HI guys.
I own GUS Classic, GUS MAX and GUS Synergy ViperMAX (aka Ultrasound Extreme).
Which one is the best for games? What real difference is between GUS Classic and GUS MAX/Extreme? How exact is SBPro emulation and OPL3 synthesis on GUS Extreme (ES161688F chip)? It seems to me the same. Can somebody post the exact specs to each card? Thanks.
A GUS classic is the 'standard' card, with only the GF1 synthesizer, and limited 8-bit recording.
A GUS MAX is a GUS Classic with a stereo 16-bit codec on it, capable of recording and playback up to 48 KHz (this was also available as an option board for the Classic).
A GUS Extreme is a GUS Classic and an ESS AudioDrive on a single card.
There are topics on OPL3 clones and their accuracy elsewhere. So just look for the ESS AudioDrive comparisons. In my opinion it's quite good. Much better than the SBOS solution on GUS Classic and MAX anyway.
OK. GUS Classic is a 16-bit/44 Khz card. GUS MAX is 48 KHz card. Are some capable games which use 48 KHz playback or this playback works only under Windows? Is a chip CS4231 used for GUS supported games or this is only for SB emulation?
wrote:OK. GUS Classic is a 16-bit/44 Khz card. GUS MAX is 48 KHz card.
It's not quite that simple.
The GUS Classic only has a GF1 chip, which is a hardware mixing device, basically a RAM-based wavetable synthesizer.
It doesn't actually have a regular DAC at all (which also means it's poorly supported in Windows for example, which expects a simple mono or stereo DAC, where the GUS has to play sound through its synthesizer).
Best-case you get 16-bit 44 KHz out of the synthesizer. However, when you use more than 14 channels, the mixing rate goes down. It can do 32 channels maximum, at which point it is about 19 KHz.
Also, best-case you get 16-bit samples, but when the RAM gets full, samples may get reduced to 8-bit to fit them in memory.
wrote:Are some capable games which use 48 KHz playback or this playback works only under Windows? Is a chip CS4231 used for GUS supported games or this is only for SB emulation?
I don't know of any games that use the GUS MAX DAC. It is also not used for SB emulation. SBOS uses the GF1 synth.
It can be used in Windows, and it's more compatible than using the GF1.
Thank you. And is any game which uses of advantages of GUS MAX or all games sound the same on GUS Classic/Extreme or GUS MAX?
I think there are some games that directly supports the GUS Max. In such a case, it acually uses the Windows Sound System (WSS) "mode" that is built into the CS4231 chip.
However, since the GUS Max doesn't use the standard WSS ports, game developers just rerouted the sound playback via the GUS Max's non standard ports.
So, techncially, games that supports the GUS Max, actually uses WSS for digital sound playback. There is no direct Sound Blaster support built into the CS4231 chip.
Come to think of it, I wonder why not more game developers directly supported the Windows Sound System under DOS, since most sound cards had either the AD1848 or CS4231 codec chip onboard and therefore had Windows Sound System compatiblity. That would have negated the need to directly support the Sound Blaster standard.
wrote:Come to think of it, I wonder why not more game developers directly supported the Windows Sound System under DOS, since most sound cards had either the AD1848 or CS4231 codec chip onboard and therefore had Windows Sound System compatiblity. That would have negated the need to directly support the Sound Blaster standard.
I think developers looked at it from the opposite angle:
The Sound Blaster was the de-facto standard, being around the longest, and most widespread. Most other cards were SB-compatible anyway, including the WSS. SBs were not WSS-compatible though. So you had to support SB anyway. Supporting other, more obscure cards, such as the WSS was considered optional.
wrote:I think developers looked at it from the opposite angle:
The Sound Blaster was the de-facto standard, being around the longest, and most widespread. Most other cards were SB-compatible anyway, including the WSS. SBs were not WSS-compatible though. So you had to support SB anyway. Supporting other, more obscure cards, such as the WSS was considered optional.
Yes, that makes sense.
However, considering that most sound cards after 1992 were full 16-bit cards, but only supported 8-bit Sound Blaster "modes", whereas the Windows Sound System offered full 16-bit stereo playback, it would have been nice if it was more widely supported by developers (much like the Pro Audio Spectrum and later on the Ensoniq range of cards).
wrote:Yes, that makes sense.
However, considering that most sound cards after 1992 were full 16-bit cards, but only supported 8-bit Sound Blaster "modes", whereas the Windows Sound System offered full 16-bit stereo playback, it would have been nice if it was more widely supported by developers (much like the Pro Audio Spectrum and later on the Ensoniq range of cards).
Yea, the problem was that you had to have specific routines for every card. The same happened with SVGA. Most games stuck to regular VGA, or only supported a few SVGA cards.
This was the main problem that DirectX tried to solve, and I think it did a great job.
wrote:Maybe stupid question. Is WSS supported under pure DOS or only in Windows DOS prompts? WSS was released first for Windows 3.1. If WSS is only for pure DOS so GUS MAX must play the same like GUS Classic.
Despite its name, it is actually supported under both DOS and Windows (I recall the readme file of one Sierra game, the floppy version of Leisure Suit Larry 6, stating that it actually works better under DOS than under Windows).
Unfortunately, very few games directly supported the Windows Sound System under DOS.
wrote:wrote:Yes, that makes sense.
However, considering that most sound cards after 1992 were full 16-bit cards, but only supported 8-bit Sound Blaster "modes", whereas the Windows Sound System offered full 16-bit stereo playback, it would have been nice if it was more widely supported by developers (much like the Pro Audio Spectrum and later on the Ensoniq range of cards).Yea, the problem was that you had to have specific routines for every card. The same happened with SVGA. Most games stuck to regular VGA, or only supported a few SVGA cards.
