VOGONS


First post, by Rodoko

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You guys might remember this machine from my very very first post @ Vogons

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To refresh your memory if you don't remember this was a P200 MMX based machine with 32 MBs of RAM
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Well, the last Sunday I traded it for... a 486 machine!! And this makes me happy because I always wanted to have a 486 but the computer parts shop didn't have one actually, but the machine came to me thanks to a friend on a Spanish Facebook based community about Retro machines

To make a long story short, in the second day of December 2014 I went to the computer parts shop that is located on a gallery and the people of the store offered me an IBM Aptiva 486 with a problem on the hard drive (headcrash) and I wanted to buy it but sadly I had a 40 GB drive lying around so, to actually use that 40 GB drive I needed something more newer to use it (Because everyone here in this amazing forum knows about drive capacity limits on early systems like the 486 and olders :3 ) so I didn't have any choice and bought a PIII machine which was the HP Vectra that I still have as of today

Two years later (Today) I got a message from a friend that decided to do computer trading so I asked him if he had a 486 and sure, he had two of the same machine so, I told him to trade my P200 to one of them and I got it with me and then the troubles started

Before I tell the troubles that I had, let me introduce the machine I got

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This is an Epson Action PC 3000, which originally had a SX33 according to my friend that was the original owner when he found it at a deposit of stuff from a library but then he upgraded to the DX4 @100 MHz which is the processor that has actually installed

And before giving to me he added a SB16 and a Trident ISA card that I ended taking out because the integrated video is actually Local Bus video (Powered by a Cirrus CLG5426 video chip) and I guess that Local Bus is much faster than ISA and the original owner (a.k.a. my friend) left me the machine with 16 MB of RAM

Well, the troubles started with the addition of a CD Drive and hard drive problems, well, since this is a compact system it would be easy to add but unfortuately the motherboard designers at Epson decided to actually make the installation a lot harder because the IDE cable goes on the left and then goes thru the riser card and then to the hard drive itself, but when I decide to add a CD drive to it, the IDE cable needs to go like this:

The second IDE connector to the hard drive and the first one to the CD drive

And the problem is this, since the second connector is connected to the HDD and the first one to the CD drive it will make a tight fit but the cable will be suffer from stretching that will be making a loose connection between the motherboard itself and the drives so, this machine has no CD drive installed

Although it did came with a 5"25 drive I ended taking it out since I don't have a cable to connect it (I used to have one but the cable wasn't long enough to make the 3"1/2 drive A: and the 5"25 drive B: so as of now has only the 3"1/2 drive installed)

Another problem that I had was, when I recieved the machine had a problem with the hard drive itself and that was wrong jumper configuration, is basically a 540 MB Quantum Fireball 540AT which came from an IBM guessing from an early Aptiva, so I did set the jumpers and write the parameters listed on the label

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But when I got it working, I formatted it, installed MS-DOS 6.22 and then another trouble came to it and that was in the drive's motor logic that made it spun even faster than normal and causing it to shut itself down but the system was actually installed so it wasn't that big of a problem

So I left it outside of the machine for two days and then I took it and I hit it with care with the handle from a screwdriver on the area where the motor spindle is located and then I plugged it in on a ATX PSU and it worked like a charm!!

I put it back on the machine and no more issues and since the machine itself has no CD drive to install Windows I needed to use a spare computer that I have lying around and the result was this:

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The CD drive used is the one that came from the machine when I recieved it but in this case was used to transfer my DOS games and install Windows 3.11 to the drive and then putting back on the machine to continue with the rest of the restoration

Then using some floppy disks and the help of my K6 based system running 98SE with the USB mass storage drivers, my primary laptop and the help of Google and Vogons Wiki I was able to find the proper drivers for the SB16, the video card and also the mouse driver (the last one for both DOS and Windows) that was added later

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Windows For Workgroups 3.11 Spanish version
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(To be continued on 2nd post :3 )

Last edited by Rodoko on 2016-03-13, 19:00. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 1 of 12, by Rodoko

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(Continuation from the first post)

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Cirrus Logic video driver initialization
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Standard Windows desktop with the classic grey background
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Typical Phoenix BIOS screen showing all the specs if you guys wanted to see it
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After having everything working is staying like this on Windows :3
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The insides of the beast (Not a good picture but well)
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Reply 2 of 12, by Skyscraper

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Nice!

This seems like a perfect little 486.

