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Voodoo3 Cooling

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First post, by Kodai

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So a couple of weeks ago on another thread A Voodoo 3, Vortex 2, Slot 1 based Glide machine I kept talking about doing a cooling mod for the Voodoo3 using the Evercool VC-RF fansink. I didn't want to take over somebody's thread to post some prelim's, so I decided to just make a new thread. I see that there was a thread last year about cooling the Voodoo3 and KT7AGuy posted his attempt at this same mod. Here is that thread. Oops, I think I killed my Voodoo3

I found out that this is a very easy and effective mod on my V3 3500. I ran a number of temps before and after, using a number of methods. I'll give system specs before test methodology below.

Asus P2B-F
PIII 1.4GHz in PowerLeap PL-IP3/T ver 2
1GB PC133 RAM
AWE32 CT3980 (32MB sinstalled)
Trendnet TEG-PCITXR NIC
HDD and DVD are modern SATA using IDE to SATA adaptors
Windows 98SE with SP3.42

I do wish I had done some greater testing before I did the mod as I forgot to test the back of the board. I will be doing this mod again in the near future and a very special one in the next few months that will be just outright silly. Waiting on some extra parts to get in and time to do it.

Room temp was 23C average:
Anyway, I started with a cheap but reliable little IR temp probe (as I managed to lose my Fluke 62 a few months back when packing tools up to be moved to newly built workshop - doh). I found the center of the stock heatsink on idle was an average 52C and under load from 30minutes of Unreal Gold a toasty average of 70C. The RAM was much better, at an average of 42C idle and 55C under load. The power transistor in the lower left was almost as hot as the GPU at 64C under load (forgot to check idle temp, sorry). The little chip next to the GPU was also about 58C under load and yes I again forgot to check idle. The little chip with the sticker (I think its the cards BIOS) doesn't get that warm at all so I left it alone.

So after that I decided to compare with my calibrated Fluke 87V and a simple, clean K-Type probe. I used a tiny bit of blue painters tape to secure it to the test areas. The 87 read pretty close to the IR probe, but on average about 3 degrees lower. That was across the board on the same tests. So assuming that both units are reasonably correct, then we can see this little card give off some serious heat.

I do not know if this is average for a Voodoo3 3500, or high, or low. All I know is its fairly hot and I wanted to do something about it. The Evercool VC-RF is a single slot solution and I have used it a couple of times over the years to great effect. I had high hopes it would help on this little feller. As it turned out, it was almost perfect. Almost being the operative word.

So first things first, prep the card. I've found more often than not, that freezing parts to remove thermal adhesive is not as effective as direct heat. So I pulled out my rework station and set the temp to 300C. Popped the two holding pins from the board. Grabbed the rework gun and went to town on the center of the heatsink for about 45 seconds. Set the gun down and grabbed a large pair of channel locks. Placed it on the top and bottom edges of the heatsink near the middle. Gave it a bit of a clockwise turn and it popped right off. Very quick and simple. Most of the thermal gunk came off on the heatsink and very little was left on the GPU. I was saddened to see that the GPU was cased in plastic. I was hoping it was metal so I could lapp it, and use a liquid metal TIM. It just wasn't meant to be, oh well.

From there I did a thorough cleaning with Arcticlean to all the chips other than the BIOS. Then I lined up the new copper fansink with the mounting holes only to find that it was slightly to big to be used. To the left of the GPU there is a little clock crystal, while just below is the AGP slot. The holes seem to be about 43 and 1/2MM spaced. The Evercool is spaced at 43mm. Hmmm, I thought. Its still a good chance it will seat firm and level if I can so something about the crystal and AGP slot. So I marked off the areas that were overhang, and used a bench grinder to grind them down. I removed the fan and took the heatsink to the grinder. After 5 minutes of grinding, it was right were I marked it. I went and lined it back up on the card and it was a great fit. From there I used an xacto blade to remove the copper splinters that had come through to the inside via the little ducts in the heatsink. Only took a few minutes. Then I gave it a thorough cleaning with hot soapy watter and Arcticlean to finish it off. Next I reinstalled the fan. From there, I put a little dab of MX-2 on the center of the GPU and installed the fansink using the included spring loaded push pins. The extra half mm spacing was not an issue at all. The fansink was seated firmly and centered on the GPU like it was made for it.

