VOGONS


My P90 restored

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First post, by FuzzyLogic

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Hi everyone. I've been lurking Vogons for years, but I’ve never had an account or posted anything. I enjoyed the various “my first computer” stories and threads so I thought I would share mine.

I was cleaning up my basement and came across my first computer. I hadn't seen it in years and it was in parts and pieces. But being the hoarder that I am, I knew I had most of the original parts for it. My goal is to put it back together and get it working again.

Here it is. A Pentium 90 beige box I bought in '94. It came with only 8 megs which I upgraded to 32 megs when RAM dropped a little in price. The RAM cost as much or more as the P90 and the motherboard; a fortune for a teenager.

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The monitor is a Mag Innovision 15" that will do up to 1280x1024. I don't remember the refresh rate, but I remember that 1152x864 or something like that didn't have flicker. It was also blurry at the max resolution. Right now it's in a sad state as the picture is really dim and the VGA cable's blue line is broken. I have to kink the cable to get it to work. I read somewhere that sometimes CRTs get dim when air gets in the tube. But I hope it's only a bad capacitor or something simple like that. I'd love to find someone who could repair it.

The motherboard on this puppy is an Intel OEM board with a 430NX "Neptune" chipset. The manual doesn't mention that the board is made by Intel at all, but the AA number on the motherboard itself gives it away.

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32 megs of RAM. It has four chips on the back. Why? I’m sure its not ECC RAM.

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Manual

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Systems Specs. It has that buggy RZ1000, but I never suffered from any disk corruption in DOS, Windows, or Linux.

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Of course I overclocked it to 100Mhz, but it was occasionally unstable. Everything was fine when I upgraded to 60ns RAM.

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Here's the CPU with a PC Power & Cooling heatsink and fan. The original HSF died after a couple of years. I plugged this one up and it still works well. The P90 is one of those that has a gold colored bump on top. I remember writing Intel to ask for a CPU replacement when the FDIV bug was discovered. I was denied a replacement.

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Here is the video card. A Diamond Stealth 64 DRAM 2MB powered by an S3 Vision868 chip. But the Vision868 wasn't out in '94 when I bought the clone. The original card was a Diamond Stealth 64 DRAM 1MB with a Vision864 chip. I'll admit I did something that I'm not proud of. In '95 I went to a big box computer store to buy one with 2 megs as I wanted more colors and higher resolutions. The new card had a Vision868 chip, but otherwise looked identical to the 864. So I packed up and returned my old card. Again, not something I'm proud of. I was a poor teenager who didn't know any better.

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My original AWE32 CT2760. Or is it? I ran my P90 for several months without a sound card, but when the AWE32 came out, I knew I had to have it. The problem was is that I was a high school student with no money. I ended up selling my Super Nintendo with SF2, Super Metroid, Contra 3, and Secret of Mana to get me closer to the magical $300 number.

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Sometime in around '95 the joystick port got screwed up (it moved to the left on its own.) Plus the warranty had expired a month before it broke. I was pissed off. But what was I to do? Pull the old switcheroo of course! I figured I'd let Circuit City take care of the warranty this time (I told them it was broken and they were fine with it.)

I remember that, despite having the same model numbers, the new AWE32 had a different chip layout. Maybe it had a few less chips. I can't remember the details. But there could be minor differences between cards with the same model number.

I didn't run it with 512KBs for long as I pilfered two 1M simms from my dad's old 386 (he had upgraded to a 486SX.) But sometime in '99 I got 8 megs for it. Unfortunately, the clips on the simm sockets broke when I was pulling them back to get the simms out. I made a clamp using a PII peltier/heatsink retaining clip and electrical tape. It's ghetto, but it works. I would like to replace the SIMM sockets, but I haven't found a place that sells angled ones that look that will fit. That and it would take some soldering skill.

Another thing about this AWE32. I actually used it in my main PC up until January 2005! Thats 10 years of constant use, and money well spent. I only replaced it with a Audigy 2 ZS because my new Pentium M motherboard didn't have an ISA slot.

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Here's the harddrive, a Maxtor 546MB. I powered it up and made a disk image. There are no bad sectors and reading the entire drive took less than five minutes using a USB adapter. Try doing that with a 4TB drive. When I boot the computer up for the first time in years, I'll dd the image onto a 1GB CF card. I mounted the image (read only) under linux and had a fun time looking at all of my old files and programs.

