VOGONS


First post, by Whiskey

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Greetings, this is my first post here on vogons.org.
(If this is in the wrong place please forgive me admin!)
I hope anyone interested can help me decide what to use for graphics in a K6-2/500 DOS/W98 era gaming PC I've been resurrecting.

The Build:-
Gigabyte GA-5AA Motherboard - With PS/2, Parallel and USB header Brackets installed.
AMD K6-2/500AFX 2.2v Super Socket 7 CPU
Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2230 ISA Sound Card (I also have a CT4750 SB 128 PCI. Which I don't think I'll be using for 'reasons' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD42SeYVTe0 )
768MB SDRAM PC100/PC133* (not sure if this is running at 100 or 133).
Realtek 10/100 LAN Card
HDD 200mb ~ 120GB (One of the many old IDE drives I have)
SD to IDE Adapter with a Class10 Samsung SDXC Pro 64GB Card
2x Mitsumi 3.5" 1.44 Floppy Drives
52x IDE CD-ROM Drive w/ Audio pass-through [BCD F560D] (Has a ECS sticker on it but was manufactured by Top Glory Electronics)
40x IDE CD-ROM Drive (This one is much longer and is made by LG [CRD-8400B])
200W AT Power Supply (The GA-5AA supports AT & ATX power. However the current AT power supply is wired directly into the power button and heat shrink'd. Any advice on changing over to an ATX 450W is welcome.)

The Cards:-
I've done a bit of research and I'm familiar with most of the cards I have available as they are out of machines I've had or built. I've also checked out the very helpful DOS_TESTS page.
I'm open to other card suggestions if there is a clear choice I haven't even considered, but any personal experience or knowledge is very welcome.

http://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ - The DOS compatibility chart.

PCI CARDS
3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI - Gets real hot, but good compatibility on the DOS_TESTS chart.
Cirrus Logic CL-GD5446 (HC-A) PCI - This one is pretty much green across the board on the tests, but only has 2MB of memory and a max res of 800x600.
Matrox MYSTIQUE PCI (MYST/2BI http://old.vgamuseum.info/history-tree/612-ma … x-mystique.html) - No info on the test chart for this one, i'm pretty sure its from an old Pentium machine circa 1996 and ran OK.
Hercules 3D Prophet 4000XT 64MB PCI - Not a lot of information on this one, It seems to be a budget card from around 2001.

AGP
ATI Radeon 7200 SE AGP (aka the R100 166 MHz Radeon DDR) - This one fails on a lot of the scrolling tests, but as the AGP card it would be primarily for Win98 gaming.
nVidia GeForce FX5600 AGP - A DirectX 9 card, not on the test chart but the GeForce 6800GS is and scores well with compatibility in DOS.
SiS 6326 AGP - Pretty average card as far as the compatibility goes, seems to really not get on with Duke3D (a problem for me).

I hope to stick around and post my progress if anyone is interested. I'll post some pics as soon as i get a chance, Thanks for reading.
Whiskey.

Last edited by Whiskey on 2016-12-12, 01:59. Edited 4 times in total.

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 1 of 57, by noshutdown

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my vote goes to the voodoo3, not only good at dos support but also less prone to agp compatibility issues, especially since you have an ali5 board.
if you are concerned about the heat, just glue a small fan on it by yourself. just think, even the v3-3500 doesn't come with any active cooling fan.

Reply 3 of 57, by nforce4max

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Just slap a fan on the V3 and go to town with it as it is the best card out of the lot in terms of performance and compatibility for a wide range of games. There are multiple ways to mount a cooler onto it depending on the type of cooler that it has but since most V3 2K pci have the smaller heatsink which you can use any old screws from a socket 7/370/A cooler and mount a 25mm fan. There are a small number of V3 2K pci that have the ribbed aluminum cooler that isn't painted so I would just use hot snot (hot glue) and glue the fan on.

Common and easy to work with. http://www.vgamuseum.info/images/palcal/3dfx/ … 3dfx_top_hq.jpg
Less common and just resort to gluing on the fan. www.falconfly.de/identify/Voodoo3_2000_PCI_(SG-RAM).jpg

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 4 of 57, by archsan

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noshutdown wrote:

if you are concerned about the heat, just glue a small fan on it by yourself. just think, even the v3-3500 doesn't come with any active cooling fan.

nforce4max wrote:

Less common and just resort to gluing on the fan. www.falconfly.de/identify/Voodoo3_2000_PCI_(SG-RAM).jpg

Um.. attach a fan yes, but glue?! You'll want to clean your fans often (right? I know I'm not alone...) and it's much easier to do when the fans are detached from your system! 😁

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."—Arthur C. Clarke
"No way. Installing the drivers on these things always gives me a headache."—Guybrush Threepwood (on cutting-edge voodoo technology)

Reply 5 of 57, by Whiskey

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Thanks noshutdown & keenmaster486! I was leaning towards the Voodoo3 defiantly for the PCI card. I might put the FX5600 in the AGP too purely for Windows Gaming as its a 256MB card. Unless having both a PCI and AGP card causes some problems. If i can get my hands on a Voodoo 4 or 5 I might just solo that.