This was the main problem that DirectX tried to solve, and I think it did a great job.
Isn't that why they introduced the "VBE" or VESA 1.0/2.0 standard for higher resolution cards (not the Vesal Local Bus itself)?
I recall that with games like Duke Nukem 3D, if your graphics card supported VESA 2.0 (or using UNIVBE), you could play at a higher resolution?
This a thread from bristlehog about games supporting the WSS.
Microsoft Windows Sound System standard support in DOS games
WSS FM synthesis s not fully supported and if there exists is FM synthesis played as 16-bit?
A familiar question about FM synthesis of AWE 32 CT-3980 sound card via CT-1747(OPL3) chip. Will play the FM synth on this 16-bit card (via 388 or 220) as 16-bit or 8-bit? Depends on a source of course. Or is FM synthesis always playable 8-bit? For example SB Pro 2/Aztech cards (meant Basic 16 and newer cards are 16-bit cards) will play FM synth as 8-bit because SB PRo 2 is an 8-bit card and Aztech cards supplied SB cards under MS-DOS only as 8-bit cards.
wrote:Isn't that why they introduced the "VBE" or VESA 1.0/2.0 standard for higher resolution cards (not the Vesal Local Bus itself)?
I recall that with games like Duke Nukem 3D, if your graphics card supported VESA 2.0 (or using UNIVBE), you could play at a higher resolution?
Yea, VBE also tried this, but it was never that successful. Support was quite buggy, and the API wasn't as powerful as DirectDraw.
wrote:WSS FM synthesis s not fully supported and if there exists is FM synthesis played as 16-bit?
On the original WSS there is a real OPL3 chip at the same address as on Adlib/SB cards, so it is fully compatible.
Not sure what you mean with 8-bit or 16-bit. Are you talking about the ISA slot, or about the DAC?
Neither matter. The OPL3 chip is connected to its own DAC, which works completely independently from the DAC for digital audio (otherwise you couldn't have sound effects and FM music at the same time obviously. The two analog signals are combined at the analog mixer stage).
The ISA slot also doesn't matter. You only need to send simple 8-bit commands to an OPL2/OPL3 chip. The original AdLib card with OPL2 was an 8-bit card, and later cards with OPL3 were designed to be fully backward compatible, so the FM-part still works the same as on the 8-bit AdLib. An SB Pro v2 has a 16-bit ISA connector, but it works fine in an 8-bit slot. The only thing that uses the 16-bit signals is the CD-ROM interface.
You could also drive a 16-bit DAC from an 8-bit ISA slot (similar to how 8-bit IDE controllers work, by grouping 16-bit transfers as 2 8-bit transfers). So I wouldn't be surprised if at least some cards with a 16-bit DAC can work in an 8-bit ISA slot.
Not sure what you mean with 8-bit or 16-bit. Are you talking about the ISA slot, or about the DAC?
I thought 16-bit sampling not the bus. Are OPL3 chips able to play 16-bit samples or only 8-bit? Or does exist hte games with 16-bit FM synthesis?
As I gave an example Aztech cards (meant Basic 16 and newer cards are 16-bit cards - sampling) and 16-bit for ISA bus too. But those Aztech cards are 16-bit (only under Windows) and they behave under MS-DOS as only as 8-bit cards maybe because of rights and licenses.
I asked about AWE 32 CT-3980 it is 16-bit card and how FM synthesis viap CT-1747 will be outputed? As 16-bit or 8-bit?
wrote:I thought 16-bit sampling not the bus. Are OPL3 chips able to play 16-bit samples or only 8-bit?
OPL3 is an FM synthesizer, it doesn't play samples. That's why there's a separate DAC on SB and compatible cards for samples (an SB is basically an AdLib + DAC, because the original AdLib only had the FM synthesizer, and wasn't very good at sound effects. The DAC was added mainly for sound effects and speech). I don't think you get what an FM synthesizer is, and what a DAC is.
Thank you for an explanation of that. I did not catch this
wrote:You only need to send simple 8-bit commands to an OPL2/OPL3 chip. The original AdLib card with OPL2 was an 8-bit card, and later cards with OPL3 were designed to be fully backward compatible, so the FM-part still works the same as on the 8-bit AdLib.
I want only know what signal is presenteted on a LINE OUT of a sound card when you play some game with FM synthesis. It should be always 8-bit and it does not matter if you use 8-bit or 16-bit card. Or is the signal resampled on 16-bit card like AWE 32 CT-3980 etc. from 8-bit to 16-bit?
wrote:I want only know what signal is presenteted on a LINE OUT of a sound card when you play some game with FM synthesis. It should be always 8-bit and it does not matter if you use 8-bit or 16-bit card. Or is the signal resampled on 16-bit card like AWE 32 CT-3980 etc. from 8-bit to 16-bit?
The line out is analog, not digital 😀
Anyway, the OPL3 is a bit 'special'. It outputs in a special floating point format, and requires a special DAC, like Yamaha's own YAC512. As you can tell from the datasheet: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/242b37 … 6804c9/M/YAC512
The SB Pro v2 uses this YAC512 for example, you can see the chip on the board (AdLib used the predecessor, YM3014B, paired with the OPL2).
It uses a 10-bit mantissa and 7-step exponent. So technically it has 10-bit accuracy internally, but since it is non-linear, it is equivalent with about 16-bit linear DAC.
People generally consider 'OPL3' to be the OPL3 synth chip itself, as well as the special DAC, and consider the whole as an analog circuit.
It's completely separate from the '8-bit' or '16-bit' digital sound as advertised with SB and SB16 cards and clones.