I think I threw away the CD-ROM I bought for this PC, but I’ll look for it anyway. It was one of those multimedia 4X kits and it cost a lost. I regretted buying it because I couldn’t digitally audio tracks with it; there was a hardware imposed limitation. Also, the rubber on the spindle got dusty or dried out and the discs slipped when it was starting up.

The original cheap keyboard and mouse were also trashed.

This post is getting long, so I'll stop for now. I’m going to put it together and turn it on now. I will post more soon.

Reply 1 of 34, by clueless1

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Welcome. 😀 Enjoyed reading your story and looking at the photos. I'll admit doing the "old switcheroo" a few times in my youth. Like you, I'm not proud, but I'll bet it was fairly common practice back in the day. Hope it all fires up when you get it together!

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Reply 2 of 34, by nforce4max

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I really like this build but that maxtor is best in a 486 (got two of them just like that) and they are crazy durable. Nice gold top pentium 😀

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 3 of 34, by candle_86

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Yea I did the old switcharoo myself back in the day with a Soundblaster 16PCI. I accidentally broke capacitor off of mine back in 2000, so I took it back to Wal Mart, bought another SB 16 PCI and then went back the next day to return "it".

Reply 5 of 34, by devius

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FuzzyLogic wrote:

A Pentium 90 beige box I bought in '94. It came with only 8 megs which I upgraded to 32 megs when RAM dropped a little in price. The RAM cost as much or more as the P90 and the motherboard; a fortune for a teenager.

I can imagine. My 486 bought in very late 1994 came with only 4MB, and I asked the seller how much would a RAM upgrade cost and he said it would be about 50€ for each megabyte 😲

FuzzyLogic wrote:

Right now it's in a sad state as the picture is really dim and the VGA cable's blue line is broken. I have to kink the cable to get it to work. I read somewhere that sometimes CRTs get dim when air gets in the tube. But I hope it's only a bad capacitor or something simple like that. I'd love to find someone who could repair it.

It's possible that it only requires adjusting some trimpots on the inside. I had a 15" Samsung bought in 1998 that was also getting dim a few years ago, and I opened it up, adjusted a trimpot and it was back to it's original brightness. Fixing the cable will be tougher if it's attached to the monitor.

FuzzyLogic wrote:

It has four chips on the back. Why? I’m sure its not ECC RAM.

If it has 12 chips it has parity checking (not ECC because the 430NX only supports parity), although this can probably be disabled in the BIOS.

FuzzyLogic wrote:

I'll admit I did something that I'm not proud of. ... So I packed up and returned my old card.

Still better than throwing it in the trash!

FuzzyLogic wrote:

I ended up selling my Super Nintendo with SF2, Super Metroid, Contra 3, and Secret of Mana to get me closer to the magical $300 number.

Funny how nowadays you would probably get more than $300 for that bundle (assuming the games were complete).

Reply 6 of 34, by MCGA

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I had a Neptune board with a P90, 40 megs of ram, a Mach 64 video card, and an AWE32 with a Pro-Logic Daughter card. It ran perfectly stable with no heat issues at all at 100 Mhz -- I Just had to move one jumper. It was an excellent system...

But then I did something REALLY STUPID! I took advice from a friend about how awesome EDO RAM was... So I sold my board, my RAM, and bought a Trident board ( MASSIVE POS!!! ) It ran super hot at 90Mhz "idle," there was no way I could even jump my CPU to 100 -- the motherboard was hot to the touch in parts. I could only afford 8 megs of this CRAPPY EDO RAM -- which provided absolutely no performance gain that I could perceive, and I really ended up losing performance... And I had to even sell my Mach 64 at a loss to buy a shorter version of the card to fit on to this newer-crappy-motherboard.

And the TWO Maxtor drives I had in my system failed about a year after I sold it to my friend, which in hindsight I blame on the POS Trident board even if it wasn't its fault.

Anyways, great system you've kept! I'm quite jealous. It's the Pentium I'm hoping to rebuild someday. 😀

Reply 7 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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clueless1 wrote:

Welcome. 😀 Enjoyed reading your story and looking at the photos. I'll admit doing the "old switcheroo" a few times in my youth. Like you, I'm not proud, but I'll bet it was fairly common practice back in the day. Hope it all fires up when you get it together!

