With a 486, you will have the ability to utilize a bit more modern components. Like 72pin SIMMs, PS/2 mouse support, coin batteries, on board I/O and HDD/FDD controllers, PCI or VLB video cards, etc., as long as you are able to find the right board. And their BIOS would be happier with greater than 540MB HDDs and PnP cards.

This is when compared to an 386. I personally prefer Pentium MMX as my DOS machine, but this is a personal choice, since I have no intension of playing speed sensitive very old DOS games. And I should also admit that I have no 486 rigs, but two 386s in working condition (jut for nostalgia).

That MMX is the way to go!

Turn off both caches and you got a 386, turn of L1 cache, but leave motherboard cache on and you got a 486DX2 😀

The idea is the basis of this video I made: Building a 4 in 1 Retro Gaming PC

*moved to Marvin*

I think that owning a 386 will be a marvellous experience when you first get it going - all the memories come flooding back. But then, when things seem a bit too slow you'll eventually want to upgrade. On that basis I'd say go with the 486/33 you mentioned. You should find a board which supports DX2 chips, then you can swap in something faster later on as required.

Qbix wrote:

*moved to Marvin*

Thanks, and sorry. I forgot to check the proper sub-forum.

philscomputerlab wrote:

That MMX is the way to go!

Turn off both caches and you got a 386, turn of L1 cache, but leave motherboard cache on and you got a 486DX2 😀

The idea is the basis of this video I made: Building a 4 in 1 Retro Gaming PC

Phil, I've seen your stuff about the 4in1 project and it is inspiring. I do agree that using that P200MMX probably is the most convenient way of doing DOS retro stuff. No argument there. But... somehow it just doesn't feel the same. If you catch my meaning? If full convenience was the way for me I'd use DosBOX and emulation all the way. Much easier, less hassle.

Oh, I forgot that I do have one slim-case P90 also in the garage. That one my missus missed. But still... it would seem I have this certain itch for a proper Socket 5 rig right now. Maybe I'll just finish my P200MMX project and then start hunting parts for a 486. I already know my wife will love all those hardware stuff lying around. But she can blame herself: I wouldn't even consider buying more retro "garbage" if I still had that 386 to toy with. 😁

No contest really... a pure thoroughbread, unadulterated... 386!

Even if you get a 200MMX for convenience sake, nostalgia will always conquer in the end.

I suggest you get something you had back in the days. A 486 DX2/66 with a SoundBlaster and Gravis Ultrasound along with a more modern storage solution and you're good to go. For 2D adventure I'm guessing you're interested in the later games as well, like Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle. A 386 won't cut it there.

vetz wrote:

Even if you get a 200MMX for convenience sake, nostalgia will always conquer in the end.

I suggest you get something you had back in the days. A 486 DX2/66 with a SoundBlaster and Gravis Ultrasound along with a more modern storage solution and you're good to go. For 2D adventure I'm guessing you're interested in the later games as well, like Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle. A 386 won't cut it there.

Nostalgia is a funny thing, indeed. I know the reasonable thing to do (well, semi-reasonable at least) would be to use the stuff I already have and not spend a dime more. But will I be completely happy with the result? In the long run... I don't think so. I love the tinkering and configuring part of this retro hobby so much that in the end the actual gaming is probably going to play just the second violin.

I have a dozen sound cards (SB's, Rolands, GUSes) so actually it's not going to be a problem to eventually build all three rigs (386, 486, P200) if necessary. But remembering what my ol' DX2/66 was capable of I think I could manage with less power and probably just go for a compromise between 386 and 486. 486 DX-33 (or similar) with a turbo button possibility should do the trick.

I struggled with the same question myself a few years back. Ultimately there's no replacement for playing on the real thing - the look, the feel, the sounds of an old machine (especially noisy old hard drives - I LOVE that noise for some reason - it soothes me) help with the immersion and the "time machine" effect. Sure you could play your old games on a downclocked pentium 1 with cache disabled, but it just won't be the same.
I also love going troughs the whole research / buy / build phase. Assembling and setting up an old computer is a different experience each time and makes me feel like I'm 10 all over again 😀

Yeah, a 486 DX-33 is a good choice then, using the turbo button should take you down into 386 territory (which a DX2-66 won't do).

vetz wrote:

Yeah, a 486 DX-33 is a good choice then, using the turbo button should take you down into 386 territory (which a DX2-66 won't do).

That greatly depends on what mainboard you're using. I've seen board that just introduce wait states when turbo is pressed, and others that actually reduce clock frequency (for example from 133mhz->33x4 to just 33MHz) AND disable cache to bring the machine down to 386 levels or even lower.