Now for the RAM. The Evercool VC-RF kit comes with 8 aluminum ram sinks (copper colored of course). They are large enough that three of them will cover the top row of RAM and three more will cover the RAM on the right. That leaves two unused RAM sinks. So I put them on the power transistor and the chip next to the GPU. Now I have never ever had a heatsink fall off from using thermal tape when I used Arcticlean and some good old elbow grease. I have indeed had them drom from using 91% isopropyl alcohol. More so on chips that are made with plastic. From what I can tell, its because isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a very thin film layer and on plastic it causes thermal tape to not adhere or helps it to break free over time with heat. So if anybody follows my recommendations for this, I consider Arcticlean to be a key element.

Optimized-Voodoo3%20AGP%20with%20EVERCOOL%20VC-RF.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Its now an actively cooled, single slot Voodoo3 3500 for under $15.00 and a total of 30-35 minutes of effort. The temp drops were well worth it. Running the same tests, the GPU under load is now in the high 40's / low 50's and the ram bounces in between the low to mid 30's. The power transistor and chip next to the GPU are in the low 40's. Its a very quiet fan so it will not annoy the user. The only real drawback is the LED. Yeah, I don't like it at all. Its an SMD LED so you can just clip the anode. Oh well. I still have yet to mount this in a case and when I do it will have two 120mm fans on the case door for the system bus. This will provided plenty of directly cooled outside air that will help temps even more. I will report back on that when I build a system with this little card. That may be a few months. I'll just post to this thread to give further details. When the card is installed you cant see the areas of the fansink that were ground off, so it looks good (besides that stupid LED).

The Evercool VC-RF as seen in the pic, has a three pin fan plug that fits right on a three pin mobo header. If you have a mobo that does not have one or its to far away, the kit also comes with a three pin to molex adaptor. So this cooler should work for anybody's system. Again, I cant recommend this little guy enough. I would highly recommend a bench grinder but a vise/clamp and a dremel could be used (would be a real pain as its really thick copper). Here in the U.S. el-cheapo 6" bench grinders can be found on sale for as little as $20.00 and you can find lots of other uses for them. But try to avoid the cheap units and stick to the $60-$80 range and 8" grinders, unless you don't think you will use it that much. When cleaning the chips with the Arcticlean, use some effort. Don't just lightly wipe them down or dab them with a qtip. A coffee filter or better yet a cheap box of kem wipes is worth having to do the cleaning with.

Here is the finished results:

Well let me know what you guys think of it.

***EDIT***

I wanted to point out that I also have a Voodoo3 3000 and while the 3500 is a larger board with extra "bits" here and there, the spacing for the RAM, GPU, power transistor, clock crystal, and other chips is about the same. I don't want to say they are identical, but I cant see any difference with out measuring. So I would assume 3Dfx/STB kept the spacing the same on all the AGP V3's. This would indicate that the same areas would have to be ground down to make the cooler fit, but it should fit all AGP V3's. I wont say its the same for the PCI variants, as I don't have one. But looking at pics online of them, it looks pretty much the same to me. Your millage may vary though.

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Last edited by Kodai on 2015-07-07, 15:51. Edited 5 times in total.

Reply 2 of 35, by Kodai

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To be honest, I didn't try that and I've started rebuilding the test system with other hardware. I will try that in the near future when I build a new box with this card. Also, I would assume that the card would stand a better than average chance anyway as its a 3500 and not the regular 3000. The 2000 and 3500 were often able to reach 200MHz.

Reply 3 of 35, by PhilsComputerLab

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My version of V3 cooling mod. Using items that most of us have lying around 😀

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszC13E-B-k

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Reply 4 of 35, by Evert

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That's beautifully done Kodai! I don't know why, but I almost have an obsession with improving the cooling of these old cards and making them run 'til kingdom come. Are you going to run the fan at full speed (12V) or maybe 5V/7V?