Glad you liked it. And yes I think it was common now that I think about it. I remember buying a ethernet card from Best Buy in '99 and found a PCB from a Seagate ST-251 inside!

Reply 8 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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nforce4max wrote:

I really like this build but that maxtor is best in a 486 (got two of them just like that) and they are crazy durable. Nice gold top pentium 😀

I'm glad it is still working, but it does sound a little louder than I remember it. I think it's "period correct." It was manufactured in June '94 and I bought the PC in November '94.

Reply 9 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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devius wrote:

It's possible that it only requires adjusting some trimpots on the inside. I had a 15" Samsung bought in 1998 that was also getting dim a few years ago, and I opened it up, adjusted a trimpot and it was back to it's original brightness. Fixing the cable will be tougher if it's attached to the monitor.

That's really encouraging. I hope it's as simple as that. And yes, the cable is attached.

devius wrote:

If it has 12 chips it has parity checking (not ECC because the 430NX only supports parity), although this can probably be disabled in the BIOS.

You're right. It's parity RAM. I don't know why I bought that RAM, but I'm glad it worked. There is no parity option in the BIOS.

devius wrote:

Funny how nowadays you would probably get more than $300 for that bundle (assuming the games were complete).

You're right. I just looked up Super Metroid on eBay and the first boxed cartridge had a price of $150.

Reply 10 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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MCGA wrote:
I had a Neptune board with a P90, 40 megs of ram, a Mach 64 video card, and an AWE32 with a Pro-Logic Daughter card. It ran per […]
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I had a Neptune board with a P90, 40 megs of ram, a Mach 64 video card, and an AWE32 with a Pro-Logic Daughter card. It ran perfectly stable with no heat issues at all at 100 Mhz -- I Just had to move one jumper. It was an excellent system...

But then I did something REALLY STUPID! I took advice from a friend about how awesome EDO RAM was... So I sold my board, my RAM, and bought a Trident board ( MASSIVE POS!!! ) It ran super hot at 90Mhz "idle," there was no way I could even jump my CPU to 100 -- the motherboard was hot to the touch in parts. I could only afford 8 megs of this CRAPPY EDO RAM -- which provided absolutely no performance gain that I could perceive, and I really ended up losing performance... And I had to even sell my Mach 64 at a loss to buy a shorter version of the card to fit on to this newer-crappy-motherboard.

And the TWO Maxtor drives I had in my system failed about a year after I sold it to my friend, which in hindsight I blame on the POS Trident board even if it wasn't its fault.

Anyways, great system you've kept! I'm quite jealous. It's the Pentium I'm hoping to rebuild someday. 😀

That really sucked. Do you remember what motherboard you got to replace it? I actually replaced my Neptune board with an AOpen AP5TC (430TX) and it worked great with the P90, plus I got SDRAM. But I bought a P233 MMX soon after and the P90 went back to the Neptune board.

Reply 11 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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And here it is: Beige Beauty. I put in an NEC 4X ATAPI CD-ROM. It came with a Creative Labs multimedia upgrade kit (SB16 + CD-ROM) that was in my ad’s 486SX. It’s similar to the one someone was trying to identity earlier.

hylGQJN.jpg

This is exactly what I did not want to see. Dead battery on a Dallas 12887 RTC. Are there replacements still sold? I really don’t want to Dremel it out. The worst part is that it is soldered to the motherboard. I rebooted and unplugged it a few times and the clock is advancing, but the CMOS settings are not being saved.

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It has a very simple BIOS. And everything seems to be working fine except for saving the settings. I'll have to rely on autodetecting the compact flash card because the settings don't save even when the computer is powered on.

Reply 12 of 34, by MCGA

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FuzzyLogic wrote:

That really sucked. Do you remember what motherboard you got to replace it? I actually replaced my Neptune board with an AOpen AP5TC (430TX) and it worked great with the P90, plus I got SDRAM. But I bought a P233 MMX soon after and the P90 went back to the Neptune board.

I only recall the chipset and a correction, it was the "Triton," not the trident. I thought it was just another Intel board, but it's been too long. BTW, your post helped me track down a new Neptune based board, but they're not cheap.

