VOGONS


PSU - bust the myth

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Reply 260 of 382, by Tetrium

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PARUS wrote:
Old PSUs about 120-200W, AT and early ATX, usually have 30A or even 40A by +5V line and only one +12V line with 11-15A. Modern P […]
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Old PSUs about 120-200W, AT and early ATX, usually have 30A or even 40A by +5V line and only one +12V line with 11-15A. Modern PSUs about 650-700W usually have one +5V line with 10-20A and one 12V line up to 60A or two 12V lines both are about 30A.

When I was choosing a new PSU for my retro system I looked up for powerful +5V line. FSP 800-80-GLN is one of them:
+5 30A (!) - very important
+12 first 20A
+12 second 20A - summary 40A is enough
+3,3 30A

My load:
Core2 up to 3GHz
i865 board with 24pin+4pin
AGP card 256mb with MOLEX
PCI Voodoo4
PCI X-Fi
PCI Live! or AU8830
ISA EWS64XL
ISA AV310
ISA AWE64
ISA GUS Ace
Roland SCB-55
NEC 385XR
2xDVD IDE
Floppy
2x250GB SATA drives

I looked up this FSP, but for some reason I find its name (which make it seem like a 800W PSU) a bit an overstatement for a 800W unit. But it's interesting it has 30A on the 5v line. Like any more modern unit, it has mostly SATA connectors, but a couple adapters will take care of that.

Is this PSU only available on Russias sites or something?

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Reply 261 of 382, by PARUS

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I don't know about other countries, didn't look 😀 SATA connectors are very good for me because I use i865 chipset and SATA drives. 30A current on +5V is excellent for ISA and 'molex-power' devices. It's much heavy PSU if it does matter.

Reply 262 of 382, by gdjacobs

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Weight doesn't always matter. Some dodgy PSU vendors ballast them down with lead (or concrete) to make them seem more substantial. I doubt FSP will do that, though.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 263 of 382, by Unknown_K

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Ozzuneoj wrote:
For older, less power hungry systems that aren't likely to need 30A on the +5v, I like to use these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEA […]
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For older, less power hungry systems that aren't likely to need 30A on the +5v, I like to use these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEASONIC-350W-ATX12V- … poAAOSwal5YG0no

Active PFC, 80 Plus (sometimes Bronze)
+5v = 20A
+12v = 17A x2

I just purchased one of those 350W supplies for my Netflix box. The PS works but its making a vibrating noise from the fan after an hour or so. Outervision power supply calculator said I only need 260W/310Recommended and the voltages and amps checked out.

Some of the old cheaper cases did come with some dodgy looking PS units, but I keep them just in case and install something better depending on the loads. Can't be any worse then the cheap PS sold on compgeeks.com before they went out of business.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 264 of 382, by bestemor

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Anyone know of these presumably newly made Konig PSU's ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262863702857

The specs seem promising for the pre-Pentium4 era motherboards, but who knows what they really are like under the hood...

- Maximum Load: +3.3V 30A +5V 40A +12V 20A -12V 0.5A +5VSB 2.0A […]
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- Maximum Load:
+3.3V 30A
+5V 40A
+12V 20A
-12V 0.5A
+5VSB 2.0A

Who might be the OEM manufacturer, I wonder ?

Has anyone actually tried/used these models from Konig ?
Any horror stories ? My google-fu is not up to par it seems, not much is written about them...

Reply 266 of 382, by kenrouholo

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New PSU with "550 watts", only 2 SATA, ridiculously low 12v current, ridiculously high 3.3v and 5v, and only passive PFC?

I can guarantee you absolutely 100% that's a piece of garbage.

