James-F wrote:

Can you have a quick test with your AWE32 and return with a result to this thread?

I wish I had an AWE32... 😀 At this point I only have access to a SB16 and an AWE64. I misplaced my ESS688 and Vibra16 ages ago. Would have kept them better, had I known how much interest this tinkering and comparison will generate. 😉

I'm seriously considering acquiring a few of these bargain cards for my own testing. Then again, what can I possibly contribute to the vast information already available here? 😜

No need to acquire anything, a complete informational web page about the SB16/AWE32 bugs with sound samples and frequency analysis is being made as we speak. 😉
It will include information about DMA Bugs, MPU Bugs, OPL3, CR1747, CT1703 DACs, etc.. will be fully explained there, to help people decide if the SB16/AWE32 lives up to its hype.

dr_st wrote:

Sorry, that's not true. What you need is an FM synthesis chip. It does not have to be true OPL. Alternatives such as ESFM from ESS and CQM from Creative will perform the function of playing MIDI music. They will sound a bit different. The purists on this forum will tell you that they sound so horrible that your ears will bleed, but that is horseradish.

Preach it!

😁

James-F wrote:

No need to acquire anything, a complete informational web page about the SB16/AWE32 bugs with sound samples and frequency analysis is being made as we speak. 😉
It will include information about DMA Bugs, MPU Bugs, OPL3, CR1747, CT1703 DACs, etc.. will be fully explained there, to help people decide if the SB16/AWE32 lives up to its hype.

That is an awesome undertaking and I salute you. 😊

Gonna chime in here with a question since its relevant to the topic.

Ive got a SBpro2, SB16 2950 with wavetable, SB32 ct3600 with 2mb ram, and a awe64 ct4520. And am in the process of getting a ct1910 creative wave card with a ct2940 with yamaha chip.

For the purpose of dos/win9x gaming which of these, or which combination of these would be the most ideal?

goodtofufriday wrote:

Gonna chime in here with a question since its relevant to the topic.

Ive got a SBpro2, SB16 2950 with wavetable, SB32 ct3600 with 2mb ram, and a awe64 ct4520. And am in the process of getting a ct1910 creative wave card with a ct2940 with yamaha chip.

For the purpose of dos/win9x gaming which of these, or which combination of these would be the most ideal?

Probably the AWE64 or CT3600 for games without FM and SB Pro 2 or CT2940 for those with FM.

SB Pro is limited a little by how it colors digital sound, and some DOS games only support the highest sampling rates with newer cards.
The CT2940's light ringing is a pretty minor concern if you want OPL and decent digital audio in one (strictly preferable to the CT2950's clicking and lack of OPL), but it's one of the worst afflicted SB16's when it comes to MIDI bugs and it's obviously missing AWE features.
The CT3600 is the same chipset as the CT2940, AWE but no OPL, so the AWE64 is probably a little better for the assumed lack of ringing.
Hosting the CT1910 on either of CT2940 and CT3600 isn't perfect, but probably the way to go.

firage wrote:

Probably the AWE64 or CT3600 for games without FM and SB Pro 2 or CT2940 for those with FM. […]
Show full quote

goodtofufriday wrote:

Gonna chime in here with a question since its relevant to the topic.

Ive got a SBpro2, SB16 2950 with wavetable, SB32 ct3600 with 2mb ram, and a awe64 ct4520. And am in the process of getting a ct1910 creative wave card with a ct2940 with yamaha chip.

For the purpose of dos/win9x gaming which of these, or which combination of these would be the most ideal?

Probably the AWE64 or CT3600 for games without FM and SB Pro 2 or CT2940 for those with FM.

SB Pro is limited a little by how it colors digital sound, and some DOS games only support the highest sampling rates with newer cards.
The CT2940's light ringing is a pretty minor concern if you want OPL and decent digital audio in one (strictly preferable to the CT2950's clicking and lack of OPL), but it's one of the worst afflicted SB16's when it comes to MIDI bugs and it's obviously missing AWE features.
The CT3600 is the same chipset as the CT2940, AWE but no OPL, so the AWE64 is probably a little better for the assumed lack of ringing.
Hosting the CT1910 on either of CT2940 and CT3600 isn't perfect, but probably the way to go.