And it's crazy to see that the Neptune supported 512 megs. The POS I replaced mine with only supported 128 megs of vomit memory.

**Nevermind, I see your BIOS is at 100mz*** 😀
deleted...

That BIOS makes me happy! I remember that screen.

Reply 13 of 34, by Anonymous Coward

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You shouldn't have to use a dremel to remove the Dallas chip. Just get a pair of angled cuticle clippers, and clip each pin one at a time. Then you can use a soldering iron and a pair of needle nosed pliers to remove the stubs. Solder in a socket.

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Reply 14 of 34, by devius

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You really have to de-solder it. Replacements are still being sold but you should put a socket in its place so that you can change the RTC easily in the future. Assuming the motherboard will last another 15 years, which at this point is a big unknown.

I had to replace the RTC on that exact same board model and it wasn't easy. I never thought about using an angled cuticle clipper, because there wasn't enough space around the RTC for using regular cuticle clippers, and I didn't know they came in angled form as well. I used de-soldering braid and a de-soldering pump to slowly remove solder from each pin. It sure took long enough... 😢

MCGA wrote:

The POS I replaced mine with only supported 128 megs of vomit memory.

Oh wow, you're really upset about that replacement 🤣 Well, in your younger self defense, information about these things was a lot scarcer back then.

Reply 16 of 34, by FuzzyLogic

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

You shouldn't have to use a dremel to remove the Dallas chip. Just get a pair of angled cuticle clippers, and clip each pin one at a time. Then you can use a soldering iron and a pair of needle nosed pliers to remove the stubs. Solder in a socket.

Sorry, I worded that wrong. I didn't mean to say that I was going to remove the RTC with a Dremel tool. There is a hack where you dremel through the RTC to get to the pins and attach a new battery.

devius wrote:

You really have to de-solder it. Replacements are still being sold but you should put a socket in its place so that you can change the RTC easily in the future. Assuming the motherboard will last another 15 years, which at this point is a big unknown.

I had to replace the RTC on that exact same board model and it wasn't easy. I never thought about using an angled cuticle clipper, because there wasn't enough space around the RTC for using regular cuticle clippers, and I didn't know they came in angled form as well. I used de-soldering braid and a de-soldering pump to slowly remove solder from each pin. It sure took long enough... 😢

That's my plan. I want to make sure this computer is alive after I'd dead 😀 This looks interesting DS12887 drop-in replacement

It's soldered tight up against the board, so clipping might be really hard. I bought an air rework station a while back and have had success using it to pull out through-hole components, but I haven't tried a large DIP yet.

Reply 17 of 34, by stamasd

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You don't necessarily need a hot air rework station to desolder through-the-hole components. But you do need a solder pump:

H8581-2-6d13.jpg

It has a spring-loaded piston inside, and a heat-resistent tip (Teflon). You press the piston down, melt the solder on the opposite side of the component (a regular soldering iron will do), then quickly apply the tip of the pump to the solder point and press the button. It releases the piston and sucks the molten solder, freeing the pin. You have to do it for each pin separately. It leaves a pretty clean hole, which is good for mounting a replacement part later.

I have this exact model, and it works very well. They cost a couple of bucks on ebay.

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 18 of 34, by devius

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stamasd wrote:

You don't necessarily need a hot air rework station to desolder through-the-hole components. But you do need a solder pump:

I did the procedure on this board, and there's zero room for heating the pins from the component side. You can sort of do it from the other side, but the solder pump isn't as effective then. Trust me, it required a lot of work hours to get the RTC out using a solder pump and desoldering braid. In the end, the braid was the better solution in this case.

With the hot air rework station it should be way easier.

Reply 19 of 34, by MMaximus

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Really cool story - thanks for sharing! Brings back memories as I had a P90 with the same board and 8megs of RAM in 1994 as well. When a few years ago I decided to use it again after a 15 years or so hiatus, it worked for a few months and then the Dallas RTC finally gave in. I bought a replacement chip but being quite discouraged by the soldering involved I decided to give it away to Devius... who seem to have successfully replaced the RTC 😀

Here are a few pics of the system:

Highscreen Vobis "SkyTower" Pentium 90 - CT1750 & SCC-1

Hard Disk Sounds