VOGONS


First post, by mzry

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Hey Hey,

As I mentioned in my other thread I have two 866mhz P3's ready to put in to my Asus P2B-DS mobo, but I just so happen to have two 1.4Ghz Tualatins which I haven't been able to use due to the rareness of dual Tualatin AGP mobos. Slockets are really hard to find on ebay these days but I managed to score some off ebay recently. I haven't received them yet but they were cheap enough for the risk. I'm going to assume that most slockets supported tualatin, I'm a positive thinker.

Anyone else had experience with this? I've used Slockets before back in the day, but never with dual tualatins etc.

Last edited by mzry on 2016-04-17, 12:53. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 24, by kanecvr

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It most certainly is possible, but you require either a special slotket for tualatin CPUs or a pin-modded tualatin CPU, a coppermine slotket and a motherboard with adjustable voltage that can supply as little as 1.6v to the CPU (since tualatin CPUs tipically run a t 1.45v). I've had success in running a pin-modded 1GHz tualeron on my Abit BE6-II @ 1.6v.

Reply 2 of 24, by stamasd

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The CPUs and slotkets will have to be modified to work in a BX board.

http://www.mrufer.ch/pc/tualatin2_e.html

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Reply 3 of 24, by Skyscraper

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stamasd wrote:

The CPUs and slotkets will have to be modified to work in a BX board.

http://www.mrufer.ch/pc/tualatin2_e.html

Or you can buy a modified CPU from the Korean guy on Ebay, those will run in every FC-PGA capable slotket as long as the motherboard supports 1.45V/1.475V (or the VID you jumper the slotket for).

Some motherboards don't like some cheap slotkets without voltage clamp chip or won't allow unrecognized CPUs but thats another matter.

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Reply 4 of 24, by Kodai

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With all things being equal, unless you get real lucky then you are going to either find a fairly cheap slotket that allows lower voltage settings and use a more pricey CPU that has already been modded (or has an adaptor socket on the bottom of the CPU) or do the mod yourself. Thats pretty much what was said by others. You also have to make sure that the motherboard in question has the ability to handle the voltage settings and many models of the 440BX could. But it also depends on the revision of the board as well. For example, you have two Asus P2B-F boards, and one is rev 1.01 and the other is rev 1.03. The 1.01 wont work with the tully and most slotkets, even if there is a pin mod CPU in the slotket. The rev 1.04 will though. To the best of my knowledge there is currently no list of boards for doing this and you will have to do some legwork to figure out what has what before you take the plunge. That means looking over the boards revision and looking up the stats for the board in question and comparing things like its onboard VRM's. Kinda of a pain, but its a cheaper option and I've done it to save a buck. It also helps to see if there is a BIOS for the board that adds CPU id for tualatin CPU's so you get the correct POST stats on startup, but this is not required for propper function. Just run some sort of program to check its stats like CPU-ID to verify all is well and you are good to go. An advantage to this option is overclocking is a bit easier if that a road you want to follow. I recommend something like the MSI MS-6905 Master (Ver 2.0 or 2.3 only as the early models had to be modded to work with tully's).

The other option is to spend the bucks and get a rather costly slotket that has its own VRM and external power source to allow you to use a CPU without the mod. The PowerLeap PL-iP3/T is the only slotket that does this without having to worry about a board having the correct VRM's so it is quick and simple. They show up on places like ebay about once or twice a month and arent that rare. They do tend to sell between $60 to $100 though, so they can cost a pretty penny. This option makes it harder to overclock as you have to set the CPU's speed via the rather convoluted jumpers onboard the PowerLeap and then set the correct FSB on the mobo. Sounds simple until you find yourself spending a night figuring out what double duty jumper does what as well as dealing with mobo settings to match it.

Having used both options on a host of Slot 1 mobo's, I recommend the PowerLeap method. If you aren't going to overclock its REALLY simple to just plug it in and go if the Tualatin being used is the consumer celeron version because they run on a 100MHz FSB. It becomes more of a pain if you are going to use the "-S" type server CPU's as they run on a 133MHz FSB and you are back to dealing with the jumper setup on the PowerLeap. Of course this gets rather pricey on a dual slot board, so both options are going to be something to seriously consider. The big issue with it being a dual slot board is the fact that you are going to have to run an OS with the ability to use both CPU's, so for Windows games, that means Windows 2000 and higher. On top of that, you will want to use the server CPU's (but they are not required), to get the best bang for your buck in both price and effort as those OS's have a much higher resource load when compared to something like Windows 98.

If you dual boot with something like Win 98, make sure you can disable the second CPU as they tend to run full throttle on nothing at all and it stresses out the CPU and dumps a ton of heat into the system. Dual slot 1 rigs are awsome retro rigs, but they are almost as advanced and difficult as it gets when it comes to retro X86 PC's and vintage games. That's mainly because once you go through the trouble of building such a beast, you want to match it up with the best audio and video cards you can to get the maximum benefit from all that CPU and memory bandwith that those rigs can deliver.