And while older PCs will prefer 3.3v and 5v over 12v, a modern PC PSU built like that ALWAYS signifies low quality. No exceptions. It's possible to build a quality supply with mostly 5v and 3.3v, but there are no PCs out there for which that would make a useful product (no older PC needs a 550w supply and any newer PC needing 550w needs it mostly in the +12v rail). And so nobody makes a quality supply like that anymore. It's all garbage. (Edit to note: PSUs that have even more total power, have tons of 12v, and also have lots of 5v and 3.3v current are fine if they are from a decent brand. But if it's a newer supply, has the 5v and 3.3v current, but lacks a big 12v rail, it's crap. The large FSP supply mentioned a few posts above should be fine as FSP is a pretty good brand and that supply has plenty of 12v current available too. Though if you use such a large PSU in an old rig that doesn't need it, you may encounter cross-loading issues stemming from not enough load on the 12v rail.)

I wouldn't pay even £20 for a supply like that (Edit to clarify: well I'm in the US so it'd be $ for me... but I honestly think a PSU like that is only worth $20-30 new at retail; I'm not trolling with that number. And I still wouldn't recommend ANYONE buy a supply like that at $20). I literally wouldn't use it even if somebody gave it to me for free.

It does have the UL logo which is a good sign, but I'd say it's likely counterfeit. And even then, UL certification only indicates a possible decent product; it's not a definite.

I could buy some really good PSUs at that pricepoint. But for retro stuff save yourself some cash and by a used Enermax Noisetaker (the ATX12v 1.3 series) or a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 350w, 425w or 510w. (No need for 510w, but hey it'll be a quality supply and you can get them pretty cheap sometimes used.)

By the way, when looking at PSUs, do not just look at the currents for each rail. ATX power supplies also have a power rating for the 3.3v and 5v rails combined... It can be as low as ~80 watts, or it can be over 200 watts. Very important spec and I have yet to see anyone else mention it. A power supply can offer lots of current on 3.3v or 5v, but not (always) on both at the same time because of this rating that everyone seems to ignore. Not good! Lots of recent FSP (Fortron/Sparkle) models have ~130w which will be fine for many fairly standard retro rigs but some of the smaller ones and some other brands have 80w which should be avoided in most cases.

Retro hardware can be expensive at times, and power supplies are the one component that tend to take other stuff out with them if they fail. They are also the one component that is relatively likely to start a fire if it fails, particularly low quality units. Brands like Allied/Deer were known for literally starting fires. I owned an Allied PSU once... it was "AMD certified" but when I found out that such certification was useless and the supply was downright dangerous, I changed my ways. Probably a very similar PSU to what this is, too.

Edit: By the way, FSP is actually one of the better manufacturers. I'd probably take Enhance, Enermax, Flextronics, Seasonic or Super Flower over FSP, but I'd still be happy with an FSP over just about anything else. (Edit to note: I said PC Power & Cooling above which is now owned by OCZ, and is a still decent product, the ones I mentioned above are pre-OCZ when the brand was considered by many to be the absolute best.)

Last edited by kenrouholo on 2017-03-02, 20:59. Edited 4 times in total.

Yes, I always ramble this much.

Reply 267 of 382, by 386SX

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Man I had some of those no brand 500/600W with impossible 3,3v/5v wattage that were almost lighter than the box they came with. Lol. Few components, ridicolous heatsinks and thin wires, even the black wall eletric plug could not stay well inserted into it. I'll never buy one again.
Lately I've seen failing another in the mini itx form one that lasted I don't know... 48 hours with a 15W of a mini pc wattage?

Reply 268 of 382, by bestemor

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Well, looking at the label, it IS somewhat worrying that they didn't bother specifying the combined wattages....
Usually you get a value for 3.3+5volts separate from 12volt etc etc, but here we have NO info whatsoever, only the cryptic model name... 🤣

http://pictures.content4us.com/products_high_ … SUP450W_S_3.JPG
Granted, this is the 450w model, but same difference...

http://www.konigelectronic.com/en_us/about-us

That´s our focus: Enhance your world by offering you high quality and fresh technology against a very competitive price setting.

