First post, by PhilsComputerLab
- Rank
- l33t++
Yes I know, this topic has been discussed frequently, but everyone here is on their own retro journey of discovery, and this is mine 😊
I started off with an AOpen AX59Pro, 128 MB stick of PC133 SDRAM, AMD K6-III+ 400 overclocked to 550 MHz and wanted to check out a massive range of graphics cards to find out the limits of the systems and answer many questions such as:
- Is Nvidia or 3dfx better?
- 3dfx cards are often mentioned to have less issues with SS7 platforms and have AMD optimised drivers
- What about using newer graphics cards for eye candy?
- Does TnL in newer GPUs help?
- What cards are cheap and plentyful and therefore good picks
- What cards are harder to find, cost more, and are they worth getting?
- Are there differences with newer drivers?
- Does the Sound Card have an impact on performance, and what Sound Card is "faster"?
And many more similar questions.
Nvidia
Now I did all the 3dfx benchmarks with the AOpen motherboard, but then ran into issues with Nvidia cards. Games would lock the machine, I had blue screens, white screens and no luck. I got great help from here, especially Brostenen and tried a range of recommended tips such as:
- Disabling AGP 2x in the BIOS
- Setting AGP aperture size to 4 MB
- Changing the Wait State AGP options
- Installing older 4 in 1 VIA chipset drivers
- Enabling the Nvidia SS7 compatibility registry tweak
- PCI latency driver
- Using older Nvidia drivers and so on
Still, no dice, so I moved to another board from DFI, also with the VIA chipset. It's the DFI K6XV3+/66!
That board worked better, but I also had issues. Especially some sort of pausing issue, with the machine pausing for seconds, then working again. Int the end, I had the best stability by not installing any chipset drivers, just Windows 98, graphics drivers, DirectX and that's it. So maybe this works for you also.
So, because I had issues with Nvidia cards, I now wanted to benchmark them first and get the results ticked off.
I used the following cards:
- TNT
- TNT2 M64
- TNT2 Pro
- GeForce 256
- GeForce2 MX 400
- Quadro 2 Pro
- GeForce3 Ti 200
- GeForce4 MX 460
- GeForce4 Ti 4200
8.05 driver for TNT, TNT2, 256 DDR and GeForce2
23.11 driver for GeForce3 Ti 200
40.72 GeForce4 MX 460, GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8x
I might have used an older driver for the MX 460, because that card came out earlier, the Ti 4200 with AGP 8x is newer, BUT I honestly can't remember. In the benchmarks the MX is a bit faster, so I think I did use an older driver with the Ti 4200.
I re-started the entire benchmarking marathon 4 times, so maybe I got confused 😊
A video of all the charts and analysis will be online soon, but here is a bit of a write-up of each card:
TNT:
Works great, highly compatible with older games, but basic performance. Everything the TNT can do, the TNT2 can do better basically.
TNT2 M64:
In many cases close to the TNT, very cheap and easy to find. Type in TNT in eBay and you fill find a TON of results.
TNT2:
The proper TNT2. Significantly faster than the TNT and TNT2 M64. You can play GLQuake and Quake II very well at 1024 x 768 in 32 bit colours. Also very compatible with older games, the TNT range is supported by many games, often directly mentioned in the readme files.
A bit harder to find as you got to wade through the tons of TNT2 M64 cards.
GeForce256:
Nvidia's first GPU! Has fast memory and quite a step up in performance. However, being the first GeForce, this card is a bit of a collectors card. I believe you will most certainly have to look around a little and likely spend a bit more. Has TnL engine which works in some games and does indeed give a small performance boost. However, games that support TnL are often too demanding already to run wenn on the SS7 platform.
GeForce2:
Especiall the MX range should be easy to find. There is the regular MX and the MX-400, both offer decent performance. Avoid the MX 200, it has lower memory performance. I believe these are some of the first cards with DVI interface, something that can come in handy in the future.
Quadro2 Pro:
Workstation card. Built very well, looks gorgeous and can often be found for less than the GeForce equivalent.
GeForce 3:
The Ti 200 I have is the slowest. These cards bring fast AA to the table. Newer drivers offer more AA and AF options which these cards can take advantage. However, being a DX8 cards, I can't help but see this more in a early Windows XP machine. Also you might as well got for the GeForce4 at this point.
GeForce 4:
Even better and AA and high resolutions.