Are there any sb cards that have the wave header and dont have the midi bug? Seems like so far Ill go for the sbpro2 and awe64. I also do not have a 2950, my error. I have a 2290

dr_st wrote:

I can't argue with anyone who says that this and this sounds like such and such to them. After all, it's all very subjective. I just wish that the FM audiophiles on the forums, both real and phony, would not use such absolute terms (crap, garbage, ears bleed, complete mess, etc.) when describing the various OPL clones. It sends a false message.

Well... I could have used something like "I don't really like it" or something like that.
The reason for using "crap" or something like that, are just the way I say things.
And yes. Remembering how things used to sound like back in 1991/1995, I really
think that anything else than a Yamaha-OPL chip for Adlib, sounds like crap.
To me it is not the same, going for anything else, when gaming.
I did after all grew up on this standard, as I am born in 1976, and started to use
computers back in 1984. To me it is a mere question of nostalgia and nothing else.

dr_st wrote:

And you didn't think it important to make this distinction in your post? After all, most AWE32 cards, did not, as far as I know, have OPL chips/cores.

The first edition of AWE32, had a real OPL chip. Hence non-opl AWE32 cards being downsized
versions that are not really a true AWE32 card.
Not being a jerk here, when saying that my answer to that question is a no.

Have you tested any Yamaha YMF7x4 PCI cards to see if they filter better than the OPL-SAx cards by default?

This sorta discussion only serves to remind me why I hunted down an AWE32 CT2760 (early revision, CT1747 OPL3 + ASP/CSP) even after getting an AWE64 Gold, just because of all the insistence on real OPL3.

The only reason why I'm not using the AWE32 right now is that most of my cases literally can't hold that behemoth without modification; there's usually something hard drive cage-related getting in the way.

Nobody mentioned the single-cycle DMA bug before, though. Cripes, now it's either real OPL3 + ASP/CSP or better SNR + reasonable card length + S/PDIF that includes digital sounds + no single-cycle DMA clicking for me, at least if I want to keep a proper AWE synth card around.

All this compromising makes it too tempting to just drop the AWE cards altogether, Eradicator AWE enhancements be damned, and just go with the typical Aureal Vortex2 SB Pro emulation. I only play late DOS games on that system anyway.

So, what's the best card at hand here? AWE32 CT2760, AWE64 Gold, or don't bother wasting the ISA slot that I painstakingly set up a Pentium 4 EE box around just for the sake of a DOS-era sound card?

goodtofufriday wrote:

Are there any sb cards that have the wave header and dont have the midi bug? Seems like so far Ill go for the sbpro2 and awe64. I also do not have a 2950, my error. I have a 2290

The CT2290 isn't half bad. It's a good host for the CT1910 as it's free of most hanging note bugs, it's got an OPL3 core (one that's even slightly truer to an OPL3 than the 44 kHz sampling YMF289 and OPLSAx), and it should be fairly clean as it's got later version mixer and DAC, sometimes the same chips as on the AWE64. Its "Single-Cycle DMA" digital sound is plagued by the clicking variety of the SB16 bug, though.

NamelessPlayer wrote:

So, what's the best card at hand here? AWE32 CT2760, AWE64 Gold, or don't bother wasting the ISA slot that I painstakingly set up a Pentium 4 EE box around just for the sake of a DOS-era sound card?

Use DOSBox and fuhgeddaboudit. 🤣

Jorpho wrote:

NamelessPlayer wrote:

So, what's the best card at hand here? AWE32 CT2760, AWE64 Gold, or don't bother wasting the ISA slot that I painstakingly set up a Pentium 4 EE box around just for the sake of a DOS-era sound card?

Use DOSBox and fuhgeddaboudit. 🤣

That's what I do for early DOS games anyway. The SVN-Daum fork even has built-in MT-32 and Ultrasound emulation!

But the ASP/CSP utilized by TFX and whatever AWE SoundFont trickery Eradicator uses still aren't implemented in any DOSBox build to my knowledge, which is why I went to the trouble of getting real hardware to begin with. I might be able to fudge the latter by loading the effect SoundFonts in one of my X-Fi MIDI synth banks and directing DOSBox to that, but I never actually did get around to attempting that.

Sound FX 2000 (sort-of an alternative to VDMSound) of and PCem both apparently support the AWE, for what it's worth.