Not that small apparantly ?:
http://www.konigelectronic.com/en_us/offices

The computer line of products:
http://www.konigelectronic.com/en_us/computer

Reply 270 of 382, by Tetrium

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386SX wrote:

Man I had some of those no brand 500/600W with impossible 3,3v/5v wattage that were almost lighter than the box they came with. Lol. Few components, ridicolous heatsinks and thin wires, even the black wall eletric plug could not stay well inserted into it. I'll never buy one again.
Lately I've seen failing another in the mini itx form one that lasted I don't know... 48 hours with a 15W of a mini pc wattage?

Once I was using a brand new Premier 300W (yeah right 🤣!) for my Celly 400 and it had all kinds of problems.
These problems went away after having swapped the PSU with the old 235W PSU that I originally gotten with my P2 🤣

I really wouldn't want to risk this hardware with these crappy PSUs these days.

I've always held König in lower regard compared to...well...most of the other stuff. But there are certainly different grades of crappyness (but still it's a bad reason to not use something like an older FSP instead).

I read about your PSU issues in another thread I think? But at least you learned from your mistakes and for me your (mostly 386 😜) rigs were always a pleasure to read for me 😁

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 273 of 382, by bestemor

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Finally found something of assumed quality, which is actually purchaseable, at 30A (180w), brand new that is.... BUT... perhaps a slight overkill for a meagre slot1 Pentium II or even a socket370, I think (?)
And totally killing my wallet in the process...

http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/ax1200i-digital- … lly-modular-psu

Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX Power Supply DC Output: +3.3V / +5V / +12V /-12V / +5Vsb Max Load: 30A / 30A / 100.4A/ 0.8A /3 […]
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Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX Power Supply
DC Output: +3.3V / +5V / +12V /-12V / +5Vsb
Max Load: 30A / 30A / 100.4A/ 0.8A /3.5A
Max comb.: 180W/1204.8W / 9.6W / 17.5W
Total Power: 1204.8W

Reply 274 of 382, by kenrouholo

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Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. Very nice PSUs made by Flextronics (the AX non-I series is made by Seasonic and the I series is made by Flextronics, both high quality).

Or at least be prepared to load that power supply down with several good old spinny hard drives, good excuse to get some 15KRPM Fujitsu SCSI drives too, heh.

Can you be more specific about your hardware? You may be looking for more than you need. You are not likely to need 30A 5v, though you also shouldn't settle for some crap 16A either.

In my opinion, look for a used Enermax EG375P-VE on Ebay. I actually bought the 285 one for myself for a Pentium 1 (with a Banshee, no V2SLI or anything).

Yes, I always ramble this much.

Reply 275 of 382, by Skyscraper

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kenrouholo wrote:
Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. V […]
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Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. Very nice PSUs made by Flextronics (the AX non-I series is made by Seasonic and the I series is made by Flextronics, both high quality).

Or at least be prepared to load that power supply down with several good old spinny hard drives, good excuse to get some 15KRPM Fujitsu SCSI drives too, heh.

Can you be more specific about your hardware? You may be looking for more than you need. You are not likely to need 30A 5v, though you also shouldn't settle for some crap 16A either.

In my opinion, look for a used Enermax EG375P-VE on Ebay. I actually bought the 285 one for myself for a Pentium 1 (with a Banshee, no V2SLI or anything).

I used the first generation Corsair AX1200 (also made by Flextronics but the rest of the first series were made by Seasonic) as a bench PSU and I used it with both Super Socket 7 and Slot-1 motherboards without any issues.

The new AXi series could be different though.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 276 of 382, by kenrouholo

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Skyscraper wrote:
kenrouholo wrote:
Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. V […]
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Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. Very nice PSUs made by Flextronics (the AX non-I series is made by Seasonic and the I series is made by Flextronics, both high quality).

Or at least be prepared to load that power supply down with several good old spinny hard drives, good excuse to get some 15KRPM Fujitsu SCSI drives too, heh.

