VOGONS


First post, by lvader

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hi,

I’m new here so please be gentle 😀

I’m into retro gaming but so far I’d not done anything PC wise, mainly 8 bit and 16 bit Commodore and Ataris and Sega, Nintendo games consoles. I originally got into PC gaming in the early 90’s and I have very fond memories or playing Lucasfilm adventure games, Wing Commander and my all-time favourite game Ultima 7. One thing that made that era very special for me was the sound of my Roland LAPC-I. I’ve lost count of how many PC builds I’ve gone through over the years but the only thing I kept from the early years is the Roland sound card and it’s been sitting in a draw for nearly 20 years unused.

For the last year I’ve been umming and ahhing about building/buying an old PC to see if the Roland still works and so I can play all my old favourites again. Finally I saw something suitable on Ebay and decided to go for it.

The PC specs are;

80486 VIP motherboard with 4 PCI, 2 VLB/ISA and 2 ISA, 256Kb L2 cache (fake )
Intel 486DX4100-S (16kb L1)
16 MB RAM
2 x 540MB IDE HD
CD Rom
WD VLB Graphics card
Yamaha chip based 16 bit ISA OPL3 sound card

Software wise it has DOS 6.22, Windows 95 and Win 3.11 (workgroups)

By default it boots into Windows 95, 800x600 256 colours, it’s pretty slow to boot. After checking it for a couple of hours I tried the LAPC-I using the Canyon.mid from 3.11 and it works! Great!
I then tried a couple of games, Monkey Island 2 and Ultima 7 and they sound awesome, just as good if not better than I remembered!

One strange thing I noticed is that I accidentally pressed the turbo button and it makes the system run about 5-6 times slower, while I don’t really understand this but it might come in handy as a way to slow it down with really old games.

The video output from the WD card isn’t that great so I’ve now swapped it with an SIS 6326 PCI card and it looks a lot sharper and a video glitch that was visible in Ultima 7 is now gone.  I’ve since read that the DOS card of choice here is the S3 Virge, I did find one cheap on Ebay (an S3 Virge DX) but it hasn’t arrived yet, it will be good to compare with the SIS card. Which games should try that will help decide which to keep?

On the storage side I want to add a Promise 100 TX2 IDE controller and an 8GB DOM (to replace the 2 noisy HD’s) and replace the CD rom with something more reliable because it seems to be flaky reading CD-R’s.

That’s it for now. I’ll post some updates as and when I make some changes, try more things. In the meantime if anyone has some advice it will be gratefully appreciated. I’ve already learned a lot by searching through this great forum, I would never have discovered that my cache chips are fake for example. 

Jeff

Reply 1 of 19, by Scali

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
lvader wrote:

One strange thing I noticed is that I accidentally pressed the turbo button and it makes the system run about 5-6 times slower, while I don’t really understand this but it might come in handy as a way to slow it down with really old games.

That is quite normal. On most 286/386/486 systems the turbo button would drop the speed down to about 8 MHz, to slow it down to a speed in the ballpark of early AT systems.
With a 100 MHz CPU, the performance drop will indeed be huge. That is exactly the point.
It's mainly intended for running early software that doesn't handle fast PCs properly.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 2 of 19, by BSA Starfire

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Glad you are having fun, in my tests I found the S3 ViRGE faster than the SiS 6326 for DOS, in fact my original ViRGE 325 is faster than my 375DX oddly, just for fun run the benchmarks from Phil's thread here and add your machine to the Google docs spreadsheet:Phil's Ultimate VGA Benchmark Database Project one thing to bear in mind is that a LOT of ViRGE cards have a overbright display & display quality is not as good as some other cards S3 AGP Cards (and possibly others) Too Bright Diamond & Number nine cards seem the way to go for quality ViRGE however my "good" ViRGE is unbranded, so who knows?
The SiS 6326 is vastly better for any 3D accelerated stuff, however that is probably not relevant for a 486 DX4.

