You'd have to use overlay software or configure the drive according to BIOS limits (using Seatools), but it can definitely work.

yes a drive overlay software would be necessary for that type of machine.

as for the type of drive, generally speaking an IDE drive is more than enough , with SATA you have to use adapters , though they will be more reliable in general (as even the newest IDE drives are going to be almost a decade old).

the other option is to go with a CF card of some kind, that can also work well since these machines really wont need more than 2-4GB at best.

The CF would be interesting. Are there any recommendations what could be used?

And also if there are SATA to IDE adapters that work well, I would like to know. Instead of storing lots of old IDE hard drives, I could buy some adapters and use them when needed later.

How well do those SATA converters work ? Do they cause any significant latency ?
I've used CF cards for my DOS machines so far and they worked fine for me, but I'm curious nevertheless.

CF is the best solution when normal ide drives can't be found as they are basically IDE ssds however the adapters cripple their speed to ata 33 which is overkill for most dos rigs. Sata to ide does cripple performance but it comes down to the quality of the adapter if it is going to be a little or a lot. For a 486 box just go CF or normal ide and be done with it. Kinda stupid that people are putting sata drives in 486 rigs when there are still ide out there, you should still be able to find cheap 2.5 inch ide drives in Europe on the cheap unless they all went to China for recycling.

I often wonder why zero attention is payed to those drives but oh well.

Jo22 wrote:

How well do those SATA converters work ? Do they cause any significant latency ?
I've used CF cards for my DOS machines so far and they worked fine for me, but I'm curious nevertheless.

I cannot speak for PCs as I've never used SATA/IDE adapters there - but FWIW those adapters have worked very well for me in a different kind of older machine.

I have 2 Tivo DVRs, the original generation from 2000; they work with IDE drives, and since those spin 24/7 they fail after a number of years and need to be replaced. About 5 years ago it had become difficult to find replacement IDE drives so I experimented with using SATA drives with adapters instead.

Works very well. At least for my vintage Tivos.

There are extensive writeups on those adapters on the forums at tivocommunity.com in the upgrade section.

I've used all sorts of storage solutions. In the end these SATA to IDE adapters worked best for me!

I don't see them "crippling" performance, but this might depend on the adapter you have. I tested mine and they top out at around 90 Megabyte per second, which is heaps.

You can use SeaTools with Seagate and some other drives and configure the capacity to whatever you like.

Allow me to bring DOMs once more into the discussion...
Designed to be used as hard disks, native IDE connectivity, no need for a DDO if you buy the right size, cheap/affordable prices for up to 32GBs, industrial endurance, no controversial adapters included, can be bought brand-new, performance is more than adequate (intentionally avoiding getting into comparisons, they never end and are heavily system/opponent dependent).
I never understood why they never got the love they deserve 😉

They don't fall from trees (or from junk containers 😉)

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

I tested mine and they top out at around 90 Megabyte per second, which is heaps.

Sounds good. Could you name that adapter please?

konc wrote:

Allow me to bring DOMs once more into the discussion...
Designed to be used as hard disks, native IDE connectivity, no need for a DDO if you buy the right size, cheap/affordable prices for up to 32GBs, industrial endurance, no controversial adapters included, can be bought brand-new, performance is more than adequate (intentionally avoiding getting into comparisons, they never end and are heavily system/opponent dependent).
I never understood why they never got the love they deserve 😉

Yep those are cool and they are sometimes cheap plus some are made to last, lots of options that get passed over and this is one of them.

archsan wrote:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

I tested mine and they top out at around 90 Megabyte per second, which is heaps.

Sounds good. Could you name that adapter please?

Did a review a while ago: https://youtu.be/yp9AyMQ62js

I like using them because I get so many SATA drives, both 3.5" and well as 2.5" for free all the time. Lately a lot of 80 GB drives which are perfect for Windows 98 😀 I also like that I can insert them into a HDD dock. I know there are docks for IDE, I just don't have any. But I got heaps for SATA, most of them from external drives that I pulled apart.

For, IMO, ultimate storage drive check this out:

Ultimate retro hard drive? Seagate SSHD

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Did a review a while ago: https://youtu.be/yp9AyMQ62js

Thanks Phil!

Exactly, lots of spare SATA drives would be the main reason for many people I think. In my case, including original 2.5" drives from laptops too, since I'm uprading anything in sight to SSD. I'm hoping to use these drives with the help of SeaTools as suggested.

@konc re:IDE/PATA DOMs (which is NOT short for "Delayed onset muscle soreness" in case someone was wondering 🤣)

konc wrote:

Designed to be used as hard disks, native IDE connectivity, no need for a DDO if you buy the right size, cheap/affordable prices for up to 32GBs, industrial endurance, no controversial adapters included, can be bought brand-new, performance is more than adequate [...]

They're a very convenient solution I must agree. I would go with SLC over MLC myself, sacrificing size/price for supposedly better longevity. I'll try using these as boot drives along with adapted SATA drives for volume storage. Honestly they look much more convenient than CF cards (w/ adapter). Not to mention less pins to bend this way!

Also thanks to OP markot for asking -- just in time for me as well. 😀

OK, to anyone with IDE DOM experience: I just realized that some DOMs come in female 44-pin (like with 2.5" IDE HDD but in reverse), like this one I'm interested in:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apacer-2GB-DOM-Disk-O … DE/161939433124

So I guess I need something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-IDE-44-Pin-Male-t … m-/161128177235

A question that comes up is: do I need to worry about power connector/supply?

Or will I need a 2.5" HDD to 3.5" HDD IDE adapter with power connector (and then a male-to-male 44-pin gender changer for the DOM)?

P.S. I know there are DOMs with male 44-pin (KingSpec) but the question on power remains.

