 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III 450 CPU
Micron 384MB SDRAM (3x128)
Compaq Voodoo3 3500 TV Graphics Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Western Digital 7200-RPM, 8MB-Cache, 160GB Hard Drive
Windows 98 SE

Reply 13 of 25, by boxpressed

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A quick test on a new build:

SOYO K7VTA PRO 1.0 (KT133A)
AMD ATHLON XP 2400+
VIA AC'97 ONBOARD AUDIO
GEFORCE 4 TI4600
128MB PC100 SDRAM

1280X960: 24.5

I'll run this again once my 512MB of CAS2 PC133 SDRAM arrives.

Reply 14 of 25, by Skyscraper

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Celeron 466@466MHz, FSB 66MHz, Gigabyte BX2000+, memory 66MHz CL 2-2-2. The video card is a PCI Voodoo 3 but it should not matter as the CPU is doing all the work.

OS: Windows 98SE, no tweaks some bloat.

1280*960: 9.0 FPS

A side note.

Im using Quake II as one of the benchmarks in my Slot-1 benchmarking project with a Voodoo 3. An issue I am having is that I have to use the standard Open-GL setting as the 3dFX Open GL setting is all too bright. Its a bit irritating as the 3dfx Open GL setting is 25% faster, not that it matters as the scaling seems to be OK with the standard Open-GL setting and its the scaling I care about. Does anyone know why the 3dFX Open-GL setting looks like crap?

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 15 of 25, by konc

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Just a suggestion: shouldn't 1024x768 be an option since some of us like to use a matching monitor with our retro-builds? My ordinary 15" CRT can't do more than that and probably that's what many, if not most, people had back then with a Win98 PC. I guess it was the turning point towards higher resolution and size CRT's as well the first LCD's but still, I believe the majority had similar monitors

Reply 16 of 25, by boxpressed

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Same board, different components.

SOYO K7VTA PRO 1.0 (KT133A)
AMD ATHLON XP 2400+
AUREAL VORTEX 2
3DFX VOODOO 3 3500
256MB PC133 CAS2 SDRAM

1280X960: 28.0

Reply 17 of 25, by Soulreaper

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Biostar M7VIG Pro
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0 GHz
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
512 MB PC166
1280x960: 160.4
1024x768: 167.2
800x600: 170.8
640x480: 172.4
320x240: 171.7
I also ran the benchmark on my voodoo 3
1280x960: 44.7
1024x768: 66.6
800x600: 101.3
640x480: 141.2
320x240: 205.1

98se/Biostar M7VIG Pro/AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0 GHz/512 MB @ 166/ATI Radeon 9800 Pro/3DFX Voodoo 3 2000/CreativeSBLive!
XP Pro/Asus P5N-D/Intel Qx9650 Quad Core@4.0GHz/4GB DDR2 800/nVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+ SLI/Creative Audigy 2 ZS
sc-55 mkii

Reply 19 of 25, by Soulreaper

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Socket3 wrote on 2020-07-12, 21:38:

The challenge was to run Quake 2 in software mode.

I thought about that after I posted. Here are the software mode results.
24.9
35.1
51.7
70.1
142.8

98se/Biostar M7VIG Pro/AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0 GHz/512 MB @ 166/ATI Radeon 9800 Pro/3DFX Voodoo 3 2000/CreativeSBLive!
XP Pro/Asus P5N-D/Intel Qx9650 Quad Core@4.0GHz/4GB DDR2 800/nVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+ SLI/Creative Audigy 2 ZS
sc-55 mkii