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Reply 5 of 35, by Kodai

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philscomputerlab wrote:

My version of V3 cooling mod. Using items that most of us have lying around 😀

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszC13E-B-k

Oh, I'm well aware of your V3 mod Phil. I think its a very creative and super simple and should be considered if basic cooling is all that's wanted. But for something that's a little better looking, just as quiet, and keeps the card in a single slot solution, I felt something else was required.

Evert wrote:

That's beautifully done Kodai! I don't know why, but I almost have an obsession with improving the cooling of these old cards and making them run 'til kingdom come. Are you going to run the fan at full speed (12V) or maybe 5V/7V?

I run the fan at full. The little bugger is one of the quietest 40mm fans I've ever heard at full load and pushes a lot of air. In fact, you can feel the air come off the fins and move to the RAM sinks. A bonus for the RAM being so close to such a hot GPU.

EDIT

Phil, I would seriously consider an update to your mod. The rubber bands are a very weak link. I would suggest a large zip tie instead. When elastic ages it weakens and breaks. Same when its exposed to heat. Put the two together and its gonna fail sooner rather than later. Since all it would do is keep the fan from tilting, the large zip tie does not need to be pulled tightly. Just enough to keep the fan from leaning via the left corner.

Reply 6 of 35, by Evert

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Kodai wrote:
Oh, I'm well aware of your V3 mod Phil. I think its a very creative and super simple and should be considered if basic cooling […]
Show full quote
philscomputerlab wrote:

My version of V3 cooling mod. Using items that most of us have lying around 😀

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszC13E-B-k

Oh, I'm well aware of your V3 mod Phil. I think its a very creative and super simple and should be considered if basic cooling is all that's wanted. But for something that's a little better looking, just as quiet, and keeps the card in a single slot solution, I felt something else was required.

Evert wrote:

That's beautifully done Kodai! I don't know why, but I almost have an obsession with improving the cooling of these old cards and making them run 'til kingdom come. Are you going to run the fan at full speed (12V) or maybe 5V/7V?

I run the fan at full. The little bugger is one of the quietest 40mm fans I've ever heard at full load and pushes a lot of air. In fact, you can feel the air come off the fins and move to the RAM sinks. A bonus for the RAM being so close to such a hot GPU.

EDIT

Phil, I would seriously consider an update to your mod. The rubber bands are a very weak ping. I would suggest a large zip tie instead. When elastic ages it weakens and breaks. Same when its exposed to heat. Put the two together and its gonna fail sooner rather than later. Since all it would do is keep the fan from tilting, the large zip tie does not need to be pulled tightly. Just enough to keep the fan from leaning via the left corner.

That's really great to hear. I'm quite picky when it comes to noise and computers I run almost all my fans at reduced speed or I buy extremely quiet coolers.

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Reply 7 of 35, by Kodai

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Its not silent, but very quiet at full and not what I would consider a high pitch. That's what impresses me about a 40mm fan. Kinda unheard of, yet it pushes a lot of air at the same time. But even if you have to run it at reduced speed, you will find that the copper heatsink is really doing most of the work as its very thick and can really deal with a fairly large amount of heat for its size. So you wouldn't have to worry about drastic loss in cooling.

Last edited by Kodai on 2015-07-07, 22:36. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 8 of 35, by PhilsComputerLab

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Tie at the front didn't work well, because it prevents the card from fully inserting into the AGP slot. The second rubber band is the "backup" 😊

But I'll check it out tomorrow, see if I find something suitable.

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Reply 9 of 35, by Kodai

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Hmmm, maybe a small bead of hot glue at the places where the fan comes in contact with the heatsink. That would also be an easy to remove option for changing the fan.

Last edited by Kodai on 2015-07-07, 22:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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Kodai,

You did what I should have done: make the HSF fit the card, rather than making the card fit the HSF. I just didn't have a grinder or the bravery to use a dremel on it. I tell myself that using epoxy was OK because the fans on the VC-RE and VC-RF can be easily replaced if they fail.