P.P.S. Or... okay, maybe I could look for some DOMs with direct 40-pin IDE connector ... but so far I have only found a female 40-pin one (and it comes with power connector):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kingspec-40pin … 2576992753.html
At least that left me just the gender changer though. One step less.

Hi archsan, I know a bit of DOMs. There are two kind of ATA DOMs, 40pin and 44pin.
The 44pin version gets its power from the IDE connector, while the 40pin version often needs a tiny 2pin cable which usually connects on the top.
Sometimes this cable is not included with the DOM. In this case you can built your own cable or buy it separately. The connector is a standard type, I think.
Another positive thing about DOMs is that they are made for embedded/industrial use and have got SLC memory and appear as "fixed",
so more sophisticated OSes like Windows NT can work. And they do also use the classic 512byte/per sector thing, I think.

Btw, there are also USB based DOMs, which could be useful for Super Socket 7 boxes.
They can be put directly on the USB header (v1.x/2.0) on the mainboard. (I think SATA based ones exists, aswell.)

archsan wrote:

OK, to anyone with IDE DOM experience: I just realized that some DOMs come in female 44-pin (like with 2.5" IDE HDD but in rever […]
Show full quote

OK, to anyone with IDE DOM experience: I just realized that some DOMs come in female 44-pin (like with 2.5" IDE HDD but in reverse), like this one I'm interested in:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apacer-2GB-DOM-Disk-O … DE/161939433124

So I guess I need something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-IDE-44-Pin-Male-t … m-/161128177235

A question that comes up is: do I need to worry about power connector/supply?

A lot, for example this specific combination won't work as 1) the 40pin connector won't provide any power 2) the pin is not even there. This adapter is intended for the opposite job, to connect a 40pin disk that you will power yourself.

archsan wrote:

P.P.S. Or... okay, maybe I could look for some DOMs with direct 40-pin IDE connector ... but so far I have only found a female 40-pin one (and it comes with power connector):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kingspec-40pin … 2576992753.html
At least that left me just the gender changer though. One step less.

Best thing to do. Why do you worry that much about the gender? If it's female, plug it directly on the IDE connector. If it's male, use a standard cable.
Searching for "kingspec dom 40 pin" on ebay returns a lot of results,

I have used a lot of different solutions on old computers. SCSI, CF-Card, Sata+converter, Pata and so on.
SCSI are a different ballgame, and need a bit more attention. Not that they are that hard to use.
They just need a bit more attention when setting things up. In other words, you need more time configuring.

CF cards are nice. They work well, yet they have limitations. As someone is describing. They have a speed barrier.
They are not really a modern SSD, so you need to put them into something that do not swap.
MS-Dos version 3.3 to 6.22 are such a kind of operating system that I am thinking about.
They run bitching fast and stable on a 486dx33 system with MS-Dos-6.22 installed.

PATA drives and SATA drives are more or less in the same league. As I see no difference in performance on a
normal useage. Shure benching those two technologies tell a different story. When using them on Win98se, and
using ATA-66/133 + SATA-2 drives on a SS7 system, you really do not feel the difference when gaming UT99.
There are however stuff like low grade SATA/PATA converters to keep in mind.
They are usually found amoung low priced china stuff, found on eBay. Well.... The same goes for CF converters.

What I have not tried, are SD-Card to PATA converters, and I have not tried one of those CF cards that are
basically a SD-card to CF-card converter. Yes.... They are out there, as I have seen them cheap on eBay.

Jo22 and konc, thanks! I soon figured out about the power connection. No dedicated power pins on the 40-pin IDE connection of course. 😊

konc wrote:

Why do you worry that much about the gender? If it's female, plug it directly on the IDE connector. If it's male, use a standard cable.

Well, most boards I'm going to use these on have only 2 IDE ports, and on some I might be using 2~3 disk drives (incl. 2 separate boot drives for easy switching) plus optic drives. But for quick testing purposes, direct plugging is enough.

Searching for "kingspec dom 40 pin" on ebay returns a lot of results,

Right, even though now I'm not so sure about the one I linked above in terms of being pure "SLC" or not though, or even an MLC part listed as SLC, as I have found another seller who listed the same part/model number as MLC. Another person on vcfed had the same question.

OK that's all for here -- I think DOM should have its own thread since OP was asking about harddrives.

@archsan Glad we could help! 😁
Yeah, the 40/44pin thing has caused confusion for ages. ^^
You're right, the 40pin connector doesn't carry power like the 44pin does.
Some adapters do use nifty tricks, though. 5v can be "snatched" via IDE pin 20 (the key pin).
As you can guess, this doesn't always work. It depends on your mainboard and you also need a cable with all holes.
So as a rule of thumb: If your DOM has a power connector, it also requires a cable.

And thanks for the thread at vcfed.org! It was nice to read! I didn't know they made DOMs THAT big (8GiB) - When I used them, 512MiB were usually the max..
I think part of their confusion is also caused by the fact that MLC can be made to act as SLC (multiple cells carry the same logical values).
And if you're familar with painting (any artists here ?), just think of a colour palette in a painting program or a GIF file.
You can use up to 256 colours, but these colours you choose don't have to be all different.
If you like, you can have the first 128 entries of them filled with white and the other 128 with black.

PS: I've attached a photo of one of my CF adapters for you guys, because this model has the pin-20 feature.
But don't get me wrong, I don't post that pic "to show it off". 😅 In fact, I got it by accident and I'm not proud of it whatsoever.
I mainly use this thing for testing purposes only ('cause it has DMA lines and build quality is okey-dokey).
For my eletronics projects I use several types, even the simplest ones (those without DMA are fine for older DOS machines).