If you really want to go down that path and you are new to it, then be patient and ask detailed questions here. You will get lots of useful info and you can build up a heck of a vintage PC that will be envied by many. The keywords are be patient. Don't assume, ask and look. Don't toss money at hardware until you know for a fact that it will do the job you want it too. If you don't know then ask here in the forums. Vintage dual CPU game rigs are not something that the casual retro gamer just throws together if they want to avoid constant lockups, BSODS, and resets as well as bad performance and screwy audio and video errors. Its hardware that was never designed to be a gamers rig. It was designed for heavy CPU tasks like rendering CAD designs, photo editing, heavy database management, and other non game related tasks. Getting great and stable game performance out of them is not hard, but it can be complex.

Good luck with this build and let us know how things go as you are building it.

Reply 5 of 24, by mzry

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Thanks. I actually contacted the Korean guy and purchased the adapters by themselves since I already have 2x 1.4ghz S's. I'm fairly confident I can follow his instructions on soldering them correctly. We'll see.

Reply 6 of 24, by spacesaver

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1st timer here trying to build a DOS/Windows 98 PC. I've settled on 440BX for compatibility and ISA sound card. I found this thread very useful. Except now in 2020, the Powerleap adapters are rarer. I found only 1 listing on Amazon for $299. If it really has compatibility with any slot 1 motherboard, then it would be worth it, as the supply of slot 1 motherboards drys up. Example would be independent voltage setting, as Kodai pointed out. But before I make that plunge, I have doubts about other compatibility:

1. Does the BIOS need to support Tualatin or Coppermine? The 2 mobos I'm considering are the ASUS MEB-M and EliteGroup P6ZXT-Me, both mATX. But the officially supported CPUs are {PPGA Celeron} for MEB-M and {slot 1 Pentium2, slot1 Pentium3, PPGA Celeron} for P6ZXT-Me.

2. What about the clock multiplier? The clock multiplier for the ASUS MEB-M is limited to 8 (https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock370 … -m/mebm-103.pdf). So does that mean that nice Tualatin will be limited to 100 MHz * 8 ? Or does the adapter have jumpers to set the multiplier independently?

3. Does the Powerleap or similar adapters support Pentium 3 (512 KiB L2 cache), in addition to Tualatin Celeron (256 KiB) ? Kodai mentioned needing to set jumpers, but it isn't clear if it will work. I couldn't find any other post mentioning success. Could it be because of limited clock multipliers on older, 100MHz FSB motherboards, making it not worth it?

Reply 7 of 24, by darry

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spacesaver wrote on 2020-05-26, 01:23:
1st timer here trying to build a DOS/Windows 98 PC. I've settled on 440BX for compatibility and ISA sound card. I found this thr […]
Show full quote

1st timer here trying to build a DOS/Windows 98 PC. I've settled on 440BX for compatibility and ISA sound card. I found this thread very useful. Except now in 2020, the Powerleap adapters are rarer. I found only 1 listing on Amazon for $299. If it really has compatibility with any slot 1 motherboard, then it would be worth it, as the supply of slot 1 motherboards drys up. Example would be independent voltage setting, as Kodai pointed out. But before I make that plunge, I have doubts about other compatibility:

1. Does the BIOS need to support Tualatin or Coppermine? The 2 mobos I'm considering are the ASUS MEB-M and EliteGroup P6ZXT-Me, both mATX. But the officially supported CPUs are {PPGA Celeron} for MEB-M and {slot 1 Pentium2, slot1 Pentium3, PPGA Celeron} for P6ZXT-Me.

2. What about the clock multiplier? The clock multiplier for the ASUS MEB-M is limited to 8 (https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock370 … -m/mebm-103.pdf). So does that mean that nice Tualatin will be limited to 100 MHz * 8 ? Or does the adapter have jumpers to set the multiplier independently?

3. Does the Powerleap or similar adapters support Pentium 3 (512 KiB L2 cache), in addition to Tualatin Celeron (256 KiB) ? Kodai mentioned needing to set jumpers, but it isn't clear if it will work. I couldn't find any other post mentioning success. Could it be because of limited clock multipliers on older, 100MHz FSB motherboards, making it not worth it?

1. Not necessarily, but some BIOSes will refuse to boot with an "unsupported"CPU . If you're not feeling adventurous (as in patching the BIOS of your board if required), it is probably best to stick to a board that is known to work with Tualatin CPUs either because its manufacturer-provided BIOS works with it or because a patched BIOS is available for this purpose .
CAUTION : If the board you purchase needs to be flashed before it can work with a Tualatin, you will either have to use an older already supported CPU to use during flashing or have a way to flash the BIOS outside the board (EEPROM programmer, hot-flashing in other machine) .

2. Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway, board setting will have no effect on actual multiplier

3. Yes, all Tualatin desktop CPUs are supported by the Powerleap PL-IP3/T (I have one). Jumper setting are in doc linked below (for forcing a given FSB and for SMP use)
https://web.archive.org/web/20021122174912/ht … ructions%20.PDF

EDIT : I have used the Powerleap PL-IP3/T on an unsupported board with success, but that was a bit of a gamble (did not know in advance that it would work) .

Reply 8 of 24, by darry

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Here is a compatibility list for an Upgradeware Slot-T, a competitor to Powerleap . If anything, the Powerleap PL-IP3/T is probably compatible with more boards, because it has an integrated voltage regulator, which the Upgradeware Slot-T does not .

https://web.archive.org/web/20060202072822/ht … mpatibility.htm

Reply 9 of 24, by spacesaver

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"Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway"
Aha, so that's why it's not worth it to install a Pentium 3 in an adapter and running @ 100MHz FSB, because it will run 1.33x slower.

Thanks for clearing things up and congratulations on having that rare Powerleap adapter. I think I will go for that because not having low voltage seems to risky and not future proof. I checked the manual for MEL-B and it only has 2 voltage settings (hi, low, whatever that means). The P6ZXT-Me has more, but the manual doesn't tell the range.

My other alternative would be to find a bigger motherboard with native socket 370 Coppermine or Tualatin support and 1 ISA, but there seems to be none with the 440BX chipset (VIA only) Good Pentium 3 Board with ISA and Tualatin Support?

Reply 10 of 24, by darry

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spacesaver wrote on 2020-05-26, 02:58:
"Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway" Aha, so that's why it's not worth it to install a Pentium 3 in an adapter and run […]
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"Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway"
Aha, so that's why it's not worth it to install a Pentium 3 in an adapter and running @ 100MHz FSB, because it will run 1.33x slower.

Thanks for clearing things up and congratulations on having that rare Powerleap adapter. I think I will go for that because not having low voltage seems to risky and not future proof. I checked the manual for MEL-B and it only has 2 voltage settings (hi, low, whatever that means). The P6ZXT-Me has more, but the manual doesn't tell the range.

My other alternative would be to find a bigger motherboard with native socket 370 Coppermine or Tualatin support and 1 ISA, but there seems to be none with the 440BX chipset (VIA only) Good Pentium 3 Board with ISA and Tualatin Support?

It is, of course, your choice, but why limit yourself to the P6ZXT-Me and MEL-B ? There are plenty of larger ATX slot 1 440BX boards for less than 100$ US dollars (including shipping to the US) that would work well with the Powerleap adapter .

Reply 11 of 24, by Tetrium

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spacesaver wrote on 2020-05-26, 02:58:
"Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway" Aha, so that's why it's not worth it to install a Pentium 3 in an adapter and run […]
Show full quote

"Multiplier is locked on Tualatin CPUs anyway"
Aha, so that's why it's not worth it to install a Pentium 3 in an adapter and running @ 100MHz FSB, because it will run 1.33x slower.

Thanks for clearing things up and congratulations on having that rare Powerleap adapter. I think I will go for that because not having low voltage seems to risky and not future proof. I checked the manual for MEL-B and it only has 2 voltage settings (hi, low, whatever that means). The P6ZXT-Me has more, but the manual doesn't tell the range.

My other alternative would be to find a bigger motherboard with native socket 370 Coppermine or Tualatin support and 1 ISA, but there seems to be none with the 440BX chipset (VIA only) Good Pentium 3 Board with ISA and Tualatin Support?

One other option would be to get a 1400MHz Tualeron as these will run at 100MHz FSB with 14x CPU multiplier. These will probably be only a little bit slower clock for clock when compared to a real Tualatin 1400.

Regarding the ASUS MEL-B, that motherboard is designed to run only with Celeron Mendocino and I think uses the 440LX chipset. It should be very similar to the ASUS MEL-C I have here myself.
This chipset will most likely not run at 100MHz FSB (and it will be one hefty overclock if you do get it to run at that speed).
The ECS P6ZXT-Me I had to look up as I'm unfamiliar with that board. Apparently chipsetted with a 440ZX (which is basically a more budget-oriented version of the 440BX), it should at least in theory be easier to base your intended build on that board instead of the MEL-B

Some trivia: The ASUS MEL-B and MEL-C also had some BX 'counterparts' which partnumbers started with MEB. MEB was the BX version while MEL was LX and this kind of associative motherboard naming scheme sorta continued with ASUS motherboards like CUBX and CUSL2 (Coppermine) and TUSL2-C (Tualatin) 😜

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Reply 12 of 24, by boxpressed

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I used a Tualeron 1300 (couldn't source a 1400 for a good price) and a Powerleap with my Intel SE440BX-2. It worked just fine and was quite fast. But the stock fan was super loud, maybe the loudest fan I've used in a retro build. Rather than I replace it, I just stopped using the solution altogether. It was a fun experiment but was overkill for that build. I dropped back to a 1GHz Coppermine and then to a 550MHz Coppermine. This was because I'd built a Socket A machine with an Athlon XP 2400+, and maxing out the BX didn't seem necessary anymore. It was a great system for testing new hardware because of its stability, and I didn't need a super-fast CPU to do that.