Will you be fitting a fan to the back of your card? I'm interested to know what your testing might reveal regarding the temperatures on the back. My V3 mods are so sloppy and amateurish compared to yours and Maximus'. Even though the VC-RE/RF mod keeps it a single-slot solution, I thought that Maximus' mod was probably far more effective with his attachment of the rear fan. Perhaps your testing can disprove that hypothesis? If not, maybe you can come up with a more elegant method of attaching a rear fan without the original heatsink's attachment holes.

Anyway, great job! I'm impressed!

Reply 11 of 35, by Kodai

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Howdy KT7AGuy,

I didn't write down the temps from the back and I only used the IR probe, but I remember that the temps were fairly close to the GPU. With such a major drop from the fansink, I don't feel the back needs any extra cooling. PCB's are terrible at thermal conduction, so trying to cool the back will offer limited advantage. I might consider sticking a 40mm copper heatsink on it with that puffy thermal tape. Given the case can have 120mm fans on the side panel in line with the bus, it will be an effective way of cooling without the need of a second fan. It's something I'll consider playing with in the next few weeks.

So how are the temps on yours since you used thermal epoxy? I've used a number of them for many tasks over the years and it's served me well. I bet it's not much under what I'm seeing with my mod.

Reply 12 of 35, by SPBHM

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very nice, I think my Voodoo 4 would benefit from a similar treatment, while it have active cooling from factory the small heatsink and fan are hardly that good and it gets pretty warm, also the fan is very old and more noisy than it used to, for now my solution is a well positioned 80mm fan inside the case and it seems to do the trick, also removing the glued heatsink is a pain, I remember doing it once and almost destroying that card.

I always thought the standard voodoo 3 cooling was very lacking, well, it was the same with the voodoo 2 (nothing at all and mine overheats/crashes without the case fan near it), 3dfx didn't invest much in cooling...

Reply 13 of 35, by Kodai

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I'm currently working on some sort of practical (and hopefully effective), cooling method for the V1, V2 (single or SLI), V4, and V5. As I don't own a V4, I can only assume that whatever I figure out for my V5 will be good for the V4, but in a single version. My V5 is a dead one, and I think its the cards MOSFET. I'll have to play with that more in the next couple of months as I have time. Too many projects going right now, 🤣.

I prefer the V2 for my primary 98 rig as it lets me use more advanced cards for the primary video. I just like to revisit glide from time to time as I had both the V1 and V2 SLI back in the day. I use a V1 in my DOS rig. Both are cramped so whatever solution I come up with will have to be single slot, and more than likely will work in conjunction with directed airflow from modern cases. That means a vintage case could hinder my mods a good bit. Since I tend to hate the generic beige box of the 90's, I have no problem with using a modern case for my retro builds. I'm sure many here will not want to, so I'm trying to think of something universal that anybody can use but may be best in a modern case.

I'm pretty sure that the method I go with on the V4 and V5 is going to be a two slot method. I just don't know if those two little holes will be enough to hold several of the coolers I have in mind, and the smaller ones just might not be much better than the stock coolers. I may have to design and fabricate a custom bracket that will work without flexing or stressing the PCB. If so, that will take quite some time. If I ever finish it, I will of course post it here at Vogons.

As for removing the heatsinks, I see that the V5 uses a thermal epoxy. The V3 (at least the ones that I own) used an oddball bit of thermal tape. The tape is a piece of metal with a very stiff glue on both sides. Lots of CPU heatsinks for AMD had that crap on it in the late 90's and early 2000's. Really poor performing stuff. Its pretty simple to remove if you have the right tools and a bit of practice. I use direct heat from one of my solder reflow systems. I keep the temp at about 300 and kinda have a feel for how long to heat up an area based on the material and thickness. Once that's done, I just twist it off with a pair of pliers. Never had a problem in nearly a decade of using that method. The whole freezing thing just never worked that well for me.

The thermal epoxy just requires lots of patience and effort. Heat it up a bit, and xacto or razor blade for a bit. Wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseam. Then when the heatsink is off, comes the hard part. Cleaning the chip of the epoxy. Major PITA, and can take way to long. Spending 20-30 minutes to prep a chip is always something I dread. The V3 took me about 5 minutes from start to clean chip. I think those V5 chips are going to be a project I sit and watch a movie or catch up on missed TV shows while I work on them. We'll see when I get to it.