Game compatibility
I ran into two games that break on GeForce256 and newer. Incoming and Shogo. Incoming has corrupt HUG graphics, and Shogo some weird screen flickering issue. In general most games will run just fine on the newer cards, but not all of them will. So for best compatibility stick with a TNT or TNT2 type card.
Budget cards
TNT2 M64, GF2 MX and GF4 MX type cards are the cheapest and easiest to find. If you're on a budget, start with these. While the TNT2 M64 offers limited performance for newer games, it is excellent for anything a bit older.
I do believe I chose games and benchmarks that are a bit too modern. But I had real issues finding more appropriate games with benchmark features. The SS7 platform is great at bridging the gap between DOS and early 3D Windows games: Incoming, Shadows of the Empire, Forsaken, Turok, all of these games run great on the M64.
Best card
If I had to recommend a single card, I would recommend the TNT2. This card is very compatible, has fantastic image with 32 bit colours, and offers performance fast enough for newer games. It is a bit harder to find, but worst case just go with a M64 and see if it works for you, they are dirt cheap.
Very soon!
A range of 3dfx cards! Often the go-to cards for Super Socket 7. Can't wait 😀
Now about other cards, I want to check out a few ATI cards, but I doubt I have the time to test exotic cards. This project has been much more time consuming that I thought it would be 😵
Nvidia video with benchmark results and analysis
3dfx
Now it's time to check out some cards from 3dfx! They often get recommended for Super Socket 7. It is said that the drivers are quite optimized for the K6 and that compatibility is good. Let's find out!
The cards:
Elsa Banshee:
An interesting card. Based on the Voodoo 2 DNA, but with one TMU disabled. This card performs faster in single texture games compared to a V2, but slower in multi texture games such as Quake II. It is clocked a bit higher, mine has the core and memory at 100 MHz. 16 MB of video memory. This is a proper 2D+3D card, the VGA output is excellent and it has that "22 bit" output filter which helps make old 16 bit games look a bit nicer.
Velocity 100:
A gimped Voodoo 3 2000. It has half the memory, only 8 MB and for OpenGL and Glide (but not for Direct3D), it has one TMU disabled. However this can be easily enabled through a registry setting 😀 Fully enabled, this card performs on the level of Voodoo 2 in SLI.
Voodoo 3 3500 Compaq edition:
A real classic, many of us have this card. It is clocked quite high and does generate a lot of heat. I recommend adding a fan onto the card, there are lots of mods floating around. All these cards, including the V3, are 16 bit only and this fact will often determine what card is best for your needs.
Voodoo 4:
Some call it the card that the V3 should have been. It adds 32 bit colour support, but 16 but colour performance is still on the level of a V3. It can also do 2x AA brute force style using super sampling.
Voodoo 5:
The fastest Voodoo card. Can do 4x AA and offers plenty of performance, even at high resolutions. Doesn't have TnL like the GeForce256, so on a slow CPU such as the K6, this actually makes a difference.
Video with benchmark results and analysis
Lots of charts and analysis to digest. First up I am comparing the individual Voodoo cards amongst each other, then we will take a look how they compare against the Nvidia cards!
My take:
Banshee: Cool card. If you can get it for cheap, it's a good start. But limited performance.
Velocity 100. With enabled TMU on the level of V2 SLI, but with nicer image quality and full OpenGL support. Only 8 MB memory, so that could be an issue.
V3. IMO the best Voodoo card for SS7. In 16 bit, that's all this cards can do, it outperforms the TNT2 and these cards are very compatible with SS7 hardware as well as games. Plus you get the Glide factor.
V4 and V5. IMO I can't recommend them. 32 bit colours are nice, but so is Nvidia, plus with Nvidia you can go with a GF4 MX and use AA and AF for a fraction of the price for a V5.
TNT2 vs 3dfx:
Both cards are awesome. But, this is about what is best for SS7, and although the TNT2 has 32 bit colour support, many such games are not running well on a SS7 machine. For example Expendable, Drakan, Quake III and so on. There are however a lot more, older games, that are 16 bit colours only or support the Glide engine. Plus you get excellent compatibility with SS7 motherboards, avoid the AGP issues and 16 bit games look nicer because of the V3 "22 bit" colour filter. Compatibility with old games is also excellent and there is almost no reason to use older drivers or try different drivers like with Nvidia.
So for the time being: V3 is my top pick 😀
Very soon we will look at ATI and maybe some other cards!
Latest charts!