Ariakos, if you are stuck between a 386/486, how about 386/486 hybrid machine? A Cyrix/Ti 486DLC or 486SXL CPU plugs right into the PGA-132 of a 386 motherboard and performs in the 486SX-25 to 486DX-33 regime. You still have that vintage 386 feel due to the motherboard, but with a little extra juice. These are my favourite 386's to fool around with.

feipoa wrote:

Ariakos, if you are stuck between a 386/486, how about 386/486 hybrid machine? A Cyrix/Ti 486DLC or 486SXL CPU plugs right into the PGA-132 of a 386 motherboard and performs in the 486SX-25 to 486DX-33 regime. You still have that vintage 386 feel due to the motherboard, but with a little extra juice. These are my favourite 386's to fool around with.

Yes, to compromise I would agree with this, it would be the the best all round '386' option... technically using the 386 core, 486 instruction set and 132 PGA socket they are still 386's, with cache! 😁

You will most likely end up building both anyway - at least that's what I did. The 386 has a lot of good memories for me as that was the first time I had access to a machine that wasn't hopelessly outdated at the time. The library of DOS games really exploded when the 386 came out. I recently took my games library and divided up which ones play better on which CPUs and for me a 386 represents a massive improvement over 286 and earlier. The 486 introduces the possibility for the early 3D FPS games - which are very important to me - but by sheer volume the 386 wins. I suspect most of those games came out when the 486 was out but fairly high-end so many games targeted the 386 to broaden the market a bit.

To me the 386 era was when games dropped CGA support, stopped using PC squeaker sound in preference for Adlib/SB and started using additional RAM. All of those things made the range and quality of games improve by leaps and bounds over previous gens. Amiga ports actually started getting accurate and the shareware market just exploded. I had a DX 40 though so apart from Doom etc I never really struggled with performance on my 386 - if the game was 2D then the 386 was usually perfectly fine.

The 486 era motherboards are easier to use though - better large HD support, PCI or VLB and integrated IO makes building a system around those systems much easier today.

Look for cheap OEM desktops: no idea whether there any in FI but SE / DE / UK should have some cheap. 😀

286 already supported MPC-2 BTW: VGA, sound & CD-ROM. Even some 8086s did.

Something I have to share with you: my very own Christmas came early this year, thanks to... myself?!

I visited my parents today and out of curiosity went to the attic to browse my old stuff I left there as a student. I remembered I had my old Amiga 500 and Commodore 64 there along with some joysticks. I wasn't wrong. But there was more. So. Much. More. It would seem that I was very insightful guy when I was 20 years old. I remember having a lot of old hardware that was not so "hot" in early 2000 but I didn't remember I saved almost all of them. Imagine that. Now, almost 15 years later it was just like Christmas for me opening old cardboard boxes and finding all that stuff I had preserved. And I tell you: it was a gold mine.

But hey enough of my banter. You want pictures, right? 😉

Some random stuff:

CAF 386 SX-20MHz:

Goldstar 286-10MHz:

So my findings pretty much cover my need for a 386 machine. And yes: that CAF was the unit I earlier blamed my wife for discarding it. Luckily I didn't yet confront and accuse her for doing something like that. I saved myself from a needless argument... 🙄

A quick question to those who may know: which one of those 486 boards would be better base for a 486 build? UMC with VLB slots or the SIS one with PCI slots? Provided they both still work, of course. I need to find proper I/O card for either one nevertheless: those boards have only one single DIN keyboard port. And I may need to get a VLB graphic card, too.

The MSI MS-4144 is a nice board if you want to go with a PCI-based 486. I also have this board. The MS-4144 takes up to 1024K of L2 cache and can be modified to work with a PS/2 mouse, if you are into that kind of thing. I modified mine. I see that your board has an AMI BIOS, but there is also an AWARD BIOS for this board.

What machine did you decide to use for the 386? What are the specs?

feipoa wrote:

What machine did you decide to use for the 386? What are the specs?

That CAF 386 SX-20 seems to be an OEM type of machine with integrated VGA. It also has parallel and serial ports on board, so no need for extra I/O cards. I'm not sure about the amount of RAM but I have extra RAM chips to fill those two empty slots if necessary. It has only two ISA slots so it's a very slim machine. In that sense it's ideal for a quick configuration: just throw in HDD (or a Compact Flash card with adapter) and one or two ISA sound cards, install DOS through disks and go.

I think I'll put more thought in the 486 build as soon as I get more materials for it. For now my hands will be full with that sweet little 386... 😁