Reply 14 of 35, by PhilsComputerLab

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Sounds like fun 😀

I believe for V1 and V2, you can get passive heat sinks from eBay that fit on all the chips.

V4 and V5, the solution should indeed be identical. The V5 just has two chips instead of one.

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Reply 15 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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Kodai wrote:

Howdy KT7AGuy,

I didn't write down the temps from the back and I only used the IR probe, but I remember that the temps were fairly close to the GPU. With such a major drop from the fansink, I don't feel the back needs any extra cooling. PCB's are terrible at thermal conduction, so trying to cool the back will offer limited advantage. I might consider sticking a 40mm copper heatsink on it with that puffy thermal tape. Given the case can have 120mm fans on the side panel in line with the bus, it will be an effective way of cooling without the need of a second fan. It's something I'll consider playing with in the next few weeks.

So how are the temps on yours since you used thermal epoxy? I've used a number of them for many tasks over the years and it's served me well. I bet it's not much under what I'm seeing with my mod.

I've never actually measured the temps on my card, but I don't burn my fingers if I touch it now. I think your solution is superior to mine, so I would assume that mine runs 1-2 C warmer than yours.

I'm actually slightly concerned about having used the thermal epoxy with the VC-RE and its mirror-smooth mating surface. I have to wonder if a good bond was actually made because I removed the mounting clamp. It's really only held on by the epoxy now.

I think you're right that the back side of the V3 probably doesn't need a fan if you're already using one on the front of the card. However, it can't hurt and I don't feel like removing it. If it dies, I'll leave it off.

On my other systems with V3 cards, I plan to remove the OEM heatsinks and replace the old epoxy with MX2 TIM. I'll mount a fan on the side to cool both the V3 and other nearby components. It's less hassle, and I really don't like working with thermal epoxy. It smells terrible and it's too permanent.

Reply 16 of 35, by Kodai

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philscomputerlab wrote:

Sounds like fun 😀

I believe for V1 and V2, you can get passive heat sinks from eBay that fit on all the chips.

V4 and V5, the solution should indeed be identical. The V5 just has two chips instead of one.

I have a ton of heatsinks, and always find a reason to get more. Been collecting and using them them since the 80's, as I used to overclock 286's with crystal swaps. I found AMD 286's to be the best at overclocking. Anyway, if I don't have it (and I have hundreds upon hundreds tucked away in boxes and trays), I'll find something else or make it fit one way or the other. I would like to think that something other than 30-40mm chipset heatsinks would be better for the V1 and V2. Thermal tape will be the first route I go, but if need be I will resort to epoxy. That's always the last ditch effort. Sometimes though, a sink is just to heavy or awkwardly placed so epoxy is the only option. That's when I have to decide if the almost permanent nature of the mod is truly worth it. Of course the goal is to keep it effective and single slot. Active is very hard to achieve when dealing going for single slot, and more so with a cramped bus. I may try the Evercool again on the V1. The fansink is pretty heavy and I don't think thermal tape is going to work. So if I try that on either card, I will have to test it for a few months with some sort of clip to hold on to the fansink if it breaks free from the mount. The V2's on the other hand may require the use of ....

I just had an idea while typing. It may work for the V1's as well. I'll have to go through my parts and see if I have what I'm looking for (I think I ran out several years ago), but it may do the trick for both cards. If I have to find/order the stuff then it will be a few weeks/months but I will let you know if it works. Either way, over the next few days I will test the temps of these cards and see just what parts really need active cooling vs passive.

KT7AGuy wrote:
I've never actually measured the temps on my card, but I don't burn my fingers if I touch it now. I think your solution is supe […]
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I've never actually measured the temps on my card, but I don't burn my fingers if I touch it now. I think your solution is superior to mine, so I would assume that mine runs 1-2 C warmer than yours.

I'm actually slightly concerned about having used the thermal epoxy with the VC-RE and its mirror-smooth mating surface. I have to wonder if a good bond was actually made because I removed the mounting clamp. It's really only held on by the epoxy now.