EDIT: nforce4max I'd read about extra cooling on the Voodoos I have a few fans that will fit on its heat sink nicely.

Last edited by Whiskey on 2016-07-29, 01:12. Edited 1 time in total.

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 6 of 57, by nforce4max

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archsan wrote:
noshutdown wrote:

if you are concerned about the heat, just glue a small fan on it by yourself. just think, even the v3-3500 doesn't come with any active cooling fan.

nforce4max wrote:

Less common and just resort to gluing on the fan. www.falconfly.de/identify/Voodoo3_2000_PCI_(SG-RAM).jpg

Um.. attach a fan yes, but glue?! You'll want to clean your fans often (right? I know I'm not alone...) and it's much easier to do when the fans are detached from your system! 😁

Hot snot comes off easy 😉

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 7 of 57, by leileilol

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The bottleneck of the CPU won't drive the V3 too hot. I'd pick it for its 3dnow-optimized drivers. It's no secondary card however and also it's the lower-end variant so you might not actually get the performance edge with it (as many K6+Voodoo enthusiasts have strived for in 98-00)

The 4000XT is a PowerVR Kyro II, and those generally suck on anything that isn't an Intel due to floatprecsion-heavy drivers and also needs a much faster CPU to compensate for its lack of hardware T&L, and it doesn't support SGL/SGL2 so forget that.

Last edited by leileilol on 2016-07-29, 01:18. Edited 5 times in total.

apsosig.png

Reply 8 of 57, by Whiskey

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Would the card benefit most from the fan being mounted above the heat sink or on the reverse side of the board over the chip. There are 2 holes (one in top left, one bottom right of the sink).

EDIT:

leileilol wrote:

The bottleneck of the CPU won't drive the V3 too hot. I'd pick it for its 3dnow-optimized drivers. It's no secondary card however
The 4000XT is a PowerVR Kyro II, and those generally suck on anything that isn't an Intel so forget that.

I hadn't considered the fact about the drivers being designed for the rest of the system, was that a big thing back then? No wonder everyone hated messing with drivers until XP came along.

EDIT 2: Am I right in thinking you could link-up two matching Voodoo cards of this generation? Does it work with one AGP and one PCI if I can get a hold of a AGP variant? Or am I better off just getting a Voodoo 4/5?

Last edited by Whiskey on 2016-07-29, 01:20. Edited 1 time in total.

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 9 of 57, by leileilol

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Well I wouldn't use any modern (post-01) hardware with older (pre-00) CPUs for their fat driver binaries and DX9 dependency. It's unlikely you'll be able to play a GF6-warranting DX9 game on the K6 anyway

And no, you can only link two PCI Voodoo2s together. You can INSTALL a secondary Voodoo1/2 with a host Voodoo3/4/5 but not use both at the same time and you can't link them, however there's that degrading of image/signal quality to consider.

Last edited by leileilol on 2016-07-29, 01:24. Edited 2 times in total.

apsosig.png

Reply 10 of 57, by psychz

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Mount the fan above the heatsink. No SLI for V3s. Indeed such an nVidia would be over-overkill. V3 would cover 90% of your needs though...

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Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

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Reply 11 of 57, by archsan

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nforce4max wrote:

Hot snot comes off easy 😉

Fumes... hazardous... cable tie FTW! Actually I'd just clean using pressurized air/blower with a vacuum nearby. No biggies either way. 😜 Sorry offtopic...

I have V3 2000 and 3000 and the 2000 shouldn't be that hot, though for longevity's sake it's still good to add a fan (just on top of the heatsink will do).

Anyway, If you could switch between AGP and PCI video easily from the BIOS, having the FX 5600 (in addition to the V3 PCI) wouldn't hurt would it? Unless you're going to use that card for another system.

P.S. Kill your SiS6326... with fire! Calling it "average" would be a gross overstatement. I know, I had one. 😁

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."—Arthur C. Clarke
"No way. Installing the drivers on these things always gives me a headache."—Guybrush Threepwood (on cutting-edge voodoo technology)

Reply 12 of 57, by Whiskey

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archsan wrote:
Fumes... hazardous... cable tie FTW! Actually I'd just clean using pressurized air/blower with a vacuum nearby. No biggies eithe […]
Show full quote
nforce4max wrote:

Hot snot comes off easy 😉

Fumes... hazardous... cable tie FTW! Actually I'd just clean using pressurized air/blower with a vacuum nearby. No biggies either way. 😜 Sorry offtopic...

I have V3 2000 and 3000 and the 2000 shouldn't be that hot, though for longevity's sake it's still good to add a fan (just on top of the heatsink will do).

