VOGONS

Search

Common searches

New Old Stock Build Pentium III @ 800 MHz w/ ISA Slots

Topic actions

First post, by jakethompson1

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I once had a bunch of old systems (ranging from a PS/2 model 30-286, Compaq Deskpro 386/20e and 386/25, plus various 486 systems) but unfortunately got rid of them about 10 years ago... One of the items I kept was a Sound Blaster card, and I recently pulled out some old games with distinctive MIDI music (SimCity 2000, Wacky Wheels, etc.) and was getting nostalgic for the "real" FM synthesis based sound. DOSBox does a good approximation, but is a bit glitchy.

So then I built a Pentium III system w/ ISA slots from a mix of new, refurbished, new-old-stock and used parts. I was going for new wherever possible (unlike those builds aiming for appropriate for the time) and thought the list and things I ran into might be useful.

Specifications:
- Thermaltake V3 case, new, from MicroCenter
- StarTech 250W ATX Power Supply, new, from Newegg
- Intel SE440BX-2 motherboard, new in box, from eBay
- CR2032 battery, new, from MicroCenter
- Intel Pentium III 800 MHz Slot 1 CPU, new in box, from eBay
- 256MB PC100 memory, double sided, 8 chips per side, new, from Amazon
- ATI Radeon 9000 PCI graphics card, new, from Newegg
- Gigabit Ethernet PCI card (Realtek 8169), new, from MicroCenter
- Creative Sound Blaster 16 PnP CT-2950 ISA sound card, used, on hand
- Bytecc internal floppy drive, new, from MicroCenter
- StarTech 18" floppy cable, new, from Newegg
- 80GB IDE hard drive, refurbished, from MicroCenter
- IDE ribbon cable, new, from Newegg
- IDE DVD+-RW drive, refurbished, from MicroCenter
- PS/2 keyboard, new, from Unicomp
- PS/2 mouse, new, from Newegg
- ViewSonic 1280x1024 LCD monitor, used, on hand
- Windows 98 Second Edition, used, on hand

Issues:
- I'm not sure if the power supply needed to have the -5V supply; I got it just in case since I was using an ISA card. I do know that the division between 5V and 12V is also done much differently in new versions of the ATX standard.
- I got the Thermaltake V3 case because the front USB and audio ports, useless for this system since the motherboard does not have these headers, were kept in a 3.5" drive bay and were detachable. However, the holes for these ports are molded into the front cover. I ended up sawing away this part of the front cover, though without the steadiest hand, it didn't go as neatly as I hoped. You can see the result in the pictures. The drive bay cover below the FDD looks a bit weird since it has fingerprints and is reflecting another screen, but it looked better in person.
- Since old motherboards were designed for top-mounted power supplies, the power connector is on the opposite end of the motherboard from the power supply, and the main power connector must stretch across the whole board to fit. The cabling on the supply I chose was barely long enough when bottom mounted.
- I first tried memory labeled as "PC100 low density" from Newegg. It turned out to be single sided with 4 DRAM chips, and was detected as half capacity by the board, so I switched to the Amazon memory instead.
- I suppose I should have looked harder for an AGP graphics card, but I wanted new and this board used an early revision of AGP that doesn't appear to have any new cards available for it.
- I used Catalyst 6.2 drivers from ATI's website. The setup.exe programs refused to run. I was able to install the drivers directly, but had to use the "show all drivers" option or similar as the .INF file with them must not have the PCI ID of this card inside.
- Ribbon cables have become a speciality item, not stocked at MicroCenter and when ordered online ship slower.
- The board came with 1 IDE cable and 1 floppy cable, but the floppy cable was too short.
- BIOS shows hard drive as 65535 MB, but it works fine otherwise.
- FDISK and FORMAT from Windows 98 SE CD can't handle drives > 64 GB. I know there are third party replacements, but I just used a Linux live CD to partition and format the drive, then the DOS SYS C: command. I believe this board could have gone up to 128 GB or so.
- The SB16 drivers built in to Windows 98 showed an "Unsupported Device" in Device Manager, replacing them with the ones from Creative.com (hard, but possible to find) fixed this.

a.jpg
Filename
a.jpg
File size
208.72 KiB
Views
1559 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
b.jpg
Filename
b.jpg
File size
268.85 KiB
Views
1559 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
c.jpg
Filename
c.jpg
File size
235.48 KiB
Views
1559 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 1 of 13, by PhilsComputerLab

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Very nice!

The -5V is only needed for a a few sound cards. And some boards complain via POST that the -5V reading is off. Otherwise you have nothing to worry about 😁

Regarding FDISK and FORMAT. They can handle 128 MB drives, but cannot display the numbers correctly. But rest assured, if you FDISK and FORMAT a 120 MB drive, you will get the full capacity in Windows. Your workaround is a good way of solving this 😀

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 2 of 13, by PCBONEZ

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

More correctly -5v is only needed when you have a chip on the ISA bus that needs it. Said chip may be in an add-in ISA card or mounted directly on the board.
Chips that need -5v are usually associated with sound cards but they can be onboard too.
Such chips may also exist on older tech cards/chips such as ISA modems, especially voice modems.
(I have come across boards where the onboard sound did not work without -5v.)