I agree that the onboard Cirrus Logic VESA video is much better than any ISA video card you could find.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 3 of 12, by Rodoko

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I forgot to mention that before having the machine, took me some days to track the manual of the thing and thanks to God the US site of Epson had it and now have the PDF on my tablet ready to read in case if I need it for something or a problem on the machine :3 (Also I needed it to know the key combo to set the speed to 8 MHz for some games like Wolfenstein, Indy 500, LHX Attack Chopper & Harley Davidson the Road to Sturgis which are speed sensitive games and they not always pick the SB16 when the machine is on 100 MHz)

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In this page of the manual you can see a drawing of the motherboard from this machine and it might tell you the problem that I have when I try to install a CD drive to this computer which as I said on the first post it is a pain to get it installed u.u
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Reply 4 of 12, by Stojke

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Try finding an cheap ISA SCSI Card and an external SCSI CDROM they shouldnt be expensive and saves you the trouble of internal routing and stuff. Also many devices use SCSI so who knows, maybe you will also find an Floptical or an hdd drive.

Note | LLSID | "Big boobs are important!"

Reply 5 of 12, by jheronimus

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Stojke wrote:

Try finding an cheap ISA SCSI Card and an external SCSI CDROM they shouldnt be expensive and saves you the trouble of internal routing and stuff. Also many devices use SCSI so who knows, maybe you will also find an Floptical or an hdd drive.

I've just been solving the same problem with my 486 all-in-one machine and I'd say external SCSI aren't cheap. It looks like musicians still use them for some reason, which is why the cheapest drive I could find was 35 usd (I'm in Russia).

An LPT drive like Backpack, on the other hand, turned out to be much cheaper, got one for 5,5 usd. But they are a bit rare. You also need an ECP/EPP-enabled LPT port. Otherwise it won't be usable for many games. For instance, my machine does not have enhanced LPT, so Full Throttle stutters all the time. But it is acceptable for data transfer/installing games.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 6 of 12, by Rodoko

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That sounds like a good idea, but I never had anything being SCSI, I only did use IDE, and the problem is that in my country sometimes everything vintage is a little bit expensive (doesn't matter if is locally or outside of the country) but if I can I will be going to a external SCSI (Or if I'm lucky a parallel) CDROM drive for this machine :3 It will take some time but well

And Jheronimus is right, I remember when my guitar teacher had a Panasonic made Yamaha external SCSI drive connected to his Pentium III computer

Reply 7 of 12, by Stojke

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Your only real problem is a power supply. SCSI enclosure drives are just a power supply and a bunch of cables, inside there are no custom electronics. I got a few enclosures pretty cheap, some were from old DAT tape drives.
This is the setup I used for a while to transfer data from my laptop, and later from my desktop due to lack of spare PCI Slot, to my retro machine Hard Drive: Click me baby, one more time

I used to mess around with Lynx as well, pretty fun.

Note | LLSID | "Big boobs are important!"

Reply 8 of 12, by chinny22

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My 486 has the smae style case. I've thought of 2 1/2 options to get around the long IDE problem.
1. Use a soundcard with an IDE interface this also will free up an IDE spot for another HDD if space is a problem but can be pain to configure and think it will use a bit more convenutal memory

2. Replace the HDD with a CF card. They are only small so can sit wherever is convenient. I do miss the sound of the HDD on starup though.

1/2 Do nothing 😉 If you have a large HDD and its networked you really dont need a CD drive unless you play games that use it for music.
This was my solution for my 486, just "borrow" a CD drive from another PC and copied Dos/Windows/drivers onto a 2nd partion and install the OS form there. Then I copied the games accross the network. (it also gives me an excuse to use Windows 3x on whats really a games PC)

Reply 9 of 12, by Rodoko

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Well, but Windows is installed it just to have a GUI to manage some things for example moving games to another folder etc.

As of now I don't know how to network two computers with a different kernel and I need a little bit of help on there, but the best way is the one of the SCSI or parallel CD drive for now

And the soundcard has a IDE connector but is for the supplied Panasonic made Creative drive that was bundled on a SB multimedia kit

Reply 10 of 12, by chinny22

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Win9x and Win3x network very nicely together.
Here are some instructions
http://www.yale.edu/pclt/WINWORLD/WFWG311.HTM
and here is TCP for Windows 3x
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/99891
The main thing is to make sure you get a network card that is easy to find older drivers for. most of the big brands are safe. (3 Com, Dlink, etc)

Problem with older optical drives is there is no garantee how well they work, even the younger dirves will be getting on 5 years old by now.

Reply 11 of 12, by zerker

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Note that the Microsoft link for the TCP stack no longer has a valid download. I found it here:
http://www.conradshome.com/win31/

I would also double-check the PCI standard when shopping for modern network cards, or shop somewhere with a good return policy 😎. The card I have (TP-Link SOHO TG-3269) worked great for me with the generic RTL8169SC drivers on Windows 3.11 -- once I figured out an EMM386 compatibility issue thanks to the folks here -- but I just saw a review from someone with a PCI 1.0-based system that couldn't use it.

Reply 12 of 12, by Super_Relay

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You can always try a very long rounded IDE cable for relatively cheap.

they are still seem to be easily obtainable on ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GA101200-Rounded-I … xex05anwaS-PBnQ