all the best,
Chris

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 3 of 19, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Great little machine. I envy you, as the lack of a motherboard with button-cell battery, PCI/ISA, slots for 72-pin Ram and onboard I/O.
Are the only thing missing in order for me to build a 5x86-P133 machine. (have it all, even SCSI controller and soundcard's)

Regarding the CD-Rom. Just jam a DVD-Drive into it. I have one in my Pentium-133 and it works well in MS-Dos-6.22.
Hope you have many wonderfull hour's on this early 90's machine... BTW... Can you post some hardware pics?
Otherwise. Take care on this machine. Not many left.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 6 of 19, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
lvader wrote:
Here are a couple of pics, for an old no brand AT mini tower I think it's not bad looking. Sorry for the orientation (Iphone) […]
Show full quote

Here are a couple of pics, for an old no brand AT mini tower I think it's not bad looking. Sorry for the orientation (Iphone)

jhu885.jpg

8z2mgg.jpg

Nice machine. I like it.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 7 of 19, by BSA Starfire

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Classic case too, saw a lot of these and similar back in the day. how you going with the ViRGE? Any pics of that?

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 9 of 19, by BSA Starfire

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Neat, I recently bought a Western Digital Paradise card, not arrived yet though but a few older threads here seem to think it is very fast for an ISA card in DOS, heres's mine: Bought these (retro) hardware today (bottom of page 477). Not seen any info on your VLB one tho, wouldn't be surprised if it's not pretty swift though. ViRGE DX looks nice,very compact, it's half the size of my DX, let us know how you get on with it. As I said above the SiS 6326 is not too quick in DOS but both my cards (4mb & 8mb PCI) have very good image quality, great compatability and are really good for 3D considering the cost at the time, drivers were updated till 2002 AFAIK.
Best,
Chris

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 13 of 19, by shamino

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Height of the motherboard can be changed by swapping out the standoffs underneath it, but if the problem is only with one card then the board height must be fine.
In the picture of the 3 video cards, it's hard to tell but the bracket on the Virge does look like it might be offset compared to the 6326 next to it. If you compare with a few other cards and they all agree with the alignment of the 6326 bracket, then the Virge must be wrong for some reason.
Maybe somebody swapped the bracket from another card, and this one doesn't align correctly with the position of the Virge's VGA port.

Reply 14 of 19, by pewpewpew

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
lvader wrote:

It doesn't look like I can adjust the motherboard position]

Yikes. That's quite the difference on the S3.

If you loosen the screws holding the motherboard just a little, you'll have a very small amount of play to shift the board around. However I don't think it's going to be enough this time.

Just how much is the difference? Put a ruler against the back of the shield and measure to the first gold finger on the S3 and the SIS. I'm kinda in disbelief that it can be as much as it looks in the pics.

Reply 15 of 19, by Chaniyth

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Welcome to VOGONS!

Since the board has fake cache L2 your 486dx4-100MHz will not perform very well. Eventually you'll probably want a better board so the CPU has maximum performance. I recommend getting an Asus PVI-486SP3 rev. 1.8 which has PCI, VLB, ISA and a flashable BIOS or if you want VLB/ISA only then Asus also make nice VLB/ISA only board, Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4. There's also Gigabyte that makes a nice VLB/ISA board, Gigabyte GA-486VS (non-flashable BIOS so if you need or want a BIOS update you'd need an eprom writer).

PCI performance on 486 boards of any brand is pretty lack luster so stick with VLB graphic cards. When you can, buy an S3 Trio64 VLB graphics card; very fast and very compatible. 😀

All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and when they catch you, they will kill you... but first they must catch you. 😁

Reply 17 of 19, by glutamin

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Please comment here as you install the Disk on Module. I bought a 128MB DOM (by mistake 😀 ). Later I will buy a bigger one, but I dont know which is the biggest to buy.

Reply 18 of 19, by lvader

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

It didn't work out well, the DOM didn't work. It didn't work on any PC I tried it on so I believe it was faulty. So I returned it. I found an Innodisk 4GB DOM on Ebay only to find it didn't come with the power cables. 🙁 In the end I opted for an IDE CF adapter with a 2GB Sandisk CF card I already had. That worked well once I converted to fixed disk type.