That board uses an Analog Devices AD1819A and a Yamaha YMF740.
I checked their docs. Neither should need -5v. You should be fine on that board. No -5v required.

If you go here and download this: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/177 … BX2-Motherboard
Inside the package file "72163201.pdf" is the TPS (basically a very detailed manual) and file "72585615.pdf" is the update to it.
BIOS updates and old drivers can be found here: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/5052 … Board-SE440BX-2

Not all SE440BX-2 support the 800MHz P-III. It is board revision -and- BIOS revision dependent. So you should see this too.

SE440BX-2_.jpg
Filename
SE440BX-2_.jpg
File size
47.97 KiB
Views
1535 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2015-12-05, 06:47. Edited 2 times in total.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 3 of 13, by boxpressed

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Nice build. Your post made me realize that a build I put together this year had a lot of new old stock components. Same motherboard as yours, too.

Intel SE440BX-2 (new in retail box)
Intel Pentium III Coppermine 700MHz (new in retail box)
Antec SLK1650 ATX mini-tower case (new in retail box)
Corsair CX430 power supply (new in retail box, not retro)
WD 160GB HDD (new)
LG DVD-RW (new)
Mitsumi FDD with flash reader (new)

Memory, video, sound, and cables are used, although now I kind of like the idea of an all new old stock build. I could use a new Live! or Montego II that I just unsealed. Would need to keep my "pre-owned" CT2760 and V3 3000, though. 😀

Reply 4 of 13, by JayCeeBee64

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Retired
Rank
Retired

Not bad, not bad at all. You did what you could with what's presently available.

As Phil said, don't worry much about -5V, only a few ISA cards need it. Here is an old thread listing them (may not be complete though):

ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

The memory issue is well known. Some Slot 1 motherboards can't handle single sided memory well and list only half of what's actually installed. The only real solution is to get double sided memory sticks.

No one that I know makes new AGP video cards for motherboards this old, so look for used/refurbished AGP cards on eBay, Amibay and a few other online places.

Ooohh, the pain......

Reply 6 of 13, by PCBONEZ

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The board is AGP 1.0 spec. - Only takes 3.3v AGP cards. - In other words AGP 1x or 2x.
I don't think any GeForce AGP cards were less than 4x.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 7 of 13, by matze79

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

i run GeForce Cards in 1x Slots with no Problems. There is no need do stick with a PCI Card.

Even a GeForce 6200 runs in 1x Slot.

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 9 of 13, by TELVM

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
jakethompson1 wrote:

- StarTech 250W ATX Power Supply, new, from Newegg

Probably asking for too much but there is any chance of you removing the PSU cover (after unplugging from wall and leaving it at rest for half an hour) and taking pics of the Startech ATX 250W guts like borgie83 most kindly did on his Startech AT 230W?

Let the air flow!

Reply 10 of 13, by Tetrium

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
matze79 wrote:

i run GeForce Cards in 1x Slots with no Problems. There is no need do stick with a PCI Card.

Even a GeForce 6200 runs in 1x Slot.

What kind of Geforce cards? The MX ones tend to use a lot less power then the more highend ones and in the very beginning when AGP was new, manufacturers made AGP ports that often had trouble providing enough juice to (later) high end graphics cards.

Just to note: This is basically a completely other issue then the AGP 1.0 vs AGP 2.0 issue of compatibility.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 11 of 13, by alexanrs

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
PCBONEZ wrote:

The board is AGP 1.0 spec. - Only takes 3.3v AGP cards. - In other words AGP 1x or 2x.
I don't think any GeForce AGP cards were less than 4x.

GeForce cards up to the FX family are universal (compatible with both 3.3V and 1.5V AGP variants). GeForce 6+ are designed for 1.5V signaling only.

Reply 12 of 13, by PCBONEZ

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
alexanrs wrote:
PCBONEZ wrote:

The board is AGP 1.0 spec. - Only takes 3.3v AGP cards. - In other words AGP 1x or 2x.
I don't think any GeForce AGP cards were less than 4x.

GeForce cards up to the FX family are universal (compatible with both 3.3V and 1.5V AGP variants). GeForce 6+ are designed for 1.5V signaling only.

That's what I get for checking the GeForce specs at wikipedia at 3AM.

I would have said something like "MOST GeForce cards up to the FX family ........." though because lots of companies built lots of GeForce cards and I haven't seen every version.

I recall from back in the day (when AGP 4x and 1.5v were new) that some third party video card manufactures screwed up the keying on their cards and built AGP 2x 3.3v only cards with the 1.5v keys in place. Basically they were using their older 2x chips on newer 4x PCBs.
(Probably burning up their stock of 2x chips after they upgraded the PCBs to 4x.)
Sometimes they resulted in fried mobo chipsets.
I have not seen anyone run into that problem for YEARS though, so hopefully those screwy cards have all been fried or binned by now.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 13 of 13, by PCBONEZ

Posted on 
User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It seems i got lost in the technical details and I forgot to tell the OP - NICE BUILD.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Go to top of page Go to top of page
Back to General Old Hardware
Close window
Close window