Reply 13 of 24, by Errius

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Hoho, am I really sitting on $2000 worth of powerleap adaptors?

The reason I have so many is that this was a very common upgrade in the early 2000s, along with bumping the RAM up to 768 MB, installing Windows 2000 or XP, and putting in a newer video card. All of my friends and relatives brought me their old computers to upgrade, and when the machines finally died or were replaced, they came back to me for good.

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 14 of 24, by CHiLL72

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Tetrium wrote on 2020-05-26, 12:16:

Some trivia: The ASUS MEL-B and MEL-C also had some BX 'counterparts' which partnumbers started with MEB. MEB was the BX version while MEL was LX and this kind of associative motherboard naming scheme sorta continued with ASUS motherboards like CUBX and CUSL2 (Coppermine) and TUSL2-C (Tualatin) 😜

For a second there I was afraid you were going to mention the Spice Girls.... 😀

Waveblaster MIDI boards: https://waveblaster.nl - online now!

Reply 15 of 24, by Tetrium

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CHiLL72 wrote on 2020-05-26, 17:55:
Tetrium wrote on 2020-05-26, 12:16:

Some trivia: The ASUS MEL-B and MEL-C also had some BX 'counterparts' which partnumbers started with MEB. MEB was the BX version while MEL was LX and this kind of associative motherboard naming scheme sorta continued with ASUS motherboards like CUBX and CUSL2 (Coppermine) and TUSL2-C (Tualatin) 😜

For a second there I was afraid you were going to mention the Spice Girls.... 😀

For some reason I think that these names that Asus picked, were not 100% absolutely purely coincidental 😜
But when I saw the part number of that Asus motherboard (the MEL-C), I 🤣-ed, for real 😜
Almost as funny as this other card which was revision "XD" 😜

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Reply 16 of 24, by Cga.8086

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there was one slocket made by "upgradeware" that i belive , or i thought it was compatible with a Tualatin 1.4ghz (not tualeron) and a 440bx motherboard, the board needed to be on their list of compatibility, like for examble a soyo 6ba IV, and others, and on their site they included a list and comments like use this and that bios to make it work.

but i never had one, and i don´t really know for sure, if it was meant for tualatin or tualeron.

I am sure some guys on this forum had it, and made some tests on a gigabyte board and they could not make it work with a tualatin 1.4gzh

Reply 17 of 24, by spacesaver

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Alright, I gave up on my small form factor obsession and bought a ASUS CUBX-E on eBay. What changed my mind is reading Anandtech's excellent review of 133MHz 440BX motherboards on 6/2/2000. I realized how much I was missing compared to those 2 smaller, older boards: ATA 100, more USB ports, good BIOS support. Plus, I didn't feel like buy the expensive Powerleap adapter and hearing the VRMs might not be as good as the motherboard ones.

I hope that motherboard doesn't have the capacitor plague. Not a big deal since will probably have to replace them with much better polymer caps eventually.

"Regarding the ASUS MEL-B" I never considered MEL-B because it's 66 MHz only. Excuse the typo I made in my 2nd post.

Last edited by spacesaver on 2020-05-27, 11:46. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 18 of 24, by flupke11

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I've tested the upgradeware Slot-T on quite a few 133 Mhz capable Slot-1 mainboards, including an overclocked Asus P3B-F. All worked with the 1,4S.

The Powerleap will put less stress on the VRMs, since it does its own power housekeeping on the PCB.

370 LinLin socket adapter in combination with a standard Coppermine slotket works comparable to the Upgradeware.

In my experience, there's no difference in support between the Celeron and the PIII-S. If the Tualeron works, the Tualaking will as well (at full speed providing FSB133).

Reply 19 of 24, by wiretap

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I have two of the Upgradeware Slot-T adapters.. currently searching for a compatible or semi-compatible motherboard for dual processors. (obviously I would take the celeron's out of mine and put PIII's in there) It looks like it can be done according to the Upgradeware website, and one or two builds I've seen on the web that someone used dual Tualatins with Upgradeware or Powerleap adapters.

It looks like the best contenders so far are the Asus P3C-D and HP Kayak XM600. But I believe dual Tualatins will work on the Tyan Thunder S1836 (possibly the Tyan Tiger 133 S1834) and Asus P2B-D and P2B-DS according to some users who have built them.

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