Can you be more specific about your hardware? You may be looking for more than you need. You are not likely to need 30A 5v, though you also shouldn't settle for some crap 16A either.

In my opinion, look for a used Enermax EG375P-VE on Ebay. I actually bought the 285 one for myself for a Pentium 1 (with a Banshee, no V2SLI or anything).

I used the first generation Corsair AX1200 (also made by Flextronics but the rest of the first series were made by Seasonic) as a bench PSU and I used it with both Super Socket 7 and Slot-1 motherboards without any issues.

The new AXi series could be different though.

If yours works then the new one probably will as well. Your experience is closer to what he is asking about.

Just be prepared to throw some extra hard drives in the rig if it doesn't turn on or if it experiences out-of-spec voltages.

Yes, I always ramble this much.

Reply 277 of 382, by gdjacobs

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kenrouholo wrote:
Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. V […]
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Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. Very nice PSUs made by Flextronics (the AX non-I series is made by Seasonic and the I series is made by Flextronics, both high quality).

Or at least be prepared to load that power supply down with several good old spinny hard drives, good excuse to get some 15KRPM Fujitsu SCSI drives too, heh.

Can you be more specific about your hardware? You may be looking for more than you need. You are not likely to need 30A 5v, though you also shouldn't settle for some crap 16A either.

In my opinion, look for a used Enermax EG375P-VE on Ebay. I actually bought the 285 one for myself for a Pentium 1 (with a Banshee, no V2SLI or anything).

Newer 12v heavy CPUs with minor rails bucked down from that are actually extremely good in cross load conditions. Loading the minor rails actually does load the 12v supply.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 278 of 382, by kenrouholo

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gdjacobs wrote:
kenrouholo wrote:
Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. V […]
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Probably won't work. PSUs have a minimum load, especially on the 12v rail for newer ones. I have an AX760i in my main machine. Very nice PSUs made by Flextronics (the AX non-I series is made by Seasonic and the I series is made by Flextronics, both high quality).

Or at least be prepared to load that power supply down with several good old spinny hard drives, good excuse to get some 15KRPM Fujitsu SCSI drives too, heh.

Can you be more specific about your hardware? You may be looking for more than you need. You are not likely to need 30A 5v, though you also shouldn't settle for some crap 16A either.

In my opinion, look for a used Enermax EG375P-VE on Ebay. I actually bought the 285 one for myself for a Pentium 1 (with a Banshee, no V2SLI or anything).

Newer 12v heavy CPUs with minor rails bucked down from that are actually extremely good in cross load conditions. Loading the minor rails actually does load the 12v supply.

Ah, yeah, good point.

Yes, I always ramble this much.

Reply 279 of 382, by bestemor

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Frankly I do not know how many Amps I really need.
Was under the impression that perhaps 30A and 150w would be a minimum....(?)

Project1:
- Slot1 Pentium (400mhz normal, or 1400mhz slotket)
- 2 hdd (ide or sata w/adapter etc)
- 1 or 2 optical drives
- 2 floppy drives /or combo 3.5+5.25
- vga card, pci or agp (max GF 4600)
- 2 ISA soundcards, perhaps 1 pci
- some other PCI utility card(s)
- a couple of ram sticks

Project2:
- socket478 Asus mobo
- s479 processor on an adapter
- 2-3 harddrives
- 2 optical drives
- floppy, as above
- nvidia vga, some 6800GS-7900GTX agp
- 2-4 ram modules

+ some fans here and there...

The previous 'Pentium4' PSU(which currently needs an impossible to find model specific replacement ATX cable),
had 30A/3.3v & 45A/5v(275w combined), + 2 lines of 12v@20A(400w comb.), total max 500w.

But I don't think I'm willing to pay 300-400(!) euro a piece for a modern high power PSU, if that is what it takes to fill the gap.

Have noted the suggestions on finding used older PSU's. Maybe I'll delve some more into that.
But I am bit weary with these things, unless they were bought by myself...