Anyway, If you could switch between AGP and PCI video easily from the BIOS, having the FX 5600 (in addition to the V3 PCI) wouldn't hurt would it? Unless you're going to use that card for another system.

P.S. Kill your SiS6326... with fire! Calling it "average" would be a gross overstatement. I know, I had one. 😁

20160729_023019.jpg 20160729_023002.jpg
Cable ties seem a little neater than getting out the snotgun.

I do have a few more systems which could use it, It would go nicely with a AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (The FX 5600). And as for the SiS card, before I tested it this afternoon I thought it was dead as a Norwegian Blue, but no it lives!

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 13 of 57, by archsan

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Nice! The good ol' "AAVID" logo fits the retro look too. 😀

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."—Arthur C. Clarke
"No way. Installing the drivers on these things always gives me a headache."—Guybrush Threepwood (on cutting-edge voodoo technology)

Reply 14 of 57, by nforce4max

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Whiskey wrote:
https://s31.postimg.org/gkrn9kb1j/20160729_023019.jpg https://s32.postimg.org/547rkze3l/20160729_023002.jpg Cable ties seem a li […]
Show full quote
archsan wrote:
Fumes... hazardous... cable tie FTW! Actually I'd just clean using pressurized air/blower with a vacuum nearby. No biggies eithe […]
Show full quote
nforce4max wrote:

Hot snot comes off easy 😉

Fumes... hazardous... cable tie FTW! Actually I'd just clean using pressurized air/blower with a vacuum nearby. No biggies either way. 😜 Sorry offtopic...

I have V3 2000 and 3000 and the 2000 shouldn't be that hot, though for longevity's sake it's still good to add a fan (just on top of the heatsink will do).

Anyway, If you could switch between AGP and PCI video easily from the BIOS, having the FX 5600 (in addition to the V3 PCI) wouldn't hurt would it? Unless you're going to use that card for another system.

P.S. Kill your SiS6326... with fire! Calling it "average" would be a gross overstatement. I know, I had one. 😁

20160729_023019.jpg 20160729_023002.jpg
Cable ties seem a little neater than getting out the snotgun.

I do have a few more systems which could use it, It would go nicely with a AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (The FX 5600). And as for the SiS card, before I tested it this afternoon I thought it was dead as a Norwegian Blue, but no it lives!

Didn't expect you to have the third version but what I had said is still valid. I don't use zip ties, I use bolts (typical 2000s excess) 😎

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 15 of 57, by Whiskey

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Cheers archsan! I've been going through boxes and boxes of computer 'junk' (as the boxes are labelled so) first time I've seen some of these bit in years. Luckily one of said boxes was just heatsinks and fans for days.

nforce4max wrote:

Didn't expect you to have the third version but what I had said is still valid. I don't use zip ties, I use bolts (typical 2000s excess) 😎

How can you tell its the 3rd version? I was under the impression it was Rev.1 as per the repeated use of the 1 in a square on the top right of the board. All other images I can find of this card have a 4 in a box there instead.

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 16 of 57, by nforce4max

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Whiskey wrote:

Cheers archsan! I've been going through boxes and boxes of computer 'junk' (as the boxes are labelled so) first time I've seen some of these bit in years. Luckily one of said boxes was just heatsinks and fans for days.

nforce4max wrote:

Didn't expect you to have the third version but what I had said is still valid. I don't use zip ties, I use bolts (typical 2000s excess) 😎

How can you tell its the 3rd version? I was under the impression it was Rev.1 as per the repeated use of the 1 in a square on the top right of the board. All other images I can find of this card have a 4 in a box there instead.

You must not have looked at all, I linked pictures of the SGRAM version of the card that uses a different pcb which is the more common version of this card and it doesn't have the mounting holes. Your version can mount modded coolers and fans much easier without needing to resort to less desirable methods such as gluing.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 17 of 57, by Whiskey

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Ah sorry the link didn't work but i see it now. Yea that one has a 3 in the top corner. Ha i understand now, sorry its 3AM here I should go to bed.

Thanks everyone, I've taken your advice on the extra Voodoo cooling and will post back after some rest with any developments.

I stream retro games every wednesday here & I dump the recordings here

Reply 18 of 57, by nforce4max

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For other people can find (google searchers)

Oops, I think I killed my Voodoo3 (just don't make the mistakes that are in that thread).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f0gGcLlElSE/Tu2POVl … B2w/s1600/3.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L39WFuTmeyk/Tu2PUBL … Xj8/s1600/4.png

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 19 of 57, by RacoonRider

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Voodoo3! Great pick, no doubt best of what is at hand.

I would consider either that or an nvidia card, something like TNT2 or Ti200, paired with 1-2 V2. But V3 would do the same job perfectly. And it's PCI, which is a huge benefit for SS7, AGP is far from being its strong point.