I think you're right that the back side of the V3 probably doesn't need a fan if you're already using one on the front of the card. However, it can't hurt and I don't feel like removing it. If it dies, I'll leave it off.

On my other systems with V3 cards, I plan to remove the OEM heatsinks and replace the old epoxy with MX2 TIM. I'll mount a fan on the side to cool both the V3 and other nearby components. It's less hassle, and I really don't like working with thermal epoxy. It smells terrible and it's too permanent.

Well depending on how good your mount is, it may cool better than mine. If your fansink is off center to the GPU then it can provide better cooling to the GPU. The chip itself is in the center of the GPU package. The fan in the fansik is in the center of the fansink and its not just a dead zone for air, its also a heat generator from the fans motor. In short, the hottest part of the GPU will now be topped with something else that creates heat (and that copper heatsink helps in keeping that heat right on top). Of course the rest of the sink draws the heat like a sponge and the air from the blades cools it off, so it removes more heat than it generates. But by being off center, it can more effectively move heat from the GPU itself. The drawback to your mount is the VERY close proximity of the cards RAM. Clearly the fansink is resting into the center of the upper row of RAM on your mount. The fansink can only dissipate so many watts and adding the heat from two more chips will push that. If it was a GPU that only hit 30C - 40C then I wouldn't blink an eye for that little cooler. In fact, it would be a better option as it would be more than enough to help with cooling at least a couple of those RAM chips. But boy those RAM chips and that GPU run very hot and it may be a combo that the little fansink can barely keep up with.

It would be great if you could get some temps. If your off center mount works better, then maybe this kit with thermal tape instead of epoxy might be a better choice. It just depends of that the little fansink is rated for. I cant seem to find the thermal specs for the little bugger, just keep seeing size info.

Anyway, you don't have to worry about the epoxy coming free. Its there for life. While the VC-RE seems pretty smooth, its surface is rough enough to make a good bond with that stuff. That is unless you used a dirty surface. I've only managed to break that Arctic Alumina twice before without breaking the chips its attached to. Even with super tiny 6.5mm MOSFETS, the Arctic Alumina will break the package in half if you try to remove whatever is attached. Trust me, I learned that the hard way almost a decade ago. Nowadays I stick to Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive instead of Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina. The main reason being that its easier to break free and clean if the need arises. The temps are close enough that one does not really out do the other. But the downside to Thermal Adhesive is its electrically capacitive and you have to pay close attention to what your doing so the epoxy does get anywhere near pins or electrical contact points.

Reply 17 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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As you noticed, I too was concerned about the HSF coming into contact with the RAM when I mounted it. While it does cover the the top of some of the RAM, it doesn't come into contact with it. There is a thin gap between the HSF and chips. As you also noticed, it is indeed off-center on the GPU. After reading your comments, I'm pleasantly surprised to find that this may actually be an advantage! I've always thought it was just sloppy work on my part.

Reply 18 of 35, by Marmes

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I did it on mine like this:
I had a broken radeon with a nice heatsink with fan, made 2 holes on the oposite sides and voilá 😁

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Reply 19 of 35, by KT7AGuy

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Marmes,

Do you have any more photos of your card that you can share? It almost looks like the heatsink would block the card from being seated fully in the AGP socket.

I really think your idea is fantastic and may be an improvement on Kodai's solution. Rather than grind down another VC-RE/RF, it might make more sense to use a drill press to create new mounting holes as you've done with that Radeon cooler.

My father has a drill press that I was going to be playing with over the next week anyway. I wanted to cut some holes in cases to improve cooling, but I can also bring a spare VC-RF with me. I'm willing to sacrifice it to the VOGONS gods if we can come up with a better actively cooled single-slot solution for the Voodoo 3 cards. If you guys can come up with ideas and tell me where to drill, I'll try it out.

Of course, we may all be overthinking this. Last year, Darksheer mentioned that he used some cheapo eBay coolers to accomplish this same task. It looks like the mounting holes on the cards are 55mm apart, so it should just be a matter of finding a more compatible HSF than the VC-RE/RF